What's the scolding horde players get at the start of the Ardenweald's covenant?

[munkeyinorbit]

Bwonsamdi wanted a prominent Horde leader to kill the Warchief, he gives no fucks about the faction whatsoever (nor should he, mind you) and the limit of his interactions with the Horde PC were binding them with a blatantly one-sided deal and helping defend Dazar'alor because Rastakhan strong-armed him to do so. Vol'jin would have been a good choice, yeah, but Bwonsamdi is about as much of a Horde character as a Naaru is an Alliance one.

It makes sense that Naaru are linked to the alliance over the horde and Bwonsamdi is linked to the horde. Naaru and alliance are the good guys and Bwonsamdi and the horde are the bad guys. Light and alliance. Death and horde.

[Minikin]

The HD version took a fair while to upload, but here is the link if you wanna check it out/put it in your OP.
The entire play from start to finish plus talking to ysera, she does have a bit more to say during her flight but its not super important to this, and also its currently bugged if a specific world quest is up, meaning i would need to go turn on warmode then come back just to do this and im already going out of my way so eh...

thanks!

i laughed out loud at the "YOU WERE NOT....READY!"

i dont really see a scolding per say though, but i might have missed it cuz my internet is choppy and f right now and the video reloaded multiple times.

[Raisei]

If you think that Sylvanas (especially her BfA version) was "interesting" in any way or shape, you have some pretty weird tastes, let me tell you. Yet, the villain bat was dropped on my character's head... just because.

You might think this way, but a lot of your comrades do not.

There have been and will be in the future many threads to defend Sylvanas and her genocidal hobbies. The reasons differ. Some think Sylvanas is indeed the only interesting character left (a result of watching too much GoTh if you ask me), some just wanted to kill as much Alliance as possible, some don't care and just want to kill everyone and everything and Sylvanas was a great excuse to channel the inner psychopath and finally some are in love with her.

In short lots of Horde players were immensely happy with how this expansion started. They had a great time being the guys that burned nightelf babies, dropped plague bombs on Boralus and pinned farmers to barn doors in Brennadan and these guys have been pretty vocal about that.

Your faction is attractiong all those people who want to play the bad guy and thus Blizzard now and then have to give them that just to stop the crying for a year, because the root of the problem is their own fault. Turning the Horde into a noble faction after all the shit it has commited already without so much as changing the name was never gonna work. You call it "villain bat", the other fraction calls it "omg finally".

This is also the reason why I absolutely expect another unprovoked attack of the Horde on the Alliance in the future. Not during SLs but I think in 10.0 we will begin to see the first hints at a new Warchief grabbing power, dismissing the council and that expansion will lead into another faction war.

That is the true result of BFA, there is no way in hell for the Horde to regain the trust of the Alliance anymore. We will now always expect to be stabbed in the back, no matter how much Thrall and Baine talk about peace. I mean the players, not the characters in game, those will be as surprised as ever, but the playerbase will just sigh and go through it for a third time.

More OT, yay at more admonishing fingers towards the Horde. Is that how they want to fix the faction imbalance?

Well, what we learn from SLs is that there is indeed a set idea of morality in the cosmos (symbolized and executed by the Arbiter). There is a clear definition of good and evil in-universe and evil people get called out and punished for their evil deeds. There is really no surprise that the Horde characters get called out for all the things they did during the Fourth War.
Don't forget that many of your comrades throughly enjoyed being evil and happiliy sided with Sylvanas even after all the shit she tried to pull. Obviously they get admonished for that.
In fact if there were actual consequences in this game, then a Loyalist would never leave the Shadowlands again, they'd be given the option of redemption and throw it away because "muh Dark Lady" and then they'd be send to the Maw, character stuck there forever.

[Deianeira]

The problem here is that there are various people who refuse to understand the damage this faction has done and from what I see Blizzard also refuses to understand. The lore suffers in order for that faction to be able to do what they did while every possible opposition either becomes too passive or too stupidly neutral and of course they refuse to make them pay consequences. A faction that has done more damage than the Scourge or the Legion but hides behind the term Playable Faction to escape any reparations repeating the same stupid outcome of scapegoating the Warchief. Of course the lore will again bend in order for Azeroth to trust them enough like BFA never happened.

Can we see for once actual consequences even to playable factions? Like hard consequences.

What consequences do you think would be appropriate? Imprison us for the duration of the expansion? Play the whole expansion with ressickness?

[Venziir]

Bwonsamdi wanted a prominent Horde leader to kill the Warchief, he gives no fucks about the faction whatsoever (nor should he, mind you) and the limit of his interactions with the Horde PC were binding them with a blatantly one-sided deal and helping defend Dazar'alor because Rastakhan strong-armed him to do so. Vol'jin would have been a good choice, yeah, but Bwonsamdi is about as much of a Horde character as a Naaru is an Alliance one.

While he, certainly, isn't a Horde character, he does owe the Horde quite a lot and vice versa. He helped Vol'jin retake the Echo Isles in Cataclysm, he helped the zandalari (who helped him in return) in both Nazmir and Dazar'alor and later in Shadows Risingsh, the Horde helped save his life, his temple and his followers. So not a Horde character, but an ally to say the least.

[Syegfryed]

Well, what we learn from SLs is that there is indeed a set idea of morality in the cosmos (symbolized and executed by the Arbiter). There is a clear definition of good and evil in-universe and evil people get called out and punished for their evil deeds. There is really no surprise that the Horde characters get called out for all the things they did during the Fourth War.

thats bullshit because you as a player have no choice but to partake in those things, i should not be called out when i have nothing do with that, its just bad writing all together

[FelPlague]

thanks!

i laughed out loud at the "YOU WERE NOT....READY!"

i dont really see a scolding per say though, but i might have missed it cuz my internet is choppy and f right now and the video reloaded multiple times.

nah i havent seen the scolding either, maybe its not during the play, (I have not done the FULL campaign on horde) but i have done the play a few times on horde.

closest thing to a scolding is the people gasping and ysera weeping over the world tree being burned.

[VladlTutushkin]

What consequences do you think would be appropriate? Imprison us for the duration of the expansion? Play the whole expansion with ressickness?

Get a huge, devastating and humiliating defeat with your entire faction leadership wringing hands and clutching pearls and being useless while Alliance will burn some horde city to ash and scatter the ash far and wide. With horrible, over the top descriptions and “oh we are certainly doomed now” wheeping of horde civilians.

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thats bullshit because you as a player have no choice but to partake in those things, i should not be called out when i have nothing do with that, its just bad writing all together

Sadly most of your faction fans enjoyed that sooo... Yeah, kinda shared guilt that falls on the horde in general.

[Baneto]

"-Horde bad, alliance good!"

Great writing as usual Blizzard.

[Shaetha]

That's sadly the average Horde player mindset. They like to tag along with the nasty leaders because they are "interesting" and "for mah Horde", then they dismiss all the ingame blame they get.

How is that different from a spoiled kid who wants to do things and rejects all responsibility?

That's what happens when one of your major warcries(lok'tar ogar) implies a mindset that is mutually exclusive with civilization.

[Raisei]

thats bullshit because you as a player have no choice but to partake in those things, i should not be called out when i have nothing do with that, its just bad writing all together

The entire existance of the Loyalist storyline proves you wrong. It was included because players demanded to be able to side with the psychopathic mass murderer AFTER she had commited genocide.

Considering how this proves that a lot of you were completely fine with all the things Sylvanas did, wanted more AND are only now loudly complaining when you are forced into being peaceful again, I would say that the playerbase is very much complicit in the path this story has taken. Blizzard IS listening to your feedback.

But this is exactly as expected (and as I have explained in some other thread). As long as there are no consequences this group of "Evil Horde"-lobbyists can't shut up with how much they enjoyed burning the tree and sticking it to the Night Elves, but as soon as even a minor consequence appears it is: "We had nothing to do with this, it was the writers forcing us! How dare you say we are evil!"

If you are one of those who were dragged down by this part of your faction (but considering your own comments on the peaceful Horde leadership I have my doubts), I can only say, make your voice heard. As long as the other side is louder the story will be written for THEM.

[Syegfryed]

The entire existance of the Loyalist storyline proves you wrong. It was included because players demanded to be able to side with the psychopathic mass murderer AFTER she had commited genocide.

right, then scold those alone, not the rest, they know who the loyalist were, they did the quest, its on their logs

Considering how this proves that a lot of you were completely fine with all the things Sylvanas did, wanted more AND are only now loudly complaining when you are forced into being peaceful again, I would say that the playerbase is very much complicit in the path this story has taken. Blizzard IS listening to your feedback.

This is a non argument knowing the lead dev himself is a massive Sylvanas fanboy, thats the reason of why they did the loyalist question anyway, and since they are not doing again shows how poorly was received and of course to now show his favoritism

But this is exactly as expected (and as I have explained in some other thread). As long as there are no consequences this group of "Evil Horde"-lobbyists can't shut up with how much they enjoyed burning the tree and sticking it to the Night Elves, but as soon as even a minor consequence appears it is: "We had nothing to do with this, it was the writers forcing us! How dare you say we are evil!"

again, you think is fine that the consequences falls to everyone when just the sylvanas fanboys were following her blindly, that is not going to happen, it should not happen, you are putting everyone in the same bag for some reason

If you are one of those who were dragged down by this part of your faction (but considering your own comments on the peaceful Horde leadership I have my doubts), I can only say, make your voice heard. As long as the other side is louder the story will be written for THEM.

im all up for war, with both factions, don't want anyone peaceful, but i don't like pointless genocide, especially when the place should have been conquered

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Sadly most of your faction fans enjoyed that sooo... Yeah, kinda shared guilt that falls on the horde in general.

what data are you sing to say most of "my" faction enjoyed? no one with their right mind would enjoy that knowing it was a massive fail in strategy that only screw the war for us, Sylvanas loyalists are not majority of the horde, just the most loud

[Darth-Piekus]

What consequences do you think would be appropriate? Imprison us for the duration of the expansion? Play the whole expansion with ressickness?

I would say something devastating like the Horde losing everything, geting exiled to the Outlands or somewhere else by an angry Azeroth and really restart their lives and ponder what went wrong. Then work down and try and reedeem themselves.

[kflay]

The HD version took a fair while to upload, but here is the link if you wanna check it out/put it in your OP.
The entire play from start to finish plus talking to ysera, she does have a bit more to say during her flight but its not super important to this, and also its currently bugged if a specific world quest is up, meaning i would need to go turn on warmode then come back just to do this and im already going out of my way so eh...

Nightfae sounds like the My Little Pony faction. There have to be some voice actresses from MLP among them.

[Combatbutler]

I just watched Nobbel's video on how to pick a covenant based on story, and he mentioned that horde players get a major scolding if they choose the Ardenweald covenant.

What is said and implied? I've tried to google for it but I get nothing.

I believe he refers to you having to interact with Tyrande, who isn't happy to see the horde pc.

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I would say something devastating like the Horde losing everything, geting exiled to the Outlands or somewhere else by an angry Azeroth and really restart their lives and ponder what went wrong. Then work down and try and reedeem themselves.

Sorry but utter bullshit, believable conflict does not work that way, which is what blizz should strive for not the whining of players invested in alliance and horde. Meaning establishing functioning geopolitical spheres and conflicts, far more political factions ,different interests, political intrigues civil unrest the use of mercenary armies, many more settlements etc.

In essence start to properly build up their world

[Florena]

And like.... Twice.

And the second time they even basically had the same outline for the conflict too so it wasn't even an original or better told version the second time around.

[Queen of Hamsters]

That's sadly the average Horde player mindset. They like to tag along with the nasty leaders because they are "interesting" and "for mah Horde", then they dismiss all the ingame blame they get.

How is that different from a spoiled kid who wants to do things and rejects all responsibility?

Jesus, you people...

Here's a little newsflash for you and the other kiddies; Players cannot control what the writers do with the factions.

If ya'll spent this much time whining about actual atrocities and those in power...

[Raisei]

right, then scold those alone, not the rest, they know who the loyalist were, they did the quest, its on their logs

Fair enough. Though this mixes up ingame and outgame knowledge. Just because it is in the quest log, does not mean that characters in game will recognize if you are a loyalist or not. Best example is that after the Mak'gorah there are still hidden Loyalists around.

This is a non argument knowing the lead dev himself is a massive Sylvanas fanboy, thats the reason of why they did the loyalist question anyway, and since they are not doing again shows how poorly was received and of course to now show his favoritism

It's a factually correct argument. You not liking it, does not change that. The Loyalist storyline was not planned, it was shoved in because players demanded it. Hence why it was so small and has no direct consequences, bar a small cutscene in the end.
The fact they are not continuing it has simple practical reasons:

1) Sylvanas is gonna be a raid boss sooner or later, how would that work with Loyalists in the group? Permanent mind control cast on pull?

2) Sylvanas goals have shifted quite a bit. Until the end of BFA you could at least somewhat argue that she was trying to win the war for the Horde, despite being a monster, now she is looking to destroy reality as a whole. Blizzard cannot imagine that any normal person would side with something like that. They are wrong of course, just as they were wrong when they thought that Teldrassil was enough to turn the Horde playerbase against her. But that is their reasoning.

again, you think is fine that the consequences falls to everyone when just the sylvanas fanboys were following her blindly, that is not going to happen, it should not happen, you are putting everyone in the same bag for some reason

No I am specifically refering to those guys that enjoyed the Burning of Teldrassil and kept defending it. But then the entire Horde followed Sylvanas for a long time until she turned on them as well.

im all up for war, with both factions, don't want anyone peaceful, but i don't like pointless genocide, especially when the place should have been conquered

War with the Horde always ends up in some genocide or another, because it does not know restraint.

what data are you sing to say most of "my" faction enjoyed? no one with their right mind would enjoy that knowing it was a massive fail in strategy that only screw the war for us, Sylvanas loyalists are not majority of the horde, just the most loud

Well, you do not have any data to prove that your side was in the majority either. The fact that is was enough feedback to include the Loyalists storyline is evidence enough that it was a big part of the Horde.

[Queen of Hamsters]

What consequences do you think would be appropriate? Imprison us for the duration of the expansion? Play the whole expansion with ressickness?

Logic doesn't come into play here.

Shocker. Alienating 50% of the playerbase over decisions made by writers might seem like a brilliant business tactic to those so emotionally invested in this that they equate players of one faction in a PG13 game to terrorists, but in the REAL world...

[Raelbo]

That's sadly the average Horde player mindset. They like to tag along with the nasty leaders because they are "interesting" and "for mah Horde", then they dismiss all the ingame blame they get.

How on earth is it reasonable to point the finger at the Horde players for the awful writing decisions made by the game designer?

I mean, it would be one thing if the Horde was sold to us at the start as an evil faction with "nasty leaders", but it's kind of rough when we opt in to something that is retroactively changed once we've already been playing the faction for years.