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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    And as someone with better things to do on my alts than chasing slightly higher ilevels that'll be replaced in a couple of months, I was looking forward to being able to passively earn upgrades at a slower rate by doing Torghast. Now it seems that won't be the case.

    I don't expect to be as strong as a raider or get upgrades as quickly as them, but alt QOL things like what it sounded like Ve'nari was going to offer are good for those players who don't consider getting power to be their first priority.
    Well, see, that falls under the filing of "if you're not going to use it you don't need it anyway", like... what do you need a rank 15 conduit for if you're not going to actually do anything with the character?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by steellz View Post
    You certainly can....fresh 120 mage, got to ilvl 455 in a single day, Raid ready..
    Raid ready is more than just ilvl now, are you dense?

  3. #43
    So basically each patch you have to refarm your toolkit, but this time its not linked to 3 parts of your armor, so at least you get to equip new items while you do it?
    Well, I guess thats slightly better than Azerite Armor.

    Still sounds exactly like the kind of busywork that they wanted to avoid this time. I guess at least you can target these instead of unlocking them through AP.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Well, see, that falls under the filing of "if you're not going to use it you don't need it anyway", like... what do you need a rank 15 conduit for if you're not going to actually do anything with the character?
    I've been in the Maw on beta, and in my experience you're gonna need decent gear to be able to do the dailies and rarespawns there in anything approaching a reasonable timeframe. I had to go into a tank spec to beat a mid-covenant campaign quest there.

    Collecting stuff and grinding currencies becomes easier and closer to fun when you're able to do content quicker and with less deaths.

  5. #45
    They should be account bound and NOT items.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibiki View Post
    They should be account bound and NOT items.
    Even if they were, they'd only be good for the same class. How many of a given class are you playing?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    Oh my, they're upping the relevance of the Maw. That'll make Preach happy!
    Well if they try to incentivize play in the Maw by attaching great rewards to it instead of making it fun then I’m not going to be happy either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeluron Lightsong View Post
    He'll find something to complain about it. :P
    I don’t understand why it’s bad to complain about content in the game not being fun. When it comes to Preach he has put a lot of time into describing in detail why the Maw is lackluster for a lot of people. Responding to that with “oh he is just complaining” just shows a lack of IQ.

  8. #48
    So are we going to have to re-farm the same conduits over and over and over and over and over or not? It seems like we are.

  9. #49
    As of today they are indeed replacing regular item slots.. just take a look at world quests in Beta

    Yesterday there was a WQ which awarded a 200ilvl ring, Haste Mastery stats

    with 6 different characters that i checked, i only had the reward on 3 of them

    You know what the other 3 had? right? Yeah.

    A conduit soaking up that slot for an item that other classes or specs might have, but you dont.

    i dont care if it equals out on the long run, during launch and first weeks of prep, having an item versus having a conduit that may even be offspec for you ( it was the case on ele shaman ) its not balanced at all, and not fair either.

  10. #50
    ok i dont really post here if at all, but all the takes on "alt friendliness" you guys are posting are not what we are asking for

    when i say i want an alt-friendly expansion i mean i dont want me playing my alt means im sacrificing my main's progress. in legion and bfa that was the case. playing my alt meant i lost all the AP i could be getting on my main instead making it less powerful.
    No one is asking for their alt to be as strong as their main. that is crazy. what i want is to play my main, finish up everything i want to do in the game on it, have it maxed out and cleared all the content i care about whether its clearing raids or pvp or m+, then and only then i can focus on another class that i enjoy and play it. i will go through the same thing on my alt as my main, gear it up regularly, gain more power and new toys/skills/renown/ap whatever, join an alt raiding group, jump into arena. whatever you want to do, without the loss of progress on your main character.

    the main culprit here was the endless grind. artifact/azerite power not having a cap, farming essences (the real shitty ones like blood of the enemy) on each character before it became accountwide, the corruption system and how playing a second character puts you weeks behind. it all makes playing a 2nd character (im only saying 2 because thats what my time allows me, but there are people that want to play 3-4 maybe more different characters) feel bad because i could be doing pity things on my main for gain instead.

    Shadowlands is looking really good for alts. I am not complaining here. No endless grind (there is a grind ofc, but its not AP level), No Titanforging and other systems that keep you farming on your main for that extra chance for an upgrade. when your main reaches bis, you are golden.

    Alt-friendliness =/= I want my alt to be equal to my main. Alt-Friendliness means I would have the option for my alt to catch up to my main without my main suffering and looking worse than its best.

  11. #51
    lol..why people mistake alt friendly with free stuff for alt ?

    alt friendly is : you do a few things on your main each day without the game being infinite grind like it was in bfa and legion and you can go on your alt having fun with them

    not alt friendly is : infinite grinding forcing you to play 24/24h on your main to be on the same level that the others player, you have 0 fun since the game become a work and you can forget about your alts fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezh View Post
    So are we going to have to re-farm the same conduits over and over and over and over and over or not? It seems like we are.
    nope they said it will be a collection, when you have x conduit at y ilvl, you dont have to refarm it, you "unlock" it and can reuse it anytime you want

  12. #52
    Tbh this looks how it should be. Target conduit through content you usually do, and have some BLP if you want to grind a bit more. Having an optional route for those who want to grind a bit more is not a bad thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaintk View Post
    nope they said it will be a collection, when you have x conduit at y ilvl, you dont have to refarm it, you "unlock" it and can reuse it anytime you want
    Yep, and you will proceed to upgrade it through getting higher levels of same conduit. It's like upgrading your gear, it's even on a different loot table than normal gear. Upgrade from relics we had in Legion since you don't destroy your current when you get something new.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Mafic View Post
    Very bad move.

    This is will cement systemlands as being not friendly to alts at all.
    So you basically want free stuff for alts. As said before: alt-friendlyness is not giving alt free stuff: alts should always be behind you main character. What alt-friendlyness means is that there is no infinite grind like AP; instead you have a finite power progression and an infinite cosmetic progression. And the most important thing here is the power progression, because you will never get cosmetics for free.

  14. #54
    Alts are a sign of a deeper problem in the game itself. It could also be a sign that the player has a bit too much time on their hand but it's nothing that the player should be suffering for. If anything games evolve, even wow(albeit slowly). It's the real problem with all these "borrowed" powers, things that need to level up etc, pointless and just there to create yet another grind. Can't really speak for things in SL since it isn't out yet and just because it's on the beta doesn't mean anything. Blizzard has a tendency as of late to just throw feces on the wall to see what sticks(bfa is a prime example of failed implementations... one after another).

  15. #55
    So, instead of making the maw more important did Blizz think about making the maw more fun?

  16. #56
    Stood in the Fire Valette's Avatar
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    Im conflicted when it comes to conduits. I think at release it'll be a fun system. Running different content to obtain the different conduits and doing it on increasingly higher difficulty to get better versions. But then the next tier releases and we'll be farming the same conduits (just better) all over again. And then the third tier releases, and we do it again. That doesnt sound very fun to me. Hopefully they'll add new conduits as the game progresses, preferably not only as raid drops, to mix things up a little. Or maybe give the old conduits bonus effects at new tier item levels. For example if a conduit increased your frostbolt's crit chance by 1-10% (based on ilevel). Then the next tier's ilevels it'll give +10% crit and an increasing chance to give you a fingers of frost proc. Just to keep things fresh

  17. #57
    Cool more reasons to avoid playing this expansion. so they combined all the shit that made me hate Legion and BfA into this.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Valette View Post
    Im conflicted when it comes to conduits. I think at release it'll be a fun system. Running different content to obtain the different conduits and doing it on increasingly higher difficulty to get better versions. But then the next tier releases and we'll be farming the same conduits (just better) all over again. And then the third tier releases, and we do it again. That doesnt sound very fun to me. Hopefully they'll add new conduits as the game progresses, preferably not only as raid drops, to mix things up a little. Or maybe give the old conduits bonus effects at new tier item levels. For example if a conduit increased your frostbolt's crit chance by 1-10% (based on ilevel). Then the next tier's ilevels it'll give +10% crit and an increasing chance to give you a fingers of frost proc. Just to keep things fresh
    But... Conduits are just more Gearslots, just with effects instead of stats.
    You always farm new/higher gear with each new patch.
    What's the problem with Conduits, then? Just farming higher ones via higher content - this is EXACTLY like gear, they don't even get destroyed anymore, which means you can simply change them >like gear< (1 week cd ofc).

    Edit:
    Everyone who thought that upgrading Conduits via Stygia was the way to go... Holy, you are not that smart. Do you know how much time it costs to get ALL conduits at rank 1 unlocked before the system starts to upgrade your rank 1s to 2? Then all of them have to upgrade to 2, then all to 3...
    It's long known that Conduits have higher ranks if you get them via higher content/ilvl - exactly like gear. Nothing different, at all. Stygia is just a way to get them higher if you are capped at the content you play (like, only doing M15s, you could get higher ranks via Stygia). Or to counter bad luck.
    Last edited by Bloodyleech; 2020-09-29 at 10:12 AM.

  19. #59
    ok so they arent guaranteed drops and the ilvl is also based on difficulty

    the item from the maw upgrades your lowest conduit so for example if you dont pvp but one of your conduits comes from pvp then it will either only upgrade that conduit or you will learn it.

    that system will essentially be dead day 1 depending on the relevance of each conduit to your spec and the fact the item upgrades your lowest first meaning you cant target what conduit it upgrades but also meaning its oke for alts because it teaches an unknown conduit. They did however nerf how quickly you can get it sooooo yeah.

    Now upgrading teh conduits i hope is as simple as using teh conduit at the forge and it automatically upgrading the previous rank and not being fucked by the week long CD that exists for some idiotic reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamrik View Post
    As of today they are indeed replacing regular item slots.. just take a look at world quests in Beta

    Yesterday there was a WQ which awarded a 200ilvl ring, Haste Mastery stats

    with 6 different characters that i checked, i only had the reward on 3 of them

    You know what the other 3 had? right? Yeah.

    A conduit soaking up that slot for an item that other classes or specs might have, but you dont.

    i dont care if it equals out on the long run, during launch and first weeks of prep, having an item versus having a conduit that may even be offspec for you ( it was the case on ele shaman ) its not balanced at all, and not fair either.
    i dont think you are going to be too worried about world quest rewards during raid prep lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sezh View Post
    So are we going to have to re-farm the same conduits over and over and over and over and over or not? It seems like we are.
    kinda

    want that execute conduit on your warrior at rank 5 instead of rank 4??? welll do that specific dungeon in m+ and hope it procs on the chest

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    Even if they were, they'd only be good for the same class. How many of a given class are you playing?
    i mean leggos are and theres like 4 shared but the class ones are also account bound

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    Quote Originally Posted by Protean View Post
    Raid ready is more than just ilvl now, are you dense?
    it really isnt

    you can clear normal in 440 gear

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodyleech View Post
    But... Conduits are just more Gearslots, just with effects instead of stats.
    You always farm new/higher gear with each new patch.
    What's the problem with Conduits, then? Just farming higher ones via higher content - this is EXACTLY like gear, they don't even get destroyed anymore, which means you can simply change them >like gear< (1 week cd ofc).
    Thats true, they are just like gear. But did the game really need more gear slots?
    Replacing all your gear with identical, slightly bigger numbers gear is not really what I would call fun, but it works as a system to keep us busy and its probably too much to ask to make enough unique and interest gear for all 20ish slots.

    But if they are already struggeling with making 20 new and interesting items for the standard gear slots, why are they now adding even more "identical item, but with slightly bigger numbers" slots?

    If they want to make you work for a complete toolset each patch, they should actually add new tools. Just adding a -10% debuff to your toolset each tier, so that you can grind yourself back up to where you where before the patch is not interesting gameplay.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

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