shadowlands prepatch event could hit new record unless delayed also

[Wheeler]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317888/...w-pre-patch-an

looking at article above they have varied lengths of 4 to 8 weeks, will today's players tolerate a 8 week or longer prepatch? i believe...no, making me think the prepatch may need delayed also

The alternative is to let people quit for months until prepatch, which is a very risky move. Blizzard knows that their biggest hook is that players that are currently playing the game tend to stick around, and ones that put it down (if even for 30-60 days), are significantly more likely to never return to hop back on the hamster wheel. It's a game that relies heavily on sunk cost.

There's a good chance that not giving them SOMETHING new to do between now and the 30 days prior to launch (let's say it's December), gets them playing their new shiny Xbox/PS5 if they were lucky enough to snag a pre order. Gets them playing Valhalla, CoD, and Cyberpunk, and makes them significantly less likely to continue playing their expansion.

[pinkz]

The alternative is to let people quit for months until prepatch, which is a very risky move. Blizzard knows that their biggest hook is that players that are currently playing the game tend to stick around, and ones that put it down (if even for 30-60 days), are significantly more likely to never return to hop back on the hamster wheel. It's a game that relies heavily on sunk cost.

There's a good chance that not giving them SOMETHING new to do between now and the 30 days prior to launch (let's say it's December), gets them playing their new shiny Xbox/PS5 if they were lucky enough to snag a pre order. Gets them playing Valhalla, CoD, and Cyberpunk, and makes them significantly less likely to continue playing their expansion.

currently prepatch starts on Oct 13 in 8 days. so you agree if they delay prepatch, we could quit months before it occurs

#moveprepatchtodec2020

[crakerjack]

Think about it this way though: The pre patch is more than just an event. Meaning people who don't have a lot of alts, can now level alts in a fraction of the time it currently takes. If blizzard really does hold strong to not pulling the ripcord, then most people might want atleast 4 characters in order to experience each covenant to the max. I personally already have every class at max level on the alliance, so I might try to do the same on the horde.

[Musta]

heres hoping for december 15 or later... SL needs a LOT of polish

[vincink]

players did not want to deal with WOTLK prepatch scourge invasion, the tears rolled, players did not want to deal with and bent blizzard at the knee to shorten/cut it

Ha! I remember that! I remember the rage and crying on trade chat mere hours after the scourge invasion started. I was having a blast, though.

[Swnem]

We will have to and that's that. If you don't like it unsub. There is no reason to rush a product out unfinished to please a bunch of entitled people who will whine about that as well.

You people like your dates and cycles way too much and this just goes to show they were never set in stone.

[lordjust]

The issue is November 24th doesn't work for raid release. Also you're talking about getting the numbers close to right I think you're missing some of the most glaring issues with Shadowlands which is the fact many endgame systems have major flaws, which is why the announcement says "...and iterate on some interlocking pieces—particularly those related to the endgame".

The Maw needs massively addressing as well as the Stygia design. Mythic+ needs addressing due to the way gearing works now. PvP Scaling honestly should just flat out be scraped. Renown and the way it interacts with Soulbinds needs reconsidering.


If the only concern was balance, I assure you Blizzard wouldn't have delayed the expansion, they would have released it and tweaked the numbers in pre-patch and the lead up to the raid (like they always do). Balance is a challenge on test realms because you have so few people relative to the live game participating. It's why Blizzard make changes in the week leading up to Mythic week for raids.

The delay has to be systems related, and systems changes take multiple weeks to see the affects of. At this point I think Shadowlands not even coming out this year is more likely than a 4 week or less delay.

The Maw is empty but fine. There are rares and sometimes world quests that pop up if you enter a subzone that give a lot more stygia than normal and elite mobs. What they should change is the jailer's eye scaling. The bar fills very slowly and the effect you get with the higher debuff aren't dangerous enough so you don't need to care about it. It should tick up slowly by just being in the zone to create some pressure and force you to make a decision to do the daily quests and farm smaller mobs or do the daily quests and look for the rares and world quests. At the moment you can do the daily quests, take your time to farm every rare in the zone and visit every subzone to do every world quest to get the maximum amount of stygia per day.

Mythic+ is also fine in my opinion. You get less gear overall and it takes longer to get completly decked out in mythic quality gear (1 piece per week from the vault) which is fine. As soon as mythic week starts you can farm m+ to get to +14 or +15 and get decked out in heroic gear. In addiotion some conduits come from dungeons yo people who PVP and raid will want to run high key m+ to get these conduits with a higher itemlevel.

I didn't tests PVP so can't comment on that.

Renown is fine, soulbinds are a problem. You unlock slowly your soulbinds and covenant campaign which is fine because there's so much stuff you have to do every day. The problem is that some soulbinds create big difference in player power.

In the end it's just balancing but with the way Blizzard interlocked the different systems balancing is a nightmare. They already nerfed the covenant spells into the ground so that you either do less damage with your covenant ability (for example condemed does less damage than execute as arms warrior until you get to ilvl 190+) or do so little damage that you can ignore the ability and do roughly the same DPS. Biggest powergain at the moment are soulbinds and conduits and both are interlocked. You change one soulbind or conduit, it affects all specs and it takes a lot of time to find the exact sweetspot where it's roughly balanced if that sweetspot exists at all and which can change with gear. As a fresh lvl60 the difference from my testing on a warrior in the venthyr covenant is 3-5% at ilvl120 which is fine. Put on some better gear and at ilvl190 the difference is 20+%.

I think they delayed Shadowlands because they now realise that they can't balance an interlocked system that rewards player power in a way that feels rewarding and need some time to get some quick fixes in the game to buy even more time to create new systems so we can decouple the systems or decouple the powergains from these systems.

[Naxxramas91]

what new talents would a level 120 have squished to 50? you can't level past 50 to access SL talents

classes have severe balancing issues, bugs, etc

prepatch for SL removes corruption power, deactivates BFA systems

First off, there are new talents because so many classes are being reworked. Nearly every class has new talents in pre patch when compared to live.

Second, lol balancing issues? Have u never played during a pre patch before? Who the fk cares about some minor bugs and balancing issues during a pre patch.

Third, "deactivates bfa systems", you're severely misinformed. Essences and azerite are NOT deactivated. They are only inactive inside shadowlands. Considering this is a pre patch and we wont be in SL, your point is moot.

Not sure you're a troll, or you've never even logged on the ptr, OR you're just stupid.

[pinkz]

Ha! I remember that! I remember the rage and crying on trade chat mere hours after the scourge invasion started. I was having a blast, though.

life will be easier than it was on the wotlk prepatch event, AHs are now merged, players can move there AH operations to areas unaffected by the incoming SL scourge event.

- - - Updated - - -

First off, there are new talents because so many classes are being reworked. Nearly every class has new talents in pre patch when compared to live.

Second, lol balancing issues? Have u never played during a pre patch before? Who the fk cares about some minor bugs and balancing issues during a pre patch.

Third, "deactivates bfa systems", you're severely misinformed. Essences and azerite are NOT deactivated. They are only inactive inside shadowlands. Considering this is a pre patch and we wont be in SL, your point is moot.

Not sure you're a troll, or you've never even logged on the ptr, OR you're just stupid.

so whats the point of playing a what could be seriously long pre patch at 50 with systems once SL releases and you step into SL and they go inop? minor talent reworks and practicing with essences/azerite, will mean nothing going into SL and the new systems the talent were reworked for.

are you trolling?

[Malefic]

The Maw is empty but fine. There are rares and sometimes world quests that pop up if you enter a subzone that give a lot more stygia than normal and elite mobs. What they should change is the jailer's eye scaling. The bar fills very slowly and the effect you get with the higher debuff aren't dangerous enough so you don't need to care about it. It should tick up slowly by just being in the zone to create some pressure and force you to make a decision to do the daily quests and farm smaller mobs or do the daily quests and look for the rares and world quests. At the moment you can do the daily quests, take your time to farm every rare in the zone and visit every subzone to do every world quest to get the maximum amount of stygia per day.

Mythic+ is also fine in my opinion. You get less gear overall and it takes longer to get completly decked out in mythic quality gear (1 piece per week from the vault) which is fine. As soon as mythic week starts you can farm m+ to get to +14 or +15 and get decked out in heroic gear. In addiotion some conduits come from dungeons yo people who PVP and raid will want to run high key m+ to get these conduits with a higher itemlevel.

I didn't tests PVP so can't comment on that.

Renown is fine, soulbinds are a problem. You unlock slowly your soulbinds and covenant campaign which is fine because there's so much stuff you have to do every day. The problem is that some soulbinds create big difference in player power.

In the end it's just balancing but with the way Blizzard interlocked the different systems balancing is a nightmare. They already nerfed the covenant spells into the ground so that you either do less damage with your covenant ability (for example condemed does less damage than execute as arms warrior until you get to ilvl 190+) or do so little damage that you can ignore the ability and do roughly the same DPS. Biggest powergain at the moment are soulbinds and conduits and both are interlocked. You change one soulbind or conduit, it affects all specs and it takes a lot of time to find the exact sweetspot where it's roughly balanced if that sweetspot exists at all and which can change with gear. As a fresh lvl60 the difference from my testing on a warrior in the venthyr covenant is 3-5% at ilvl120 which is fine. Put on some better gear and at ilvl190 the difference is 20+%.

I think they delayed Shadowlands because they now realise that they can't balance an interlocked system that rewards player power in a way that feels rewarding and need some time to get some quick fixes in the game to buy even more time to create new systems so we can decouple the systems or decouple the powergains from these systems.

I disagree with a lot of your points.

The Maw isn't fine, it serves no purpose. You go there to do your 2 weekly quests, other than that you have no real progression purpose in there. Unlocking Torghast benefits aren't that impacting because Torghast is trivial even with a bad run. The Maw became a problem when they removed the entrance cost to Torghast, now it's just a zone with glorified enemies and some dailies that serve little-to-no character progression. This was 'resolved' recently by putting Socket purchasing on Stygia as well as the catch-up/alternative Conduit system - but this just encourages something Blizzard have vocalized they don't want - players sitting and farming something as infinitely as possible. The problem isn't the challenge, the problem is the reason for even being in the zone.

Mythic+ isn't fine because it's supposed to be an alternative to end-game raiding, in a world where titanforge existed that was possible, because you could Mythic raid and have higher base iLvl things and not need to be "as lucky" or farm M+ and hope to be lucky. Now outside of completing your Grand Vault each week there is no reason to do Mythic+ for any character progression, no amount of luck or RNG or grinding will make your character gain something (Assuming of course you're equal to heroic or better raid iLvl, and if you're not and you care about iLvl then this area isn't of concern for you). Personally I would like to see them add Mythic+ perks/benefits to gear in Mythic+ that scale with Mythic+ level, all the way from Mythic1 to Mythic30. Imagine a helm that drops that allows you to mind control a named NPC in the dungeon for 3 minutes, on Mythic1 it increases the NPCs damage by 2%, scaling up 2% per level all the way up to 30. This allows power increase and benefits from Mythic+ all the way up to Mythic30, without them being stat based increases. The covenant perks inside Mythic+, imagine if they were attributed to gear instead in someway? Perhaps a pair of gloves instead opens the way in Mists of Tirna rather than Night Fae itself. Look at Tol Dagor in Battle for Azeroth, with how lockpicking had a niche benefit in there, this is the kind of thing that could be added to Mythic+ for example a trinket could have been added that allowed players to lockpick the doors in Tol Dagor, 4 second cast time, Mythic1 reduces this by 0.1s all the way up to a 3s reduction on Mythic30. Now Mythic+ has progression within it's own system, the concerns of mass farming Mythic+ for raid based benefits doesn't exist. There's a lot of things that can be done with Mythic+, but the harsh truth is there is little-to-no reason to do Mythic+ when you've completed all your objectives for your Grand Vault.

Nothing really needs testing with PvP to see the issues with PvP scaling, we can see the issues on live. Rextroy running around utilizing PvP scaling to 1 shot people. Sockets in your gear actually LOWERING your damage etc. Level 111 players killing 120 geared players etc. The entire premise of PvP scaling is absurd, if you're 5 levels higher than someone and 50 ilvl you absolutely should destroy them. They shouldn't be 'equal to you'. This whole "Wipe the slate clean and everyone gets squished to near equal" with every 'Season' is absurd in an MMO and PvP Scaling is an example of that.

That's my point with Renown - the fact that Soulbinds are tied to it at different intervals based on Soulbinds, it needs readjusting. Soulbinds being unlocked at different rates is a problem because players have a situation where "Okay Week 1 I want to be Kyrian with Soulbind 1, until Week 4 where I unlock Necrolord Soulbind 2 and then Week 6 I go back to Kyrian Soulbind 1 with this sick talent it has now but on Week 9 I go to Night Fae with Soulbind 3 and stay there because that's now optimal for me". It's horrific.

[shise]

I mean, pre patch vs current state.. I think everyone goes with pre patch, hands down.

[ReVnX]

prepatch for SL removes corruption power, deactivates BFA systems

Prepatch only removes corruption. Azerite and essences still work

[Nayami]

You think they're going to release the expansion 2 days before a major American holiday? Really?

Why not? You would have one more thing to be thankful for!

[Wheeler]

currently prepatch starts on Oct 13 in 8 days. so you agree if they delay prepatch, we could quit months before it occurs

#moveprepatchtodec2020

Honestly, I'm not sure where/if they should delay it, since we have no clue when they intend on launching shadowlands. I think if this game isn't coming out til early-mid December, a 2 month pre-patch sounds like a pretty bad idea.

I think Corruption is a terrible system and BFA has been a disastrous expansion, but at least they're functioning. Pre patch has always been the wild west, and we give it a pass when it's broken beyond belief because we know it's 3-4 weeks temporary at most.

Definitely need to shut off CE and PvP season at this point, though.

[Super Kami Dende]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317888/...w-pre-patch-an

looking at article above they have varied lengths of 4 to 8 weeks, will today's players tolerate a 8 week or longer prepatch? i believe...no, making me think the prepatch may need delayed also

Why wouldn't they? It's a pre-patch. It doesn't require being fast.

[sunnycutie]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317888/...w-pre-patch-an

looking at article above they have varied lengths of 4 to 8 weeks, will today's players tolerate a 8 week or longer prepatch? i believe...no, making me think the prepatch may need delayed also

what does it mean, varied length? what has varied length? the other patches? that doesn't mean this patch will be 8 weeks

[Glabella]

You think they're going to release the expansion 2 days before a major American holiday? Really?

From a sales pov releasing just before black friday is good.

And yes, it means they need to have techs and devs on call to deal with server emergencies but they probably have people on call during week ends and holidays all year long anyway.

[Accendor]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317888/...w-pre-patch-an

looking at article above they have varied lengths of 4 to 8 weeks, will today's players tolerate a 8 week or longer prepatch? i believe...no, making me think the prepatch may need delayed also

What exactly are they going to do if they "do not tolerate it"?
Play it for 4 weeks, then cancel sub and come back when SL launches?
Firstly I don't think this is going to happen, simply because most people are to lazy to cancel their sub just for 2-3 weeks.
Second, even if it happens - who really cares? If you sub for prepatch, you will sub for SL, no matter if its out in October or in November or in December.

[gcsmith]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=317888/...w-pre-patch-an

looking at article above they have varied lengths of 4 to 8 weeks, will today's players tolerate a 8 week or longer prepatch? i believe...no, making me think the prepatch may need delayed also

Why wouldn't you tolerate 8 weeks of pre patch? How is it any worse than weeks without the pre patch?

[Gurahk]

I hope they do some crazy shit, have the zombies be tuned higher and higher the more weeks that pass by, and then at the absolute end buff every player with like 1000% damage, spawn bosses in cities e.t.c.