Wow, them's some savage warlock nerfs!

[cparle87]

Hybrid as in they can "tank" to a certain extent.

They aren't a hybrid in the complete extent that they can fulltime fulfil a heal or tank role, but because of the pet they aren't a pure dps class either. There have been tank strats for Warlock every so often as well. Regardless, the pet gives them more flexibility than a "pure" dps'er. I also don't really count the Ice Mage pet because it's largely useless and just does damage, sort of like Unholy DK.

Just letting you know what the actual definition. Hunters, locks, mages, and rogues are the pure classes. And back in the day they were the top dps cause Blizz believed that being able to do something besides dps meant you shouldn't be able to dps as well as people who have that as their only option. Warrior being the exception because they were the "chosen" tank. Ret pallies and boomkins for instance went oom incredibly quickly (boomkins actually had a talent to regain mana through melee'ing), resto druids were kept purely to innervate the real healers (priests), paladins were buffbots without even a taunt. Vanilla was a weird time.

While writing this Stormspellz and Luji also made good points.

[StillMcfuu]

Just letting you know what the actual definition. Hunters, locks, mages, and rogues are the pure classes. And back in the day they were the top dps cause Blizz believed that being able to do something besides dps meant you shouldn't be able to dps as well as people who have that as their only option. Warrior being the exception because they were the "chosen" tank. Ret pallies and boomkins for instance went oom incredibly quickly (boomkins actually had a talent to regain mana through melee'ing), resto druids were kept purely to innervate the real healers (priests), paladins were buffbots without even a taunt. Vanilla was a weird time.

While writing this Stormspellz and Luji also made good points.

Sorry I should have worded it slightly differently. Regardless they aren't a pure dps class, because of the pet. It's why they are referred to as a pet class.

[Lulbalance]

What the fuck does being a hybrid have to do with it?

The number of classes who should be consistently above one of the lock specs at any given time.

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so... only rogue lock mage and hunters are allowed to be at the top?

yes. At least one of the pure's specs should always be higher than a hybrids dps spec imo.

I understand its an unforgiving position.. and I dont give a fk

[Calfredd]

yes. At least one of the pure's specs should always be higher than a hybrids dps spec imo.

I understand its an unforgiving position.. and I dont give a fk

And that is why you only play WoW Classic, right?

[JustaWarlock]

Sorry I should have worded it slightly differently. Regardless they aren't a pure dps class, because of the pet. It's why they are referred to as a pet class.

Lol.You have absolutely no idea. At all. Please stop. You are factually wrong. No amount of your dribbling justification will make warlocks (and hunters) anything other than a pure DPS class.

[Calfredd]

Sorry I should have worded it slightly differently. Regardless they aren't a pure dps class, because of the pet. It's why they are referred to as a pet class.

You've pretty much said that Rogues are the only pure class because Warlocks have demons, Hunters have pets, and Frost Mages have the elemental.

[Orwell7]

You've pretty much said that Rogues are the only pure class because Warlocks have demons, Hunters have pets, and Frost Mages have the elemental.

Should we tell StillMcfuu about the healing numbers rogues can pump out? I don't want to hurt the feelings of someone so special as (insert pronoun as nowadays him/her is offensive)

[Reivur]

Its kind of fascinating how this became a pures vs hybrids thread especially when Blizzard has more or less said they've personally ditched that philosophy forever ago. Also the last time a Warlock ever used its pet to 'tank' in a meaningful way was Cataclysm, and that got nerfed twice and then was never allowed to be a thing ever again. I think its fair to say its been a long time since Cataclysm and pretending that they were a hybrid (not that that should matter based on dev input) because of that is weird.

Also guy earlier raises a good point about Priests and healing that everyone soared past because healing isn't a dps meter.

Anyway I'm mostly fascinated by the Venthyr nerf. It'll still be a nice cd to pop for the tanks I guess but its kind of crazy that a dev nerfs one aspect by 80% and another by half. Its almost Echoing Void all over again in terms of "Did you even try" tuning. The only reason its not at its peak is at least its not launched yet while Echoing Void did get launched.


Edit: Correction, it wasn't even Cataclysm. It was Wrath. Sartharion tanking.

[VinceVega]

Anyone who thinks hybrids should ever be in the top 5 is a degenerate. So yes, we should be at or near the top - all the time.

What utter BS.

That would only apply if there would be any hybrid specs. NOT classes....

But there are none. Every spec brings soemthing else than dmg/healing/health to the table.

[Ninix]

Hybrid as in they can "tank" to a certain extent.

They aren't a hybrid in the complete extent that they can fulltime fulfil a heal or tank role, but because of the pet they aren't a pure dps class either. There have been tank strats for Warlock every so often as well. Regardless, the pet gives them more flexibility than a "pure" dps'er. I also don't really count the Ice Mage pet because it's largely useless and just does damage, sort of like Unholy DK.

What the helling hell is that??

[Kaver]

Sorry I should have worded it slightly differently. Regardless they aren't a pure dps class, because of the pet. It's why they are referred to as a pet class.

They are referred to as a pet class/spec because they have a pet. Just like a class/spec with dots is referred to as a dot class/spec. But that has absolutely nothing to do with them being a pure dps class or not in the general perception. You are making up your own definitions right now and try to pass them as general facts. But they are not. Mage, Warlock, Hunter and Rogue is perceived as pure dps classes by the vast majority and the WoW devs have also defined them as such. You are entitled to your own opinion but it is nothing more than that. Your own.

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Hybrid as in they can "tank" to a certain extent.

Rogues and DHs are known as being able to off-tank for a short period of time in M+. Much more than Warlocks. Is Rogue also a hybrid then?

[LordVargK]

so... only rogue lock mage and hunters are allowed to be at the top?

Yes. There are 4 pure DPS classes in the game. Everyone of those should have 1 spec in the top 5, since in contrast to hybrid classes pure classes don't have a backup roll to fill, if their desired roll is outperformed.

[Raven]

Why is priest the worst healer then? One could Argue, they're the least hybrid healer class.

Becouse they are not the worst healers ?

[Reivur]

Becouse they are not the worst healers ?

I love Holy to death but they've been in the one-shot dumpster for M+ since its inception. Raid healing is 'ok' but nothing that can't be easily replicated or surpassed, especially in BFA. There was that brief period where Salvation made them desirable and then it got nerfed, then Binding Heal got kicked in the teeth too because why not. It certainly doesn't fit this silly 'pures' narrative.

[crazyswayzee]

Anyone who thinks hybrids should ever be in the top 5 is a degenerate. So yes, we should be at or near the top - all the time.

when a hybrid is actually a hybrid yeah, but in bfa destro locks heal for more than any other hybrid and they dont even need to cast for this. so yeah give me my hybrid shaman spec back and let locks heal NOTHING or less and im fine with doing lower dmg than your lock btw ma ele/enhance can spam 3 heals until he's oom.

[Deneios]

Boohoo my patchwerk dmg is less than someother class that has to keep up with target while my dots keep ticking when nobody can reach the target.

Utility is the word you should think about. What things does a rogue bring that warlock cant. Rogues have poisons stuns blind and groupwide stealth for few seconds. Warlocks bring HS, stam, dispel ,charm, SS, aoe stun, summon, and they are a ranged class. You trade some damage for group utility. Use your full toolkit and stop just blindly following dps charts

[Super Kami Dende]

1 single expansion whereas it's feast and famine every other time or completely famine in the case of WotLK.

hahaha what?? You either didn't play Warlock, or just played it badly if you think they were underpowered in Wrath.

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Yes. There are 4 pure DPS classes in the game. Everyone of those should have 1 spec in the top 5, since in contrast to hybrid classes pure classes don't have a backup roll to fill, if their desired roll is outperformed.

Yeah no. That has always been a ridiculous reason for wanting other DPS specs of other classes to be "worse" just because "MUH HYBRID!".

Many People play those classes specifically for the DPS spec.

[LordVargK]

Yeah no. That has always been a ridiculous reason for wanting other DPS specs of other classes to be "worse" just because "MUH HYBRID!".

Many People play those classes specifically for the DPS spec.

okay, but should a class with 3 DPS specs not have a 3x as high chance to be a good DPS class? If not, why have classes with 3 DPS specs then?

[Blorgo]

Having multiple DPS specs makes a class more versatile since different Specs have different strengths/weaknesses.

If we imagine a world, where for example shadow outclasses all warlock specs in every possible scenario, i'd call it an issue.
On the other hand, if you play a class with tank/heal specc, your hands are tied if your specc is bad on a certain fight. It's even worse if your specc isn't doing well at all, like windwalker monk for instance.

[Liberate90]

80% nerf to impending catastrophe initial damage and 50% nerf to the dot it leaves
20%ish nerf to scouring tithe
50%ish nerf to decimating bolts damage plus halving the bonus damage

Naturally, no change to soul rot. I guess that's one way to buff soul rot - nerf the @#$@# out of all the other abilities instead.

Where can I find said changes? The Warlocks in my Guild aren't going to be happy, especially after last week's nerf to Decimating Bolt. Big oof.

Edit: Found the post on WoWhead, my bad. Here's the link for anyone that's curious.
https://www.wowhead.com/news=318267/...-ability-tunin