How can the blood elves be okay with the San'layn and not the void elves?

[Vaedan]

Thank you. People on this forum are convinced that there is no difference at all between Alleria Windrunner the mortal who merged with a dark naaru, and Jim the scholar who cast one Void spell in his entire life.

There is also some kind void paranoia. It seems some people think void is the only "evil" cosmic power which leads into madness and corruption in 100% cases. It is far from truth, since both Fel and Death are also notorious sources of corruption and once you start to meddle with powers such as these, you'll most likely be mad and corrupted. Not to mention that we've seen corruptive effects of Arcane as well as Light (in case of Lightbound), so it seems every cosmic Force have a chance to corrupt.

If the Void is so dangerous you have to kick a group of your magisters and exile a war hero, when keeping them from Sunwell proved to be just enough, I don't understand why blood elves don't demand exile of all Horde void users, like Shadowmoon orcs, shadow priests, etc. They are the same threat Umbric's group were before their transformation.

[Varodoc]

There is also some kind void paranoia. It seems some people think void is the only "evil" cosmic power which leads into madness and corruption in 100% cases. It is far from truth, since both Fel and Death are also notorious sources of corruption and once you start to meddle with powers such as these, you'll most likely be mad and corrupted. Not to mention that we've seen corruptive effects of Arcane as well as Light (in case of Lightbound), so it seems every cosmic Force have a chance to corrupt.

If the Void is so dangerous you have to kick a group of your magisters and exile a war hero, when keeping them from Sunwell proved to be just enough, I don't understand why blood elves don't demand exile of all Horde void users, like Shadowmoon orcs, shadow priests, etc. They are the same threat Umbric's group were before their transformation.

At this point I don't care anymore, since Rommath's decision 100% backfired and doomed the Horde war effort. Alleria Windrunner saved the Alliance at the Battle of Lordaeron, and Magister Umbric played a pivotal role in the turning point of the war, the Battle of Dazar'alor. Had Rommath never exiled the Ren'dorei, their power and knowledge would've been used in the service of Quel'thalas, and then the Alliance would've been doomed. In the end, it is Alleria who had the last laugh.

[Rhlor]

We actually don't know what protocols they have for entrance to Sunwell plateau. I guess they will not permit just anyone.

My point was that if you constantly claim presence of void users within Silvermoon or Quel'thalas is a direct danger to the Sunwell, why blood elves does not request to exile all Horde void users? Why just elves are such a problem?

We've seen a void user had to be in direct contact with Sunwell. It was also Alleria, very special case, with very unique powers different to other void elves. We don't know if regular void elves would trigger the same event. When Alleria was just in Silvermoon on her political mission, nothing happened. Letting void researchers in Silvermoon would not affect Sunwell and there would be experts on void in a case Sunwell would be ever threatened by the Void from outside source. These measures you speak of were not needed for safety of Sunwell.

As @Aucald mentioned, exile of Umbric lead directly to transformation into void elves, which definitely pose more threat to Sunwell then just mere elves using Void. Lor'themar is actually responsible for creating more threats to Sunwell by doing so, not to mention he showed he did not learned from his past lessons and is still a leader who puts his own political interests above good and unity of his people.

Do you remember the quel'delar quest where the entrance to the sunwell plateau was guarded by halduron and it was not easy to enter?

I repeat, would you have liked more to see horrors of the void destroying silvermoon? Not me, the void elves could stop studying that magic that was a danger not only for them but for everyone, they decided to continue with their dangerous investigations that in the end needed to be saved.

what happened with alleria confirmed that they were a danger.

[Vaedan]

Do you remember the quel'delar quest where the entrance to the sunwell plateau was guarded by halduron and it was not easy to enter?

I repeat, would you have liked more to see horrors of the void destroying silvermoon? Not me, the void elves could stop studying that magic that was a danger not only for them but for everyone, they decided to continue with their dangerous investigations that in the end needed to be saved.

what happened with alleria confirmed that they were a danger.

No void elf ever expressed desire to harm Sunwell in any way. Don't forget that at the time of their exile, they were just regular elves. They had no special powers at the time. Their void nature is result of their exile. If they wre not exiled, ren'dorei would not came to be and there would not be another void related race with powers to potentialy damage Sunwell.

If the entry to Sunwell is si well guarded, then it should be hard for them to enter it anyway, so no harm for it. If you can keep them easily away from Sunwell, why do want to exile them? If you are still too paranoid about them hurting Sunwell, why would they not ban all void users, like priests and warlocks from all of Silvermoon? What about other Horde members who use void liberarly?

[keldarepewpew]

No void magic in quelthalas. They are evil scum who will infect the well. Rommath made the only right call.

[Varodoc]

No void magic in quelthalas. They are evil scum who will infect the well. Rommath made the only right call.

Dear, if they wanted the Sunwell infected, they would've done it by now. Do you think there was anything stopping Alleria and her forces from teleporting inside Sunwell Plateau?

[Rhlor]

No void elf ever expressed desire to harm Sunwell in any way. Don't forget that at the time of their exile, they were just regular elves. They had no special powers at the time. Their void nature is result of their exile. If they wre not exiled, ren'dorei would not came to be and there would not be another void related race with powers to potentialy damage Sunwell.

If the entry to Sunwell is si well guarded, then it should be hard for them to enter it anyway, so no harm for it. If you can keep them easily away from Sunwell, why do want to exile them? If you are still too paranoid about them hurting Sunwell, why would they not ban all void users, like priests and warlocks from all of Silvermoon? What about other Horde members who use void liberarly?

you know what manslaughter is right? It is when you kill someone without wanting to kill someone, for example a person does something dangerous and that is against the law like driving a car while drunk. Then under the influence of alcohol he runs over and kills several people, the driver did not intend to kill anyone but he did it to do something dangerous.

no matter what the intention of the void elves they were doing something dangerous that could endanger not only them but everyone in quelthalas, they could stop doing that but they preferred to move on and had to be saved

[Vaedan]

you know what manslaughter is right? It is when you kill someone without wanting to kill someone, for example a person does something dangerous and that is against the law like driving a car while drunk. Then under the influence of alcohol he runs over and kills several people, the driver did not intend to kill anyone but he did it to do something dangerous.

no matter what the intention of the void elves they were doing something dangerous that could endanger not only them but everyone in quelthalas, they could stop doing that but they preferred to move on and had to be saved

Then you can exile half of Silvermoon, since many citizens can use dangerous powers which may lead into killing on larger scale. In this case, all priests, warlocks and most mages are threat, because you can never tell when they go over the edge. Even a random rogue can literally have too much alcohol and go to killing spree and slaughter innocents. Sorry but this argument is not really valid.

It is really simple. Rommath and Lor'theron got scared of the Void and exiled Umbric's group without second thought. Lor'themar once again showed he is incapable of solving opposition other then by exiling elves of other opinions. That decision resulted in birth of void elves. With Alleria's guidance, they seem to be relatively stable, they maintain their sanity and now offer unique knowledge of the Void to the Alliance. During War Campaign, they showed they truly can wield shadows as a weapon and since there is no notable void elf who succumbed to whispers, they proved they are in control.

It is similar to the exile of high elves. They proved they can overcome their addiction without resorting to mana tapping and consirting with corruptive energies. Now void elves proved they are capable of safe use of the Void.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

I'm human, and i'm not okay with any elves on Azeroth.

[Rhlor]

Then you can exile half of Silvermoon, since many citizens can use dangerous powers which may lead into killing on larger scale. In this case, all priests, warlocks and most mages are threat, because you can never tell when they go over the edge. Even a random rogue can literally have too much alcohol and go to killing spree and slaughter innocents. Sorry but this argument is not really valid.

It is really simple. Rommath and Lor'theron got scared of the Void and exiled Umbric's group without second thought. Lor'themar once again showed he is incapable of solving opposition other then by exiling elves of other opinions. That decision resulted in birth of void elves. With Alleria's guidance, they seem to be relatively stable, they maintain their sanity and now offer unique knowledge of the Void to the Alliance. During War Campaign, they showed they truly can wield shadows as a weapon and since there is no notable void elf who succumbed to whispers, they proved they are in control.

It is similar to the exile of high elves. They proved they can overcome their addiction without resorting to mana tapping and consirting with corruptive energies. Now void elves proved they are capable of safe use of the Void.

using void is illegal in quelthalas! how drunk driving is illegal in our world!.

the high elves who left quelthalas for that reason are now wretched! the elderly and children were dying!

[wushootaki]

The Horde player character isn't even aware that the Horde is working with the San'layn. It's not brought up at all during the Horde quest chain, and the player is kept in the dark about it.

You only learn of its existence if you play the Alliance campaign.

[Rhlor]

I'm human, and i'm not okay with any elves on Azeroth.

I am a human and I do not like the humans of Azeroth because I am already human on earth :P

[Vaedan]

using void is illegal in quelthalas! how drunk driving is illegal in our world!.

the high elves who left quelthalas for that reason are now wretched! the elderly and children were dying!

I'm sorry to say, but none of these claims are true. There is no official source indicating using void is illegal, hence shadow priests and warlocks are still fine plus no other Horde member using Void is restricted in any way, or at least we have no evidence of that. The only people punished for pursuing knowledge of the void were Umbric's group. That's why people are saying banishing Umbric was hipocrisy. It is relatable blood elves will have concerns with the Void, given Sunwell is based on Light now, but they are having this problem only with one particular group, while other members of the community, who use the Void, or other members of the Horde are unaffected by this decision.

Also, the only elves who become wretched were Quel'lithien elves, whose status is a result of feeding upon corrupted source of power, it was not a result of them giving into their addiction. It is unknown how they obtained it. Other high elf groups, like Silver Covenant, Quel'Danas Lodge elves and elven populace living in Alliance cities like Theramore and Stormwind were all unaffected. On the other hand, you can see outskirts of Silvermoon being almost overrun by wretched, so it shows which elven group were more successful in overcoming their addiction.

[keldarepewpew]

Dear, if they wanted the Sunwell infected, they would've done it by now. Do you think there was anything stopping Alleria and her forces from teleporting inside Sunwell Plateau?

Yes there is the wall we raised to keep the void elves out. They are sending their worst. KEEP the void elves out!

[Villager720]

The void elves elected to pursue research into forbidden magic associated with one the greatest traitors to Quel'thalas and when that blew up in their faces, they turned traitor on their people and homeland.

The san'layn were fighting the good fight against the Scourge, died, and were raised unwillingly into servitude by the Lich King.

So on one side, we have willing traitors that actively fight against their homeland because .... .... I guess Alleria helped them and told them Silvermoon is bad now?
And on the other we have loyal to the end soldiers that got hit with the rough end of the fate stick.

Can't imagine why the blood elves would choose one over the other (not that we've ever even seen this in game/lore).

[Rhlor]

I'm sorry to say, but none of these claims are true. There is no official source indicating using void is illegal, hence shadow priests and warlocks are still fine plus no other Horde member using Void is restricted in any way, or at least we have no evidence of that. The only people punished for pursuing knowledge of the void were Umbric's group. That's why people are saying banishing Umbric was hipocrisy. It is relatable blood elves will have concerns with the Void, given Sunwell is based on Light now, but they are having this problem only with one particular group, while other members of the community, who use the Void, or other members of the Horde are unaffected by this decision.

Also, the only elves who become wretched were Quel'lithien elves, whose status is a result of feeding upon corrupted source of power, it was not a result of them giving into their addiction. It is unknown how they obtained it. Other high elf groups, like Silver Covenant, Quel'Danas Lodge elves and elven populace living in Alliance cities like Theramore and Stormwind were all unaffected. On the other hand, you can see outskirts of Silvermoon being almost overrun by wretched, so it shows which elven group were more successful in overcoming their addiction.

We could ask the devs but I think it is obvious that using void is illegal and that the gameplay is not the same as lore.

The only elves that we know who were exiled for not wanting to eat some animals to survive were those, the rest left for different reasons, in the particular case of vereesa and why I believe the SC is because she continues to hate orcs. and the wretched were born before they started feeding on mana wrynn only a few cases were born afterwards.

[Vaedan]

We could ask the devs but I think it is obvious that using void is illegal and that the gameplay is not the same as lore.

It is not obvious in the slightest, since you have no evidence in any lore source, be it game itself or novel, shortstory, comic, or whatever else may provide canon lore. Umbric and his followers were exiled because they disobeyed direct order from Rommath, a leader of Magisters. Umbric was particularly interested in Void and searched quite deep, so out of fear of it, Rommath told him to stop. They did not heed him and were exiled for not following orders. It does not mean void practise is illegal in Quel'thalas. I'm pretty sure something as big as banning whole school of magic would take more attention, since there are many blood elves who use these magics. Nothing like that happened, there are still priests and warlocks in Silvermoon, so usage of void is legal.

Also another thing which occured to me now is that Liadrin made another lie to Thalyssra during Nightborne recruitment. She told her that Horde will not limit them in their magical pursuits, while Alliance will be restrictive. As void elves showed, it's the exact opposite - blood elves being oppresive in pursuit of knowledge and Alliance being open to unknown. What irony.

The only elves that we know who were exiled for not wanting to eat some animals to survive were those, the rest left for different reasons, in the particular case of vereesa and why I believe the SC is because she continues to hate orcs. and the wretched were born before they started feeding on mana wrynn only a few cases were born afterwards.

Not really true. All exiled high elves opposed both mana tapping and use of Fel. That's the reason they were exiled. Sure, many of them hate orcs, but it's not the point of their exile, since Quel'thalas joined the Horde AFTER exile of high elves. Also, elves have very good reasons to hate orcs, since they sabotaged their runestones in order to shut down Ban'doniriel, they allied with Amani trolls, one of the greatest enemies of elves and tried to genocide them only few years before Lor'themar decided to ally with them. I find it logical some elves would be opposed to this kind of allies.

[Rhlor]

It is not obvious in the slightest, since you have no evidence in any lore source, be it game itself or novel, shortstory, comic, or whatever else may provide canon lore. Umbric and his followers were exiled because they disobeyed direct order from Rommath, a leader of Magisters. Umbric was particularly interested in Void and searched quite deep, so out of fear of it, Rommath told him to stop. They did not heed him and were exiled for not following orders. It does not mean void practise is illegal in Quel'thalas. I'm pretty sure something as big as banning whole school of magic would take more attention, since there are many blood elves who use these magics. Nothing like that happened, there are still priests and warlocks in Silvermoon, so usage of void is legal.

Also another thing which occured to me now is that Liadrin made another lie to Thalyssra during Nightborne recruitment. She told her that Horde will not limit them in their magical pursuits, while Alliance will be restrictive. As void elves showed, it's the exact opposite - blood elves being oppresive in pursuit of knowledge and Alliance being open to unknown. What irony.




Not really true. All exiled high elves opposed both mana tapping and use of Fel. That's the reason they were exiled. Sure, many of them hate orcs, but it's not the point of their exile, since Quel'thalas joined the Horde AFTER exile of high elves. Also, elves have very good reasons to hate orcs, since they sabotaged their runestones in order to shut down Ban'doniriel, they allied with Amani trolls, one of the greatest enemies of elves and tried to genocide them only few years before Lor'themar decided to ally with them. I find it logical some elves would be opposed to this kind of allies.

Inside the SC there are high elves who are warlock trainers and there is one who has sex with a demon! that Fel's use was somewhat limited to rebuilding silvermoon! Maybe you have more information but the only high elves who said it was exiled for not wanting to eat mana wrynn were the group that are now wretched
and once again the gameplay is not the same as the lore can see a priest who by game mechanics can use void that does not mean that he uses them in the lore

[Maximus Testiculos]

Void elves should have been the outland elves that went with alleria and had to use void magic to survive and fight back. It makes perfect sense. They are the high elves that you wanted but upgraded. Everyone accepts them but they are but cautious and afraid and they get honored at their sacrifice because they are war heroes.

[Ardenaso]

Also, the only elves who become wretched were Quel'lithien elves, whose status is a result of feeding upon corrupted source of power, it was not a result of them giving into their addiction. It is unknown how they obtained it. Other high elf groups, like Silver Covenant, Quel'Danas Lodge elves and elven populace living in Alliance cities like Theramore and Stormwind were all unaffected. On the other hand, you can see outskirts of Silvermoon being almost overrun by wretched, so it shows which elven group were more successful in overcoming their addiction.

the high elves who left quelthalas for that reason are now wretched! the elderly and children were dying!

the named Quel'lithien characters also seemed to have been unaffected by the Wretching: Kirkian, Adon, Kriss, and Ren'thar; there's no implications about Aurora else she would have been a special named mob so it's safe to assume she survived as well