Which character do you think has the most plot armor?

[Arrashi]

Easily Jaina, she is a poster girl after all.

[schwarzkopf]

Azeroth obviously - if it dies, there is no WoW.

[Cazz17]

Uhh.... We do I guess? Our characters have cannonally died during the Argus encounter, and if your character's a DK, they've died too

And fighting LK too

[Combatbutler]

Azeroth obviously - if it dies, there is no WoW.

All you have to do is relocate, Azeroth could be destroyed much like Draenor once was with the races fleeing before the end of their world to a new one. Though it would have massive ramifications, since the titan in it was the sole hope for the physical universe.

[TheRevenantHero]

Anduin, hands down.

[Zendhal The Black]

Anduins at least got his bones crushed by divine bell...

Suevanas on the other hand fought Lich King and didn't even get hit once

[Aucald]

I would argue the PC should be exempt due to game mechanics - there's no real way for them to lose in the general sense as the game itself more or less presupposes their ultimate victory in terms of the story. They may suffer the occasional setback, but they'll always ultimately overcome their enemy (otherwise the game is rendered unwinnable).

[Moonrage]

Almost no mention of Nathanos so far? The High Priestess of Elune and the Archdruid of Azeroth couldn't take him down. Makes very little sense.

[schwarzkopf]

All you have to do is relocate,

But it would no longer be WoW

You know The WORLD of WARCRAFT is Azeroth

[Super Dickmann]

The PC isn't on par with Anduin in their relative role though. Because Anduin is the same relative class champion level as the player, and even if we pretend that being hit by a giant bell and surviving is remotely comparable to things like human beings being sprayed directly with the blight and casually shrugging it off, fighting five-story tall giants made of solid stone and blocking their attacks with shields, or riding on the back of a dragon aspect who puts off so much heat and energy, he melted/seared a giant scar through the landscape--the sheer frequency makes the two incomparable. Yes, Anduin survived his close calls and maybe they were like the player's plot armor encounters, but the player has gone through literally hundreds of situations where a champion fighter, or even one of the strongest members of a given class or race, should have been dead, full stop.

The mere fact that Anduin was briefly injured and out of commission for months should tell you exactly how absurd this comparison is. Because the player takes hits like those on a day to day basis, and the absolute worst that has ever happened is that they get knocked out, wake up minutes/hours later and dust themselves off 100% completely unscratched and ready to immediately go back to fighting.

I already addressed this up top, so I'll just quote myself rather than waste time reiterating things too much:

Anduin surviving an evil bell dropping on him with zero consequence is stupid, ditto him being able to wreck trained warriors in one hit despite physical inexperienced being his whole shtick. But if Sargeras had a bell dropped on him or chopped down some footmen, that'd not just be unremarkable, it'd be retarded to even bring it up. Some random imp, by virtue of possessing a demonic soul will always go back to the Twisting Nether and respawn. Does that mean that Daglop has more plot armor than Sylvanas or Jaina? Of course not. What matters is how they stack up relative to their role - the PC, relative to his role, is about on par with Anduin, but due to his particulars, is more questionable.

The PC is among the, if not the most powerful examples of his class, capable of superhuman feats. To have him be able to take hits from much stronger dudes is par for the course, because it's within the realms of the expected. As presented to us, the PC doing what he does is in line with his abilities. We are told that Anduin is comparatively average as a fighter and the Bell is a tool of evil that'll scar him, but he recovers harmlessly and he takes out stronger warriors with ease. In one cases, the standard produces a predictable result, in the other, with Anduin, it doesn't because that'd disrupt the plot.

Again, they do not need to retcon the Anduin future vision, because a vision is all it is, and he could very well die anytime before it, making it false or of a different potential outcome, or anytime after it. The PC will never die. Not in any situation where they aren't back within seconds. I.e. "but he's very plot armored FOR AN NPC", should tell you that these two things are not equal. PCs are so plot armored that you are having to come up with "relative" scales for the two so that you can even place them in the same competition. But even in that highly suspect method of scaling, he's still not coming out on top, because he HAS been harmed and he CAN die. If you are comparing the amount two things are untouchable, and one is "literally cannot being touched" and the other is "has only been touched a bit, but could be touched more at any point" the winner is very clear.

I'm glad you've actually read the above, but I'm less glad that you went for this angle anyway, since we'll be running in circles. Of course scales are different depending on the character - everything is judged by its established rules, not by the rules of another. A PC can't die because of gameplay reasons irrespective of what happens. An NPC with an in-story means of protection, like a demon or Sylvanas with her Val'kyrs, can be killed, but there's a story device to explain their reappearance. Plot armor is when a character should by all rights be killed or suffer some lasting harm, but doesn't, which is where Anduin occupies. Sure, Anduin can hypothetically be killed by a boulder or a large rock or an ogre or what have you, but he hasn't and he won't. And whereas the PC can take magnitudes more physical damage and even be killed, to then come back because of those gameplay requirements, nothing prevents Anduin from suffering these consequences, but he doesn't anyway. If one literally can't experience these consequences without unraveling the medium and so is pointless to talk about in that respect and the other can, but doesn't anyway, then we know who's the more galling candidate because we aren't arguing against the crux of the game.

And even if we were, it's a flash-forward, not a vision, one recently edited as well. Until it's contradicted, it's canon. They can change it or the game can end before we ever reach that point, at which step the PC will vanish from all lore given that he's a piece of shorthand more than he is a character.

For clarity, I'm not even talking about your generic, "release and ress" deaths, which are simply a facet of this being a video game. I'm pointing out that the PC has died multiples IN CANON, i.e. quests, encounters, etc. And is always brought back. You are killed by Arthas and plot armored back to life because apparently Terenas is somehow able to mass ress despite being dead himself. You die to Argus but are brought back by Eonar. Player DHs are strong enough to kill themselves opening a portal and come back. Warriors die in their class hall opening but Odyn just decides that's not going to happen and sends a Val'kyr to casually prevent that death. You die for questlines in Tanaris, Azshara, Grizzly Hills, MC attunement and Uuna. The PC isn't just deathless by virtue of it being a video game, they are narratively much more capable of coming back to life than normal mortals.

The PC dying but being raised because there's people there with an interest and an ability to raise him doesn't constitute plot armor any more than Daglop coming back to life from the Nether is plot armor. Resurrection or necromancy or what have you doesn't, provided it doesn't break established rules to bring him back. Odyn, a guy who's whole shtick is picking up powerful warriors with an established hold on the afterlife bringing back an established warrior doesn't break any rules. A demon hunter, himself a demon, being able to come back like demons is not contradictory, etc. Plot armor is the Alliance heroes going into the Lordaeron throne room and not doing anything while Sylvanas monologues, or Malfurion not being killed as the PC sits there and does nothing to either finish him off or finish Sylvanas off depending on their faction allegiance. It's when a consequence should happen and there's no reason for it not to happen in-story, but it doesn't materialize anyway because it'd break what the writer wants to do.

Anduin is depicted as heroic despite mistakes, the PC has even outright villainy erased into heroism. The fact that occasionally a person (who almost always ends up being either evil, dead, or both; Xe'ra, Nathanos, Staghelm) claims the PC has done wrong doesn't change that they are exalted by 99.9999% of the other NPCs they meet, despite anything they do, even more than the literal king of a faction. The fact is, even the game's story itself doesn't agree with people like Xe'ra, because Illidan's forces were actively antagonizing the forces of good on Outland, including the NAARU THEMSELVES, who led the attack on Black Temple, and the only reason why Illidan was able to fulfil his destiny was by virtue of the PC having delayed his plans so that instead of the Illidari all being slaughtered, he had the Army of Light with him and the insanely plot armored PCs there to just casually mow their way through the Legion's own HQ without a scratch, and Magni around to help with the Titan shit so that Sargeras could actually be dealt with.

I mean, we have done more than any of the faction leaders, I didn't see any of those lazy pricks except Thrall while we were fighting raid bosses, we should be getting more recognition than a teenager who's inexplicably supported in hereditary succession by leaders who are thousands of years old. As for being wrong - the entire Horde story, regardless of which side you take, has the PC support illogical positions in service of their enemy in order to keep the plot rolling and at the end is excoriated in one fashion or another - by Saurfang saying there's no honor and the Horde has been fucked from Day 1 or by Sylvanas ree-ing out. These things are mostly token, that's all true, but they are still laid on the PC himself. This doesn't happen with Anduin, at least not by those who aren't exclusively evil and/or cast as wrong. I will give you that the PCs are Mary Sues, but that's a blow lessened by how the PC barely even exists and has no set positions on anything, seeming to lose their recognition, position, allegiance and even abilities depending on the patch.

I will give you though that if we set aside the gameplay necessities, the PC would be an extremely galling character, but that's not the situation we live in - the PC is barely a character at all, given that he's never referenced in any out of game media and at least where BFA and Legion is preferred, the plot could proceed perfectly well without his presence.

[Xilurm]

Sylvanas, with Nathanos in second imo.

[UhmHi]

Sylvanas and/or Nathanos. Can't wait for either or both to bite it, although chances are Sylvanas will be exiled or something like that.

[Combatbutler]

But it would no longer be WoW

You know The WORLD of WARCRAFT is Azeroth

There is no war without the main actors, the world is just a stage and can be changed.

[schwarzkopf]

There is no war without the main actors,

True - but there will still be a war without ONE of the actors, unless that actor is the WORLD in which the WAR occurs.

[Grazrug]

None of these. It is Jaina who has the biggest plot armor. Plot armor and alliance bais kept her alive during her own raid fight. That she didn't die during said raid fight shows how much alliance biased blizzard truly is.

[Florena]

The PC wins by default because whatever we do we 'cannot' die and stay dead or else the game just ends. No NPC has that level of plot armor.

[Satelliteyears0o]

Our characters, we will never die.

[Selastan]

The player, obviously. Honestly shouldn't have been included, it's an unfair example.

Other than that, Sylvanas. 'Plot Armor' exists when the writer has a clear end game for the character, and it appears Sylvanas' story was written several arcs in advance. Blizzard has plans for her to drive the story forward, and until her arc ends she is immortal.

[Powerogue]

Not actually voting Sylvanas, mainly because they have made a point to say that all the powers she has from the Shadowlands can be taken away.

She dies in SL, calling it.

Not sure why Mekkatorque wasn't on there, with the literal Proto-Layered Optimal Titan armor.

[Kaleredar]

cenarion circle literraly gave zero fuck about staghelm's world tree, like the aspects until the nelf pc discovered some nightmare corruption and so it needed to be enchanted by them. not even malfurion liked the tree...

Well I think they'd probably have some things to say about the Horde trying to kill... you know, Malfurion, one of the main leaders of the cenarion circle.

lul? the only reason because sylvanas could use nathanos' nephew was because some argent crusaders started to murder forsakens and the boy was one of them...

Her increasing actions towards acting like the Lich King, toying with necromantic magic, using the blight, and killing and raising innocent people would have been more than enough to raise their condmenation, especially when Fordring was in charge.

even the ebon blade know how much a failure koltira was, and still they attacked the forsaken to retrieve it when he was somewhat necessary

Yeah, and then didn't think to pursue Sylvanas attempting to convert one of their knights any more than that, in addition to her acting more and more like Arthas.

we literally had all legion and even the chronicles to understand how much crazy odyn is...

...which makes it even more conspicuous that Odyn suddenly "wouldn't care" that sylvanas effectively betrayed him to Helya.

and lol? what deus ex happened during the plaguelands civil wars?

That was when Blizzard had a much more wholistic sense of writing, rather than making Sylvanas some all-powerful mary sue character.

gilneas conquest?

The entirety of the horde forces being routed, their airship destroyed, Sylvanas personally being sent running and then the worgen suddenly losing and having to evacuate the entire nation "because the blight."

And then, for some reason, Gilneas just never being revisited in any meaningful way. Ever.

Also, the third time sylvanas died and was just brought back to life.

battle for andorhal?

The horde forces being roundly defeated and being on the verge of losing, but then suddenly winning because "the val'kyr that sylvanas only has a limited number of" swooping in from nowhere to win them the day.

The alliance thorns war? or undercity siege? i mean, the last 3 had effectively deus ex,

first kolthira convenientely forgotting to be a fucking violence addicted dk,

Not how Death Knights work.

then we had elune lobotomizing saurfang, and the last has so many of them for the alliance that is annoying even only remember them.

You complain about Jaina having a boat... what about the alliance not having the giant fucking inter-dimensional spaceship able to rein down indiscriminate destruction so heavy the burning legion couldn't stand up to it as it assaulted their high command?

Where was that in the fight against Undercity?

Let's also not forget about the alliance emerging roundly victorious in the war of thorns, the conflict in Arathi, and in the siege of dazar'alor but suddenly "having almost too few to fight" against Sylvanas despite ALSO having the combined forces of the Horde rebels fighting along with them.


It's clear they have to curtail any plausible semblance of force that would be brought against her to try and maintain her as some "credible and dangerous entity." It's not even remotely close with any other major lore character.