Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Zaydin]

The New York TImes got its hands on Trumps tax information and hoo boy, it explains why he has been fighting tooth and nail for years to hide his tax returns.

In 2016, he paid a whopping 750 dollars in federal income taxes. He paid the same amount in 2017. For 10 of the previous 15 years he paid no income tax at all because he claimed he lost more money than he made. He also has hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due.

[Zan15]

The New York TImes got its hands on Trumps tax information and hoo boy, it explains why he has been fighting tooth and nail for years to hide his tax returns.

In 2016, he paid a whopping 750 dollars in federal income taxes. He paid the same amount in 2017. For 10 of the previous 15 years he paid no income tax at all because he claimed he lost more money than he made. He also has hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due.

man either he's been pulling millions out of all these companies or he is the worst businessman around.

Remember these are not his personal taxes just his business related taxes but they give a clear picture why he is hiding his personal returns.

[Paranoid Android]

“Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the WH, he paid another $750. He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made” https://t.co/8vUofZIlJi

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/statu...517426696?s=19

So Trump is the broke, failure of a businessman that his losses are so tremendous he barely pays taxes. Another possibility is he is just taking advantage of the tax system.

I know Trumpkins, that your cult leader is so brilliant he takes advantage of the system. Again I always ask why do you cheer for someone who can have advantages that you will never have?

Also if we go with he was broke, Trump was sure making large investments and loans. I believed Trump spent $400 million in cash to by Turnberry in Scotland and other properties. Hmm, wonder how he got hold of the cash or bank backed loans?

[Breccia]

The New York TImes got its hands on Trumps tax information

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*deep breath*

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

- - - Updated - - -

Another possibility is he is just taking advantage of the tax system.

You know this is Trump. It could be both. Remember, we already saw one of his far earlier returns -- he lost so much money in one year, the losses could be spread out for a dog's lifespan. He could be broke, and using that being broke to break the system.

[Toppy]

Fake news!

[Elegiac]

man either he's been pulling millions out of all these companies or he is the worst businessman around.

Remember these are not his personal taxes just his business related taxes but they give a clear picture why he is hiding his personal returns.

I'd recommend giving the entire article a read because there are a lot of facets to how he's been abusing excessive business deductions in order to get out of paying taxes, particularly for transfers of wealth to people in his circle. For instance:

Examining the Trump Organization’s tax records, a curious pattern emerges: Between 2010 and 2018, Mr. Trump wrote off some $26 million in unexplained “consulting fees” as a business expense across nearly all of his projects.

In most cases the fees were roughly one-fifth of his income: In Azerbaijan, Mr. Trump collected $5 million on a hotel deal and reported $1.1 million in consulting fees, while in Dubai it was $3 million with a $630,000 fee, and so on.

Mysterious big payments in business deals can raise red flags, particularly in places where bribes or kickbacks to middlemen are routine. But there is no evidence that Mr. Trump, who mostly licenses his name to other people’s projects and is not involved in securing government approvals, has engaged in such practices.

Rather, there appears to be a closer-to-home explanation for at least some of the fees: Mr. Trump reduced his taxable income by treating a family member as a consultant, and then deducting the fee as a cost of doing business.

The “consultants” are not identified in the tax records. But evidence of this arrangement was gleaned by comparing the confidential tax records to the financial disclosures Ivanka Trump filed when she joined the White House staff in 2017. Ms. Trump reported receiving payments from a consulting company she co-owned, totaling $747,622, that exactly matched consulting fees claimed as tax deductions by the Trump Organization for hotel projects in Vancouver and Hawaii.

It honestly appears more that the entire Trump organization is less a business empire and more a gigantic tax evasion scheme.

[Belize]

The New York TImes got its hands on Trumps tax information and hoo boy, it explains why he has been fighting tooth and nail for years to hide his tax returns.

In 2016, he paid a whopping 750 dollars in federal income taxes. He paid the same amount in 2017. For 10 of the previous 15 years he paid no income tax at all because he claimed he lost more money than he made. He also has hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due.

He also ows 300 million to... Who in the next 4 years.

What country is he indebted to?

[Blur4stuff]

So Trump paid less in taxes than average working people. A supposed billionaire.

System is fucking broken even if you want to pretend Trump didn't break the law.

[Elegiac]

He also ows 300 million to... Who in the next 4 years.

What country is he indebted to?

The IRS - he is literally that much in debt to the US government.

[Breccia]

Fake news!

Actually this is an interesting point.

The NYTimes could, if for whatever reason they were so inclined, release 100% fake tax returns and basically dare Trump to sue them. In such a court case, Trump would have to prove they were wrong -- which, yes, would require his actual taxes.

I do not beleive the NYTimes would do this. I suppose it's possible someone could have leaked fake tax returns with this in mind, but, the NYTimes is not a rookie company and it'd have to be a serious long con to make this work.

[Zaydin]

Actually this is an interesting point.

The NYTimes could, if for whatever reason they were so inclined, release 100% fake tax returns and basically dare Trump to sue them. In such a court case, Trump would have to prove they were wrong -- which, yes, would require his actual taxes.

I do not beleive the NYTimes would do this. I suppose it's possible someone could have leaked fake tax returns with this in mind, but, the NYTimes is not a rookie company and it'd have to be a serious long con to make this work.

Trump is already calling it fake news.

Now here is the thing: if it is fake Trump could easily prove it is fake by releasing his tax returns. He won't, though.

[Elegiac]

Trump is already calling it fake news.

Now here is the thing: if it is fake Trump could easily prove it is fake by releasing his tax returns. He won't, though.

I am curious where that's gonna leave the 'under audit' defense since we now know said audit has to do with an instance of tax fraud.

[Breccia]

if it is fake Trump could easily prove it is fake by releasing his tax returns. He won't, though.

He is still demanding a pre-debate drug test. He's terrified of facing Biden in a debate, and is looking for any excuse to flake out. This, of course, contrasts strongly to the rabid fanbase's claim that Biden is a senile pedophile.

I think Biden would happily trade a drug test for Trump's taxes. Like, in less than five seconds, say some version of "Fuck the hell yes, I'll do that!"

[Zaydin]

I am curious where that's gonna leave the 'under audit' defense since we now know said audit has to do with an instance of tax fraud.

He has also already said he would love to show his taxes but he can't because they are still under an audit and that the IRS is unfair to him.

[Breccia]

"Most, if not all, of the facts appear to be inaccurate”
-- Trump Organization lawyer

"Don't worry, we can figure this out."
-- NYState prosecutors

- - - Updated - - -

A team of New York Times reporters has pored over this information to assemble the most comprehensive picture of the president’s finances and business dealings to date, and we will continue our reporting and publish additional articles about our findings in the weeks ahead. We are not making the records themselves public because we do not want to jeopardize our sources, who have taken enormous personal risks to help inform the public.

We are publishing this report because we believe citizens should understand as much as possible about their leaders and representatives — their priorities, their experiences and also their finances. Every president since the mid-1970s has made his tax information public. The tradition ensures that an official with the power to shake markets and change policy does not seek to benefit financially from his actions.

-- The New York Times

[Elegiac]

Apparently our tax dollars are on the hook for whatever is living on his head, also:

[Breccia]

I am curious where that's gonna leave the 'under audit' defense since we now know said audit has to do with an instance of tax fraud.

The fraud in question is a seventy-plus million tax refund that Trump very likely didn't deserve. If he put stuff on his returns that says he was due seventy million as an IRS refund, he almost certainly tried the same shit with NYState. Trump might be sobbing in fear, hiding in his bunker where the IRS can't get him, but NYState has armor-piercing munitions. And it would not surprise me at all if they immediately launch a second claim on Trump's taxes -- or, arguably just as good, they should just open up his NYState taxes and say "fuck it, these are evidence now".

[Adam Jensen]

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/statu...517426696?s=19

So Trump is the broke, failure of a businessman that his losses are so tremendous he barely pays taxes. Another possibility is he is just taking advantage of the tax system.

I know Trumpkins, that your cult leader is so brilliant he takes advantage of the system. Again I always ask why do you cheer for someone who can have advantages that you will never have?

Also if we go with he was broke, Trump was sure making large investments and loans. I believed Trump spent $400 million in cash to by Turnberry in Scotland and other properties. Hmm, wonder how he got hold of the cash or bank backed loans?

He's a supposed billionaire, but he pays less than my fucking rent in taxes?

[Elegiac]

The fraud in question is a seventy-plus million tax refund that Trump very likely didn't deserve. If he put stuff on his returns that says he was due seventy million as an IRS refund, he almost certainly tried the same shit with NYState. Trump might be sobbing in fear, hiding in his bunker where the IRS can't get him, but NYState has armor-piercing munitions. And it would not surprise me at all if they immediately launch a second claim on Trump's taxes -- or, arguably just as good, they should just open up his NYState taxes and say "fuck it, these are evidence now".

Apparently he's denying knowing anything about the story at all, which beggars belief simply because the article itself states that they talked to one of Trump's lawyers. Lol.

Ah, then there's this doozy:

House Democrats who have been in hot pursuit of Mr. Trump’s tax returns most likely have no idea that at least some of the records are sitting in a congressional office building. George Yin, a former chief of staff for the joint committee, said that any identifying information about taxpayers under review was tightly held among a handful of staff lawyers and was rarely shared with politicians assigned to the committee.

It is possible that the case has been paused because Mr. Trump is president, which would raise the personal stakes of re-election. If the recent Fox interview is any indication, Mr. Trump seems increasingly agitated about the matter.

“It’s a disgrace what’s happened,” he told Mr. Hannity. “We had a deal done. In fact, it was — I guess it was signed even. And once I ran, or once I won, or somewhere back a long time ago, everything was like, ‘Well, let’s start all over again.’ It’s a disgrace.”

So yeah, TLDR for folks not able to read the entire thing at the moment: Trump is very deeply in debt to the US government and other creditors, with the most immediate portion of that debt coming due within the next four years, and the size and timing of said debt is also contingent on an IRS audit case which has been paused as a result of Trump being President. Which really does boil this down to 2020 being an attempt at a coup by a man whose chief interest in the instruments of despotism being its ability to get him out of debts he owes. Lol.

I mean there's a whole layer cake of corruption and illegality but that is the main thrust as it is relevant to the election.

[Belize]

He's a supposed billionaire, but he pays less than my fucking rent in taxes?

No one who makes any kind of money pays any kind of taxes.

There's a reason large corporations get massive tax refunds every year.