PvErs will once again be forced into PvP

[Kumorii]

The only source of max level gear is raiding in Shadowlands though.

Indeed it does.

[shonist]

"forced"..

[Warning]

You mentioned BC as the best time it was balanced, so you probably don't really know how it looked like because it was just the same - raiders had advantage over only PvPers. People mixed PvP items with PvE ones for the best results and only wearing PvP ones wasn't BiS in most cases. Not only trinkets but weapons, offsets, set bonuses. There was a "cap" where you had enough resilience to survive and after that you wanted more output.

BC had solid balance at equal item levels. The problem in BC was that Seasons didn't match raid releases, which meant people had BT gear (especially Warglaives and Skull of Guldan were an issue) in S2. I also didn't copy the BC formula entirely, if you read my suggestion, because I felt like it was better to sacrifice some mainstat than secondaries. I played BC and got earned gladiator titles in it, PVP gear was very solid and desirable overall.

Only exceptional stuff such as warglaives, cataclysm's edge, skull of guldan and some sunwell offset pieces were an issue. A full set of PVP gear was a solid baseline ahead of a full set of PVE gear in basically every case. Right now in shadowlands it looks like the best we can hope for is parity but most likely inferiority to raiding gear.

[LostLocket]

No one is being forced to do PvP if they don't want to. That loot looks pretty good for PvP, such as repeated death grips and CC reductions. Anyone else can still farm raids and dungeons for the essences they want.

Forced is always to strong of a word. You will likely be extremely disadvantaged if you don't pvp on certain classes that gain specific conduits from it. It can be overcome by grinding something else but you will be disadvantaged early on should you chose to.

[Swnem]

I'm more concerned that they nerfed mythic+ to 1 drop per run while PvP gets a vendor where you can exchange currency for a deterministic piece of gear slot you want.

That is where you might be forced to pvp. Run countless dungeons in hopes of a drop or some BG's for a certain one?

[DechCJC]

95% of them come from PvE, how do you think pure PvPers feel?

Not that I think it's a massive issue either way.

[Kralljin]

This thread is a good example that people rather argue about wording than the actual topic at hand.

The OP used the word "forced"...so what?
Should he rather say "PvEers will be compelled to do PvP because some rewards from PvP might have niche uses in PvE"?
Bit long for my taste, but that's just me.

As far as i can tell, the point of this topic is whether rewards from PvP should have any use in PvE or not, rather than what "forced" in the context of this game means.

[Rainyhealz]

Imagine playing a game called world of "warcraft" and not pvping

[Usagi Senshi]

Being a completionist in an MMO is a fruitless endeavor if that's what you're really on about here.

Once the game finally dies, your varying degrees of "progress" goes *POOF*!

I gave up that ghost 5 years ago and stopped taking the game serious and just play it for fun.

[Kralljin]

I actually think saying "PvEers will be compelled to do PvP because some rewards from PvP might have niche uses in PvE"? is worth the extra words.

I disagree, i am able to get the basic meaning of the criticism without arguing over the words that are being used to voice it.

Because this thinking leads to arguing in this thread, people aren't discussing the actual topic, they argue over when something is allowed to be called "forced" or isn't.
At the very least, add your opinion on the topic before you argue about the words, but people are skipping that.

So what is the point here even? Get Blizzard to change their game design so he comes back?

I think whether people are playing the game or not is secondary to the criticism they are voicing.

The primary question is whether the criticisms is justified or not, obviously a player who doesn't play the game anymore can be seen as weird, but no ground to disqualify any criticisms based on unless it's based on falsehoods.
Obviously, people that aren't playing the game (anymore) are prone to that, but still not automatically disqualify their criticism.

Quite frankly, i'd rather argue about the topic at hand than the person who's voicing their opinion.

[deenman]

You just outlined the conditions of *YOUR CHOICE* about the performance in the post you just made. It is still your choice to do <X>. You are not 'forced' to by anyone except yourself.

its basic logic...you want to be X,but you first need to get Y,you cant be X withouth Y,therefore if you want X you MUST get Y

[Adam Jensen]

One of the best PvE dps essences was locked behind PvP.

I never bothered to get it in all of BFA.

Don't regret it either. Therefore nothing is forced.

[Lightning-]

It sucks, specially because PvP'ers where never forced to PvE to get stuff.

[Boiled-Lobster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTFu...ature=youtu.be
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/legen...the-runecarver

A Memory of Sephuz's Proclamation Sephuz's Proclamation PvP Honor Vendor

Some come from PvP, going to assume conquest vendor will have some too.

How excited are you to be forced into PvP again for essences - I mean legendaries?

What did you expect, a game where PvP players would be forced to.. PvE for their legendaries?

[keldarepewpew]

Good people who excel at multiple forms of content should be at the top of the game. This is exactly what blizzard is aiming to achieve.

[Zig Zug]

I usually don't take joy in the pain of others, but yeah, really going to enjoy this - if this is the actual case and not the fear based delusions of someone who takes a video game way too seriously.

[Toybox]

In defence of the OP, forced is the wrong word, but what he/she's getting at ain't too far off the mark.

Imagine if you want to play football, but the governing body said "go play rugby first" - Why? I just wanna play football... "Rugby or your team plays with 10 players."

In that instance, if you really enjoy playing football & want the best experience, you'll be playing that game of rugby, getting your head kicked in repeatedly doing something you don't enjoy just so you don't hold back your teammates whilst doing the stuff you actually enjoy doing.

Meanwhile, the Fifa fans are just laughing at the football players going "LuL well you wanted to play football xd"

[Druitz]

Well, this is alwasy the same.

pve player ares forced to play pvp since some time but pvp player are forced to player pve since like ALWAYS.

[Amariw]

I'm the first to rant whenever they force people into content they don't want to do (pvpers into pve or pvers into pvp, both should be fine just playing what they love, rewarding "branching out" is counter productive and creates frustration).

But this doesn't look to be the case, unlike the conquest essence which really was bullshit. The legendaries all seems to have abilities which you'll never prefer over pve legendaries. They're more remisicent of the old pvp set bonuses, which nobody ever said "damn i'd sac my pve set for that".

I'm much more worried for pvpers who will still have to pve, because not every pvper can have duelist rating in the first months and blizz still refuses to make pvp gear scale better/have pvp only stats. Still better then bfa though.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, this is alwasy the same.

pve player ares forced to play pvp since some time but pvp player are forced to player pve since like ALWAYS.

Untrue, in both wod and mop the advantages to playing pve were trivial, while the grand majority of your power came from pvp gear which scaled higher in pvp (or in mop case, had pvp only stats). You really could gear for pvp purely from pvp there. Why blizz gave up on such simple design is beyond me.

[Zigrifid]

I dont think you will need to play in competive lvl,many people did their arenas in BfA so they can get their rank 3 azerite and they never set foot in arena again,a rate of 1600 is easy to get (i assume it will be easy in SL too )and you only had to spend 3 weeks to get the trait and then you could stop ! what is 3 weeks in a patch that takes place for months? come on ^^ lets not whine about everything here