PvErs will once again be forced into PvP

[KrayZ33]

if they want a specific thing from whatever place,than yeah,you are forced to do that to get it if thats the only way of getting it

Yes.
If you want that specific item. I explained as much.
But that's not his issue.
He thinks you are forced to PvP to do PvE content - that's the thread title.

Otherwise, as mentioned before, you might as well complain about PvP/Raid only trinkets - hell, even the Gladiator Mounts.

PvPers who PvE get additional options. That's how it should be.
So unless you want PvPers to get the Mythic Raid loot without doing PvE, you shouldn't ask for PvEers to get the PvP loot without doing PvP.
And if they allow it, you'd see people whining about how method X is easier than Y and you are "forced" into method X.

[ShiyoKozuki]

None of them are. The only ones that have a real use in group content are the DK 2nd death grip in 3 seconds (very niche and encounter specific), the Druid increase to Thick Hide/Ysera’s Gift/etc (which there are probably better survival ones out there), and the Mage increased damage on frozen targets (only good for trash/add fights when not immune and the Mage hits them and open world).
Other than that, they are all pretty much useless for any kind of PvE group content.

They aren't final, and some have no drop source yet(Conquest?)

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To be fair - the common usage of 'forced' is always conditional, there is not actual use of the word forced that is not conditional.

Here - even under that definition, I'm pretty sure you can buy a legendary from the AH or get someone else to make it - so PvP is not forced under even the common usage.

Only the base crafted item, not the essence.

[CrawlFromThePit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtfu...ature=youtu.be
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/legen...the-runecarver

a memory of sephuz's proclamation sephuz's proclamation pvp honor vendor

some come from pvp, going to assume conquest vendor will have some too.

How excited are you to be forced into pvp again for essences - i mean legendaries?

noooooooooooooooooo they want us to play the game?
Fuuuuuuuuuuck man i don't want to play the game, i just want to do a tiny bit of it but not all of it, jesus christ when will bizzard understand that i pay to not play it all!??!?! When!@?&

EDIT: I wrote this in all caps to better illustrate the retardation on display here but it got automatically transformed into this piece of shit post with no soul, thanks SocialJusticeChampion.com

[Nuciek]

Yeah you could just not play the game.

I've seen this argument for a decade now, and there is no point arguing. Because some people will always keep saying you are not forced to do anything, as long as Blizzard doesn't hold a gun to your head. This is either because those people want to defend Blizzard at all costs or because they have a problem understanding language.

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Just a couple of posts later and this guy confirms exactly what I said. "As long as the developers aren't holding a gun to your head, they aren't forcing you to do anything."

People don't have to use physical force for you to be forced to do something.

If I want something in the game, and the only way to get it is by doing a certain thing, I am forced to do that thing, unless I just completely give up my goals.

I agree to an extent but there's forced and than theres "forced".

Example given by the OP is terrible. You might say that he is forced to do PvP to get that item, because he wants it, but he doesn't need that item to complete any high end PvE from what I can see. It's just his own ambition to get it, so in my book he's not really forced if his main goals are PvE oriented. So whatever reasons he has for complaining about it, they don't make sense. Even if he is a completionist that wants to get every possible thing in this game that would be stupid for him to complain about it, because this game had items locked behind certain activities since day 1. If you want to get 100% of items, achievements etc. in game you have to do all the content, if you want character power, you don't need that item. Simple.

Now we have another example which is BfA PvP gearing (or PvP gearing in almost any expansion to be fair). Players in PvP compete against each other so the gear they have plays a major factor in their performance. Someone gearing only through PvP in BfA would be at very significant disadvantage in PvP compared to anyone not only gearing through both PvP and PvE, but also to anyone that is gearing only through PvE. That player would get worse items (worse secondary stats, often worse azerite traits, PvE trinkets being insanely good in PvP) but at lower item level (end of raid bosses dropping higher item level) and having less items(spammable M+ runs). That all is not even the end because better gear is locked behind rating, and to earn that rating you have to compete with other players. In contrast to PvE, you're not going to outgear the encounter even if you stay at the same skill level. In PvP if everyone else is gearing faster and better than you, you might even loose rating, because everyone else is progressing faster, and you're not competing with a fixed AI difficulty. Now in this example anyone that wants to PvP is really forced to PvE, and not because they want that single item from there, but because without playing PvE they are basicly unable to play and enjoy the content that they want to play.

To summarize, there are different ways to look at the way people are "forced" to do some content, and they shouldn't be thrown into the same basket.

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Can you link me a source where they say this exact thing, cause I cannot recall or remember them saying that.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=318007/...t-gear-has-ver

Here for example.

The Conquest vendor will not offer perfect coverage of every stat combination, but neither does any other single source of gear in WoW. A player who favors Haste and Mastery cannot get a full set of Haste/Mastery gear from raiding alone, so if you’re someone who wants to be absolutely optimal, you’ll benefit from branching out across multiple types of content. Nonetheless, the result of these changes should be that a majority of the best gear for PvP now comes through the PvP system.

[kranur]

That's not forcing, at least not by the game.

You were forced for example to complete the attunements before you could enter certain raids.

Chasing the absolute best items or being in a guild that demands you to, is your choice.

[Azerate]

It's one game. It's perfectly fine there are some overlaps between different content that incentivizes players to take part in everything

[Baneto]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=318007/...t-gear-has-ver

Here for example.

Allright, I was thinking if they had said it in the past, but thats a recent post about SL.
We can just hope that they have learned from the feedback and fiasco with C&S and BotE.

People that dont want to optimize their characters and just play casual will not understand.

[Warning]

It's one game. It's perfectly fine there are some overlaps between different content that incentivizes players to take part in everything

I still don't really agree with that logic. How does it make sense to reward someone that plays lets say 15 hours of PVP at 2400 and 15 hours of PVE in mythic raid more than someone who spends 60 hours a week playing at 3k rating against the absolute best players in the world preparing for tournaments etc?

I really think this game needs a PVP stat, as I wrote in the topic I created on the matter.

[Nuciek]

I still don't really agree with that logic. How does it make sense to reward someone that plays lets say 15 hours of PVP at 2400 and 15 hours of PVE in mythic raid more than someone who spends 60 hours a week playing at 3k rating against the absolute best players in the world preparing for tournaments etc?

I really think this game needs a PVP stat, as I wrote in the topic I created on the matter.

You mentioned BC as the best time it was balanced, so you probably don't really know how it looked like because it was just the same - raiders had advantage over only PvPers. People mixed PvP items with PvE ones for the best results and only wearing PvP ones wasn't BiS in most cases. Not only trinkets but weapons, offsets, set bonuses. There was a "cap" where you had enough resilience to survive and after that you wanted more output.

[kflay]

I agree to an extent but there's forced and than theres "forced".

Example given by the OP is terrible. You might say that he is forced to do PvP to get that item, because he wants it, but he doesn't need that item to complete any high end PvE from what I can see.

Depends on whether the effect is good for PvE or not.

[Kauko]

Not another one... after 16years... I mean...

[Nuciek]

Depends on whether the effect is good for PvE or not.

Judging the item he linked, it's not. I might be wrong, but even if the item is 10% stronger than other legendary, he is still able to complete any PvE content he would want to do. It might be unpopular opinion here but I'd say that clearing mythic Ny'alotha without C&S and BotE is totally doable and not out of ordinary. My two examples were also to show that there are different levels of being "forced" to do something. Getting one item that is a bit better from different content is not really gamebreaking, being unable to play your content without playing other is gamebreaking.

[Zephire]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTFu...ature=youtu.be
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/legen...the-runecarver

A Memory of Sephuz's Proclamation Sephuz's Proclamation PvP Honor Vendor

Some come from PvP, going to assume conquest vendor will have some too.

How excited are you to be forced into PvP again for essences - I mean legendaries?

It's just honour right? You don't need a high MMR or similar, right? We always have to do some things we don't like to get something we need. Be it PvP, PvE or world quests.

If you could get it from other sources than just one it would be fine but just having a reason for someone to do X could open up new experiences and doors. I tend to do what I'm comfortable with, what I have done over and over with people I've known for many years. Sometimes I have to do something outside my comfort zone and it can be a horrible experience but at times it widens my perspective and I find something new I didn't know I liked.

I say the system is worth it. As long as you don't need super high MMR, insanely high M+ keys done etc. Some pain, some gain.

[Scynfullone]

In reality which of those legendaries that come from pvp are you going to use in pve??

[Tronski]

Maybe it's time for you to stop and move on? Ion ain't holding a gun at your head to play the game and do forced content.

What do you think happens with the game you clearly love 100% of if everyone who are told this actually wrap up and moves on?

Stop being dim. We all want to play the game, and we want it to be as good as it can be. And we want as many paying players as possible.

Ever since the end of WoD WoW has been an impossible shitfest of increasingly mandatory grinds to get shit that should have been baseline to begin with. This alienates anyone that doesn't want WoW as their full-time job. Very many players have been extremely dissatisfied with the last 2 expansions, and I willing to bet a third let down won't be forgiven. Grinds should be optional, not carrots to keep people logging in daily just to keep status quo. If you really enjoy them grinds, you'd do them whether you get power ups or not.

Myself I haven't even decided if I want to play SL yet. I want to want to, but I know deep down Blizzard has understood none of the complaints they claim to have listened to.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Most of the PvP legendary effects are complete shit for PvE, and since you're limited in how many legendary effects you can have active you're not going to be losing out on anything by not having the PvP legendary powers.

exactly and you can grind 1k honor in a day if you want them for some reason undlike shit like bote and conflict

Depends on whether the effect is good for PvE or not.

its not thats the point, no sims for any dps has this shit even in the top 5s this how bad it is

[Ishayu]

Karma for having PvP'ers PvE for literally every single item in all of BfA.

[Darsithis]

No one is being forced to do PvP if they don't want to. That loot looks pretty good for PvP, such as repeated death grips and CC reductions. Anyone else can still farm raids and dungeons for the essences they want.

[Kumorii]

Multiple sources of gear gives more choice of gear? Preposterous!!!

I managed to raid without the "required" bis essence of conflict and strife. No problem. You are only required if you chose to.

[Aggrophobic]

Since Raids in SL drop higher lvl loot, doesn't that mean PvP'ers will be forced to do PvE content?

Yes, they will.

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Multiple sources of gear gives more choice of gear? Preposterous!!!

The only source of max level gear is raiding in Shadowlands though.