Confirmation of Amy Coney Barrett for the Supreme Court

[Mihalik]

Didn't he outright condemn Trump last election?

He condemned the person for specific acts/rhetoric without an explicit endorsement or a statement that people shouldn't vote for him.

It's political semantics, but it's semantics that matters.

Nevertheless the Catholic Church in the US would still need decades of reform to purge the right wing lunacy that has permeated its upper echelons. There's been a lot of appointments during the latter years of John Paul and Benedict who were meant to fight the culture war and who have been shockingly effective at it. Ratzinger has been running appointments in the US much longer than he has been pope.

[Draco-Onis]

Aye, I know. Was joking. But in general the Vatican needs to institute some serious reforms.

I think it is clear now that will never happen, the catholic church is way too old and set in it's ways for any changes to really happen. It's actually a miracle the current pope hasn't had an "accident" for speaking out too much and trying to change things.

[Antiganon]

Why should the 80% rule the 20% if the 20% would prefer to rule themselves?

Because they joined the United States willingly, by their local government at the time voting to join and ratifying the Constitution, and that Constitution explicitly prohibits secession.

Still waiting on your response to ICE forced sterilizations btw.

[Mihalik]

I think it is clear now that will never happen, the catholic church is way too old and set in it's ways for any changes to really happen. It's actually a miracle the current pope hasn't had an "accident" for speaking out too much and trying to change things.

The Catholic Church has reformed itself more than perhaps in other institution in human history. It is, after all...the oldest continuously operating institution in existence.

Over it's roughly 1900 to 1700 year history (depending how you count it) it has changed plenty. What it is tho is a profoundly conservative organization that changes with the times but only when said changes are undeniably necessary and or beneficial for its continued existence. The whole "not hating gays" and "women are equal to men" thing are relatively recent developments when you measure time on the scales the Catholic Church measures time on, if the social trends towards acceptance of gays and equality of women continue, and continue to expand worldwide (keep in mind, most Catholics don't live in the developed world) the Church will get with the program eventually because that's what it is in its interest.

Just as it got with the program with the heliocentric model, old earth creation, evolution, racial equality, democracy etc. The Church changes...it just first needs to make sure that a trend holds before it goes with it. Of course, this attitude is often deeply reactionary as it hinders the very progress it eventually adopts.

By the way...atheist here, it's just when it comes to religious loons who scare the bejesus out of me, I have to admit, I kinda find Catholics to be the least panic inducing bunch.

[Zan15]

The Catholic Church has reformed itself more than perhaps in other institution in human history. It is, after all...the oldest continuously operating institution in existence.

There are quite a number of other institutions in existence that predate the catholic church by centuries and still operate. There are also a bunch of non religious institutions that predate them as well.

Def older then the current catholic church run at the Vatican

[Thepersona]

There are quite a number of other institutions in existence that predate the catholic church by centuries and still operate. There are also a bunch of non religious institutions that predate them as well.

Def older then the current catholic church run at the Vatican

Which ones? Now i'm genuinelly curious. Maybe southeastern asian organizations?

[Blur4stuff]

The pope may not endorse Biden, but you could just look at Trump and Biden and see which one's past and policy proposals best line up with the teachings of Jesus.

If every catholic or just christian did this then the choice would be really fucking clear. Even if you want to tack on the issue of abortion, which Jesus didn't really touch on, they should still support Biden because dem policies actually reduce the number of abortions whereas republican ones don't.

[Endus]

The pope may not endorse Biden, but you could just look at Trump and Biden and see which one's past and policy proposals best line up with the teachings of Jesus.

If every catholic or just christian did this then the choice would be really fucking clear. Even if you want to tack on the issue of abortion, which Jesus didn't really touch on, they should still support Biden because dem policies actually reduce the number of abortions whereas republican ones don't.

Are we talking real Biblical Jesus, the guy who healed the sick and the poor for free, and who spent hours one afternoon braiding together a whip because he felt that strongly that he needed to whip the shit out of some exploitative bankers? Or are we talking Republican Jesus, who loves guns and big tits and MURICA and white folks?

[Zan15]

Which ones? Now i'm genuinelly curious. Maybe southeastern asian organizations?

All comes down to definitions and how much "reorganization" is acceptable to be considered still the same organization.
Also depends on when you officially consider the CC an official organization, a lot of interpretations and dates

Orthodox Christian Church of Jerusalem
St. Paul's Foundation, founded by the Apostle Paul
Eastern Orthodox church
Benedictines or the Order of St Benedict

Kongo Gumi Company
one could argue Imperial House of Japan 500 or so years BC

University of al-Qarawiyyin

maybe Chinese civil service?

- - - Updated - - -

Are we talking real Biblical Jesus, the guy who healed the sick and the poor for free, and who spent hours one afternoon braiding together a whip because he felt that strongly that he needed to whip the shit out of some exploitative bankers? Or are we talking Republican Jesus, who loves guns and big tits and MURICA and white folks?

def not the first one because....you know....
shit hole countries and brown people - Trump 2016-2020

[Draco-Onis]

The Catholic Church has reformed itself more than perhaps in other institution in human history. It is, after all...the oldest continuously operating institution in existence.

Over it's roughly 1900 to 1700 year history (depending how you count it) it has changed plenty. What it is tho is a profoundly conservative organization that changes with the times but only when said changes are undeniably necessary and or beneficial for its continued existence. The whole "not hating gays" and "women are equal to men" thing are relatively recent developments when you measure time on the scales the Catholic Church measures time on, if the social trends towards acceptance of gays and equality of women continue, and continue to expand worldwide (keep in mind, most Catholics don't live in the developed world) the Church will get with the program eventually because that's what it is in its interest.

Just as it got with the program with the heliocentric model, old earth creation, evolution, racial equality, democracy etc. The Church changes...it just first needs to make sure that a trend holds before it goes with it. Of course, this attitude is often deeply reactionary as it hinders the very progress it eventually adopts.

By the way...atheist here, it's just when it comes to religious loons who scare the bejesus out of me, I have to admit, I kinda find Catholics to be the least panic inducing bunch.

I am agnostic I actually find Catholics the scariest because they are widely accepted as "normal". You have people like this Amy Coney Barret who are basically part of a cult within a cult that adopt the most extremists of views but blend in because they are hiding in the Catholic label. It's even worse because in the US it's just "Christians" I liked it better when they were separate now they view themselves as one monolith so they can consolidate political power.

[Mihalik]

All comes down to definitions and how much "reorganization" is acceptable to be considered still the same organization.
Also depends on when you officially consider the CC an official organization, a lot of interpretations and dates

Orthodox Christian Church of Jerusalem
St. Paul's Foundation, founded by the Apostle Paul
Eastern Orthodox church
Benedictines or the Order of St Benedict

Kongo Gumi Company
one could argue Imperial House of Japan 500 or so years BC

University of al-Qarawiyyin

maybe Chinese civil service?

Of all those, the only ones that would fit the definition of an actual organization and are comparable in age are probably the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem, and the Japanese Imperial House. Tho Kongo Gumi seems to a close one too.

Tho if we count the founding of the Catholic Church the same way as we count that of the Orthodox Church of Jerusalem then the two are contemporaneous to the 1st Century AD circa 33 to 50 AD.

I always felt a more useful starting date to be the Council of Nicaea 325 AD as that was the event the formally defined what being a Catholic is and that definition has remained unchanged since.

[Felya]

I always felt a more useful starting date to be the Council of Nicaea 325 AD as that was the event the formally defined what being a Catholic is and that definition has remained unchanged since.

I share this belief... it canonized a lot of extremely significantly canon. Without it, christianity is self would be unrecognizable. Mostly because it would be so tribal and fractured.

[Thepersona]

I am agnostic I actually find Catholics the scariest because they are widely accepted as "normal". You have people like this Amy Coney Barret who are basically part of a cult within a cult that adopt the most extremists of views but blend in because they are hiding in the Catholic label. It's even worse because in the US it's just "Christians" I liked it better when they were separate now they view themselves as one monolith so they can consolidate political power.

The thing is, Catholics are almost as fractured as evangelicals.The only big difference is that they present themselves as a somewhat unified front. Catholics can have inside their big tent an organization like Opus Dei or Schoenstatt, and you can have Liberation Theology priests running around in rural Latin America.

They have a few unified policies: They're against abortion (some much more vehemently than others), against the Death penalty (the same as before)... and some others.

[PACOX]

I am agnostic I actually find Catholics the scariest because they are widely accepted as "normal". You have people like this Amy Coney Barret who are basically part of a cult within a cult that adopt the most extremists of views but blend in because they are hiding in the Catholic label. It's even worse because in the US it's just "Christians" I liked it better when they were separate now they view themselves as one monolith so they can consolidate political power.

I wouldn't say it's just 'Christians' in the US. It's just that when you bother labeling someone a Christian in the US it's usually someone who strongly identities as a 'Right-wing Christian Conservative" with all the tropes that go with that.

You start to think all are a flavor of Mike Pence.
But something to think about, a lot of early immigrants came over to the America's because European religion wasn't extreme enough for them, those beliefs didn't just die out.

Those people don't/didn't care for Catholics so it is a little nuts that there are Catholics who ally with right-wing religious conservatives in the US, many of which still call Catholicism a cult.

So. I'm still wholly convinced she calls herself a Catholic purely for optics, to appear like an outsider when worked her way in.

[Poopymonster]

I never really understood how a Catholic would ever end up being a Republican in the US.

While Conservative Catholics do align themselves with the whole anti-abortion and gay bashing brigade (let's be honest here...if religious people of all denominations can agree on something, that's hating the gays and the importance of making women pop out babies) every single other thing the GOP stands for is fundamentally opposed to pretty much every social teaching of the Catholic church.

The whole "personal responsibility&bootstraps" bullshit is derived from Protestant theology.

I can't fathom the mental gymnastics that a practicing devout Catholic would need to engage in to reconcile Republican social policy with Catholic Social teaching.

There are some strange cultish groups within the Catholic Church, but even those mostly tend to adhere to the core of Catholic Social teaching. A Catholic Republican is an oxymoron.

It comes down to single issue voters. Everything else can be utter pants on head stupid, but that ONE issue.

Yes he cheats on his wife, pays porn stars for sex, brags about sexual assault, lies repeatedly, has untoward thoughts about his daughter, and can't even quote a line from the Bible. But he said he's pro-life. That's all that matters.

Sent from iPhone in the Kitchen.

[DingDongKing]

It’s ironic as fuckdeeodoodle that a Judge who believes the bible is the word of God calls herself an ‘originalist’. The various sects of Christianity can’t even agree on an interpretation of the bible ‘as written’. Yet Serena Joy here wants to take a crack at another outdated bundle of paper ‘as intended’.

[s_bushido]

It's even worse because in the US it's just "Christians" I liked it better when they were separate now they view themselves as one monolith so they can consolidate political power.

This is only true when it's politically or socially convenient for them (usually when they want to bully non-Christian groups...). Ask fundamentalist Evangelicals and they'll tell you straight-up that Catholics aren't real Christians.

[Gelannerai]

This is only true when it's politically or socially convenient for them (usually when they want to bully non-Christian groups...). Ask fundamentalist Evangelicals and they'll tell you straight-up that Catholics aren't real Christians.

Which is hilarious, because evangelicals’ “Christianity” solely extends to either ignoring or outright cheering for rights abuses and other heinous acts while misinterpreting super obscure scripture references as a defense for said abuses.

[Trunksee]

Been off the site for so long... When did religious discussion not become an infraction? Cant tell you how many times i was banned for bashing muslims. Guess attacking Christians is ok though

[postman1782]

Been off the site for so long... When did religious discussion not become an infraction? Cant tell you how many times i was banned for bashing muslims. Guess attacking Christians is ok though

I don't see anyone bashing Christians. You might need to get your eyes checked if you see that.