Incredibly disappointed with class balancing so far

[Grimbold21]

We call it Covenant balancing now.

[Konthos]

Ease up on the glue mate. It's not good for you.

You are pretty much the definition of "i have nothing to say so ill say something dumb" lmao

[Kaneiac]

Wrath and Cata were MILES ahead and better of what we have now in terms of balance. Period.

Cata maybe, but not Wrath. Ret and DKs were horribly overpowered on launch, and there were massive discrepancies in DPS as the expansion went on. Check out ICC dps logs and compare enhancement to warriors, and then to rogues

[Jastall]

Who said any expansion was perfectly balanced? Try to stay on target with what is being discussed if you are going to interject yourself into an argument please.

Wrath and Cata were MILES ahead and better of what we have now in terms of balance. Period.

- - - Updated - - -



See above with wrath/cata comment.

Ye, Cata with the raid full of Feral Druids killing Nefarian, or stacking the shit out of Arcane mages w/staff to kill Spine early in DS, to only use two examples. And as someone said, DPS discrepancies that makes the 20-30% seen most of the time from very top to very bottom since WoD look like Starcraft 1 tier balance. Or how about Shadowmourne making plate DPS (Arms especially) wreck insane amount of faces in PvP. But I'm sure that's not borrowed power and doesn't ruin class balance because reasons.

You might want to actually look up what happened back then rather than relying on hearsay or selective memory. Balance was absolutely shit tier in Cata and especially Wrath, and even worse in vanilla/TBC even if these can at least claim that it was by design, said design being really a really bad idea notwithstanding.

[infinitemeridian]

The game is more balanced these days than it has ever been. People here can't see the forest for the trees because if their spec isn't at the top or in the top 5, the game is "unbalanced".

To think that the game was somehow more balanced before WoD shows just how new you guys are to the game.

[LostLocket]

I wonder if the changes to loot mean that we will see raids last more than 2 weeks now. considering that there are no bonus rolls, less loot overall and mythic+ loot isn't as good as heroic raid loot it means that players won't be as high ilvl for Castle Nathria as they were for Ny'alotha (comparatively speaking). which means that mythic might be tuned for a lower ilvl than usual. or it might be tuned the same as always which will make it more difficult to complete

I actually think this will be one of the fastest clears since wrath naxx.

Nothing is balanced well and testing had bosses falling over that were scaled up to test phases...

There are 20-40% dps differences between classes of the same spec depending on convent choices (and all the things included in that conduits,leggo, soulbinds etc) and the raids seem tuned so you don't need your bis covenant to succeed unlike recent tiers requiring certain comps and strict builds.

I honestly see the raid getting utterly demolished by even late patch CE guilds much less method unless we see truly drastic changes in the coming month.

[Jastall]

I more meant excluding launch where DKs were broken. Ret was only broken for what a couple weeks at max? And even if you want to include those outliers this entire expansion has had classes being completely broken. When you can literally one-shot 10 people at once, when you can equip gems and do less damage then before because of hidden pvp scaling, when you have the same classes being ridiculously OP (similar to those DKs you mentioned earlier in wrath) for entire expansions, it starts to get a little silly.


Did wrath/cata have their problems/issues with balancing? Of course they did literally nobody said any different. But any problems those expansions had were just so much less than what is currently on live retail. The balance in today's game is an absolute joke

EDIT: and please don't think I'm here to just bash wow I love this game I say this shit with a heavy heart. I can't wait for shadowlands to finally come out so I can at least hope it gets better in the new end game at 60.



You can see how long I've been a member here, right? I've obviously been playing the game since the times I have mentioned. Also just read above I already answered your post before you even posted it.

Launch DKs don't count when they were OP like no class in BFA ever was until 3.2 if memory serves? Why then I suppose we can decide 8.3 Fire mages don't count as well, or Rextroy-esque shenanigans abusing PvP scaling (which is wonky shit, no arguments here) or Corruptions the latter of which were mostly fixed by Blizzard. It's easy to say the past was better balanced when you decide to exclude its most egregious imbalances, after all. And I suppose Shadowmourne doesn't count, or leggy staff users, that's not *gasp* borrowed power (scare chord) after all.

[LostLocket]

Launch DKs don't count when they were OP like no class in BFA ever was until 3.2 if memory serves? Why then I suppose we can decide 8.3 Fire mages don't count as well, or Rextroy-esque shenanigans abusing PvP scaling (which is wonky shit, no arguments here) or Corruptions the latter of which were mostly fixed by Blizzard. It's easy to say the past was better balanced when you decide to exclude its most egregious imbalances, after all. And I suppose Shadowmourne doesn't count, or leggy staff users, that's not *gasp* borrowed power (scare chord) after all.

I mean you can make that argument that one or two specs pulled ahead... the issue with sl is that the same class and same spec pulls ahead by roughly 20-40% depending on how well you min max your character and there doesn't seem anyway to stem that easily without gutting at least aspects of covenants.

If they wanted to add so many layers of power gain it honestly feels like they need another four months rather then four weeks to sort it. Never mind the maw seems utterly incomplete yet a source of very powerful currency it just feels like things didn't come together.

[Jastall]

I mean you can make that argument that one or two specs pulled ahead... the issue with sl is that the same class and same spec pulls ahead by roughly 20-40% depending on how well you min max your character and there doesn't seem anyway to stem that easily without gutting at least aspects of covenants.

If they wanted to add so many layers of power gain it honestly feels like they need another four months rather then four weeks to sort it. Never mind the maw seems utterly incomplete yet a source of very powerful currency it just feels like things didn't come together.

Tuning is often done in the last legs of the beta or during pre-patch, and even then the few weeks around launch are inevitably rife with balance issues which were way, way worse than a 20 or even 40% DPS split (exhibit A: 3.0 Ret before hotfix). I doubt Shadowlands will be different or won't have pretty glaring balance woes to be clear, but the part I had an issue with is the idea that gross imbalance wasn't a thing back then when it absolutely was, borrowed power (scare chord) or not.

[Spiffums]

curious of definition of balance in this case
is it

*All classes are capable and wanted for all forms of PVP and PVE and able to perform well in them

or

*MY class does 2% less dps than Class Y AGAIN DAMN YOU BLIZZARD YOU RUINED IT

I think we all wish all class/specs were within 2% of each other.

[Lindon]

You are pretty much the definition of "i have nothing to say so ill say something dumb" lmao

When you're talking to a caveman you have to use their language. Which is what I did.

Still I hope you ease of the glue. It can mess with your brain.

[Beefkow]

Class design has been shit since BFA because of the reasons we lose legiondaries and artifact weapons, which were the main core to our class design, which by the way is an epic fail concept to begin with. Sure some of them were passive and quite frankly un noticeable (unholy dk for example) with double doom and DT pet popping wounds.

Then that shit gets baked into talents and things really start to make sense and my character starts to feel dull and downgraded.

This "borrowed power" needs to stop, go back to when we got gear to modify our numbers, not our mechanics.

[Doffen]

The game is more balanced these days than it has ever been. People here can't see the forest for the trees because if their spec isn't at the top or in the top 5, the game is "unbalanced".

To think that the game was somehow more balanced before WoD shows just how new you guys are to the game.

Yup, sums it up nicely. Classes was never as balanced as they have been the last 4-5 years. Sure there are differences, but I really doubt they can get classes/specs closer than what it was in Legion/BfA. There are outliers on Shadowlands beta sure, but this was always the case before and during expansion launches.

Will blizzard make it perfect? No chance, but I don't think we can expect that either. I am not sure I would want that anyway. Nothing is more fun than crushing others on damage with a "lesser" spec.

[Malikath]

I love how the general MO of the trash is just to lie, blatantly and openly.

But to make a claim, you have to provide proof.
otherwise you're just spamming and trolling the thread, and should be reported as such.


anyways, on-topic, i think the covenants are wasting development time like the garrisons did in WoD, this is the same bait-and-switch scam they've been pulling since WoD, and with the current events i think the investors are about to get the rotor-router out after some people's bank-accounts soon once fraud and embezzlement claims start being levied.

[LostLocket]

Tuning is often done in the last legs of the beta or during pre-patch, and even then the few weeks around launch are inevitably rife with balance issues which were way, way worse than a 20 or even 40% DPS split (exhibit A: 3.0 Ret before hotfix). I doubt Shadowlands will be different or won't have pretty glaring balance woes to be clear, but the part I had an issue with is the idea that gross imbalance wasn't a thing back then when it absolutely was, borrowed power (scare chord) or not.

There was never perfect balance I can list nearly every tier from tbc to present to point that out. I am uncomfortable with how that balance seems to be spreading to be between two of the same class and specs though.

As for balancing... this is rough the only other expansion that had such broken systems so close to launch was bfa. I still am hoping for the best but i am preparing for the worst.

[Aggrophobic]

I love how the general MO of the trash is just to lie, blatantly and openly.

But to make a claim, you have to provide proof.
otherwise you're just spamming and trolling the thread, and should be reported as such.


anyways, on-topic, i think the covenants are wasting development time like the garrisons did in WoD, this is the same bait-and-switch scam they've been pulling since WoD, and with the current events i think the investors are about to get the rotor-router out after some people's bank-accounts soon once fraud and embezzlement claims start being levied.

You can sim yourself or look at logs.
The game is 100% broken and this time around you can't just respec out of the bad "talents" as it has a one week CD.

[shoegazing]

What? Blizzard has barely started doing any kind of tuning/balancing on the beta yet.

A lot of people mistaken refer to "balancing" when they actually mean "design"

I kind of wonder if it's a non-native English speaker thing, either that or people are just clueless

I see it all the time

[ketsui]

these threads always make me laugh, people still don't understand the definition of a beta. here is a little secret, shadowlands isn't released yet

[Ezyah]

"Don't worry, it's just Beta"

[orsraunia]

In my opinion, they want to finalize covenant abilities first, balance those and then look at the state of the classes and tweak numbers accordingly. Will they manage to do all this till launch? Ofc no.

Still, If they had tuned classes first, without having finalized covenant abilities, etc (as final as these can be anyway), every time they changed/tuned a covenant ability, they'd have to go back and tune classes again, which is counterproductive.