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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Hadriker View Post
    yes i would.
    Some would, but most people won't if their main of 15+ years was deleted lol.
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  2. #22
    Sounds plausible.

    Restoring a level 120 character and then scaling it down to 50 sounds easier than restoring a 120 character onto a game version, where the max level is 50/60 and then scaling it down. Also there might be more problems in the background we don't even see yet. Every major patch changes a ton of things and having a corrupted database to fix would be impossible if this database does not match the database the games uses anymore.
    It's certainly laudible to first fix the game and then progress it. Absolute worst case would be for someone to permanently lose their character.

    Also, it's interesting that the server merges rolled back characters to MoP. I always had the sneaking suspicion that between MoP and WoD some things got lost. I miss some Heirlooms that I was certain I had lying around on some character. Also some achievements seemed bugged transitioning into WoD. Maybe something major happened between MoP and WoD. I hope that this will be the topic on some dev talks in the future, but those are probably company secrets...

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Sounds plausible.

    Restoring a level 120 character and then scaling it down to 50 sounds easier than restoring a 120 character onto a game version, where the max level is 50/60 and then scaling it down. Also there might be more problems in the background we don't even see yet. Every major patch changes a ton of things and having a corrupted database to fix would be impossible if this database does not match the database the games uses anymore.
    It's certainly laudible to first fix the game and then progress it. Absolute worst case would be for someone to permanently lose their character.

    Also, it's interesting that the server merges rolled back characters to MoP. I always had the sneaking suspicion that between MoP and WoD some things got lost. I miss some Heirlooms that I was certain I had lying around on some character. Also some achievements seemed bugged transitioning into WoD. Maybe something major happened between MoP and WoD. I hope that this will be the topic on some dev talks in the future, but those are probably company secrets...
    there was some lost progress for archaeology back then which could only partially be restored

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Nope, not voices in my head it is an extremely educated guess based on how servers and databases work and the current issue with Khadgar, they will and have postponed patches for technical issues in the past.
    Over 10 years ago I was part of a small team that supported a database that had to cope with hundreds of writes per second. We made transactional backups as fast as the storage was able and a copy of them to 2 other sites every ~5 seconds, plus a full backup every day. In case of a catastrophic failure we could switch over to one of the back ups and at worse lose 5 seconds worth of data. Even if all backup locations would fail we would still be able to setup a new DB and lose a day at worse (would mean a big loss in value, that would be a huge impact on finances and the future of the company)

    I don't see how Blizzard would not be able to do a full restore and lose more then a day worth of progress to be honest. Hell, rolling back a week and give compensation should be possible in that scenario so there must be something else wrong, possible they found out the backups are thrash but then you really never checked your backups..

    With todays techniques restoring a full db is pretty much unneeded as well, as long as you still have a working one. Corrupting a database is not something that happens easily and unrecoverably.
    Last edited by Amorac; 2020-09-29 at 07:34 PM.
    ~Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.~
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorac View Post
    Over 10 years ago I was part of a small team that supported a database that had to cope with hundreds of writes per second. We made transactional backups as fast as the storage was able and a copy of them to 2 other sites every ~5 seconds, plus a full backup every day. In case of a catastrophic failure we could switch over to one of the back ups and at worse lose 5 seconds worth of data. Even if all backup locations would fail we would still be able to setup a new DB and lose a day at worse (would mean a big loss in value, that would be a huge impact on finances and the future of the compagny)

    I don't see how Blizzard would not be able to do a full restore and lose more then a day worth of progress to be honest. Hell, rolling back a week and give compensation should be possible in that scenario so there must be something else wrong, possible they found out the backups are thrash but then you really never checked your backups..
    Ya that is my guess too, there is something catastrophic that happened for sure and they are not ready to talk about it.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Nope, not voices in my head it is an extremely educated guess based on how servers and databases work and the current issue with Khadgar, they will and have postponed patches for technical issues in the past.

    I was also able to find that all paid or free server transfers are disabled prior to and after mergers for some time as well for effect servers.
    Well, obviously the transfer are frozen. The server is on fire. They would not use this as an excuse to halt a worldwide million dollars release of a game, though. They could very well just hasten the server fixes, if that's what's happening. Not try once a week with a deadline.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by alessandrouw View Post
    Well, obviously the transfer are frozen. The server is on fire. They would not use this as an excuse to halt a worldwide million dollars release of a game, though. They could very well just hasten the server fixes, if that's what's happening. Not try once a week with a deadline.
    That is not the point, this is the only thing holding the pre-patch date announcement back, and they would indeed pause the patch for something like this as it would not be the first time. One server is roughly 8k players that are very likely unhappy and people get noisy quick on social media.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Ya that is my guess too, there is something catastrophic that happened for sure and they are not ready to talk about it.
    It somehow feels like they restored an old backup or something like that, if true that's a real weird error to make, but that would indicate they should have lots of backups.

    So, perhaps they found out that most recents backups are unusable and are trying to somehow get an older backup and use DB log files to get to the most recent point possible. Depends on how they handle the backups and keep the transaction logs, I can see how going from an older backup and using tlogs is going to take a while. Not sure a modern DB admin would handle backups this way anyway, haven't done this kind of work for years now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    That is not the point, this is the only thing holding the pre-patch date announcement back, and they would indeed pause the patch for something like this as it would not be the first time. One server is roughly 8k players that are very likely unhappy and people get noisy quick on social media.
    One route they could take is patch the servers that are working and not the broken ones. However, that sounds like a plan B or even C approach to me.
    ~Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.~
    ~Every damn thing you do in this life, you have to pay for.~

  9. #29
    So when you say catastrophic, what are some examples of that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Ya that is my guess too, there is something catastrophic that happened for sure and they are not ready to talk about it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Amorac View Post
    It somehow feels like they restored an old backup or something like that, if true that's a real weird error to make, but that would indicate they should have lots of backups.

    So, perhaps they found out that most recents backups are unusable and are trying to somehow trying to get an older backup and use DB log files to get to the most recent point possible. Depends on how they handle the backups and keep the transaction logs, I can see how going from an older backup and using tlogs is going to take a while. Not sure a modern DB admin would handle backups this way anyway, haven't done this kind of work for years now.
    I think more than likely something corrupted and the corruption was backed up on their redundancies as well and they probably tried to revert back to a way earlier stage just to get the server running and see how they can piece it back together.
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  11. #31
    Speculation: They're all too hungover from binge drinking during the pandemic.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    snippy dippy.
    You no doubt getting a whole lot of "nuh uhhh, no way thats it" but i honestly think this is quite logical and reasonable to conclude. I dont know for sure, and i dont see you claiming to either, which is a refreshing change here. But I do think it is quite logical to think that they have identified a concerning cause of the issues with those realms, that could potentially affect others - so they have decided to deal with that before doing anything major like a pre-patch.

  13. #33
    I don't get the hate for the OP. While this obviously would not be the only cause (if it was they could just concentrate their efforts to fix it), it adds a very plausible reason why the prepatch cannot be deployed until this failed merge (if it is as OP describes) has been fixed.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dragothica View Post
    Another reason why there hasn't been a Prepatch/Announcement yet is the issue where the game keeps downloading in the background even if you have it fully installed (including Shadowlands data). It would make sense they'd like to fix this issue before making it more complicated by launching Prepatch/Shadowlands though?

    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...kground/185760
    https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nloaded/652930
    At least its not as bad as Revenant - that shit continually downloads 30gb+ for an update that is 200mb. Their file system is beyond a joke.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    I don't get the hate for the OP. While this obviously would not be the only cause (if it was they could just concentrate their efforts to fix it), it adds a very plausible reason why the prepatch cannot be deployed until this failed merge (if it is as OP describes) has been fixed.
    I agree 100% - right or wrong, its a well thought out and logical conclusion to draw.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    You no doubt getting a whole lot of "nuh uhhh, no way thats it" but i honestly think this is quite logical and reasonable to conclude. I dont know for sure, and i dont see you claiming to either, which is a refreshing change here. But I do think it is quite logical to think that they have identified a concerning cause of the issues with those realms, that could potentially affect others - so they have decided to deal with that before doing anything major like a pre-patch.
    Ya I mean it would be nice if they were just transparent, people get angrier the longer you wait to disclose information that should have been made public. So it either blows over or gets way worse which knowing the WoW community probably the latter lol.
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  16. #36
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    sunray of hope: tomorrow is stresstest on PTR. seesm they want to finish the stuff

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Unfortunately with the botched merger of Khadgar, Medivh, Alleria and Exodar they had no choice but to push it back if they were panning on pulling the trigger. I was in contact with multiple GM's and they locked transfers off of those servers until they have "successfully" merged which has been going on for like a month now as I am trying to transfer to Area 52 and they keep telling me I have to wait. I assume this put a wrench into their pre-patch plans because tons of us cannot transfer off now so it would look really bad if they pulled the trigger before people get their characters back and can be on the server they actually want to play on as well. It is multiple things holding it back now for sure.

    You will not see a pre-patch date until they have fixed Khadgar and the merger has finished as they could do more damage trying to force the pre-patch on a potentially broken/corrupted database.

    Mark my words they are staying quiet about it until things are fixed as they don't want people to lose their shit. Soon as things are connected and smooth we will get the date.
    This... Honestly doesn't sound outside of the realms of possibility. I've always been in the "there's no chance anything will get delayed" camp, but the server issues seem to be very serious, & throwing a brand new patch into that really wouldn't be the wisest idea.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Unholyground View Post
    Ya I mean it would be nice if they were just transparent, people get angrier the longer you wait to disclose information that should have been made public. So it either blows over or gets way worse which knowing the WoW community probably the latter lol.
    Its extremely dangerous to share incomplete information though - the extrapolation and 'the sky is falling!' crap that the community creates would be much worse, if history is anything to go by. If their concern is that the issue could occur on other realms, but they have not found the cause yet, i would advise against communicating at this stage. If they DO know the cause, and are working through solutions, thats when they could come forward and explain what happened, what they are doing to fix it, and how long they expect it to take.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ranzino View Post
    sunray of hope: tomorrow is stresstest on PTR. seesm they want to finish the stuff
    Oh ya, the team dealing with the server problem is not the same as the main dev/testing team so I imagine they are in the business as usual camp for production.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Its extremely dangerous to share incomplete information though - the extrapolation and 'the sky is falling!' crap that the community creates would be much worse, if history is anything to go by. If their concern is that the issue could occur on other realms, but they have not found the cause yet, i would advise against communicating at this stage. If they DO know the cause, and are working through solutions, thats when they could come forward and explain what happened, what they are doing to fix it, and how long they expect it to take.
    That is true, it is probably better to stay quiet and get as little backlash as possible.
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  20. #40
    10/13 pre-expansion patch
    11/9 Shadowlands

    Flame on.

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