Shadowlands Delayed -- What should be changed?

[Sondrelk]

I mean.. no?

It is easy to see that it wont work. Being able to understand how the games systems work isn't the same as blind speculation.

The system clearly works though, it is doing exactly what is intended. Making the choice of a covenant impactful and actually difficult.

The covenant system would be a failure if you could swap freely, because then it would no longer be an impactful choice for players to make.

[razorpax]

The system clearly works though, it is doing exactly what is intended. Making the choice of a covenant impactful and actually difficult.

The covenant system would be a failure if you could swap freely, because then it would no longer be an impactful choice for players to make.

Remove the power aspect of the choice and then you still have to decide between story and cosmetics. Based on the fact most players can’t handle a normal raid and choose bad talents then an extra choice won’t really matter to them

[Ashleyxoxo]

Easier leveling! Always!

[deenman]

I rly dont think they will...but my hope is that they realise the covenant system is one big mess(nerfing stuff by 200% is a big sign)....so my solution is simple...pick the most interesting covenant abilities,give them to every covenant,and have the difference just be visual,the mounts,transmogs etc and the abilities....necrolord has a green diseased laser,kyrian a blue light laser etc

ofc this is just the covenant issue,they still need to fix the maw...lvling,bugs that for some reason still exist today...after the prepatch was suposed to launch lol

[razorpax]

Tuning of some specs, everything else looks great

You haven’t played the beta because if you did you would realize how wrong you are

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Limit covenants even more By locking you into them permanently While also making them have conflict and branching paths with Each other. Pretty much make them factions 2.0.

[Echo of Soul]

The problem is that just "tuning a spec" isn't as easy as it sounds, because of the interaction between the spec itself and the plethora of borrowed power (covenant+soulbinds+conduits). You don't want to end in a situation like, e.g. Fire mage, who are gods with the Blaster Master passive but utter crap without it, do you? Well, imagine now that Blaster Master is shared across all DPS specs, and you can start realising what predicament are the devs in.

I'm sure they'll tune the specs before launch, they've given themselves enough time to do so.

[Harbour]

Holy Paladin and dozen other specs like it didnt get a single look for 6 months, since alpha launch. People thinking that Blizzard will spend last month or two magically fixing specs are delusional. They will fix most major bugs, will half-ass class tuning and serve the release as "we did boys, applaud now".

[Aurosh]

I'm sure they'll tune the specs before launch, they've given themselves enough time to do so.

Well they usually have no clue how to tune stuff. Like always there will be specs after tuning dealing 20% more single target dps and great aoe damage, others will be 100% ahead in AOE, some will be bad at both...

It cannot be random, that e.g. rogues, mages, warlocks always overperform in beta. DHs are great in AOE,MMhunter is an AOE monster. So basically the ony thing special atm is that warriors arent looking great.

[Nyel]

Changing dead talents, balancing classes, covenants and legendaries. There's so many dead talents and legendaries across all the specs, it really does not feel like specs are getting equal attention in polish. Nothing else feels that bad in beta right now.

They had what, half a year to do this already? Look at some specs they barely touched although they needed a lot of polish (Monk in general, Survival Hunter, Holy Priest etc.) - I really don't expect further class changes.

I mean... they can if they want to. The Shadow Priest rework proves it, the spec has become so much better. So it's not a lack of talent or whatever, it seems to be a lack of interest or willingness to do this with the many specs that need it.

[Nayami]

Nothing major should be changed, they should focus on bug fixing, balancing, and polishing what they already have. They should also go for changes that players want that do not take much effort to implement like removing the weekly CD from conduits.

[Sezh]

Nothing should, or will for that matter, drastically change at this point. They have chosen their hill, they gotta make sure the balance is at the very least OK so they die on it with at least some dignity.

[korijenkins]

lol@you thinking that YOUR post is the reason they delayed SL.

Everyone on the boards believes they're the most important person.

I'm of a mind that the delay is because of the backlash to the gimmicky covenant system, and the fact that they were trying to build an entire expansion around a system that many made clear they didn't want. I don't expect the initial importance of covenants to change much, but it wouldn't surprise me if within a patch they were irrelevant.

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Nothing should, or will for that matter, drastically change at this point. They have chosen their hill, they gotta make sure the balance is at the very least OK so they die on it with at least some dignity.

They've never cared about balance before. Balance isn't the reason for the delay.

[orsraunia]

Preach said that during a second round of raid testing 3 days ago, some classes were 50% ahead of others. He believes this is what led to the delay.

It’s looking like the web of covenants, soulbinds, and conduits are so impossible to tune, they have resorted to heavily nerfing everything. I believe we’ll see a total rework of at least one of these systems before launch.

Look, it might be a reason, but it's not the major reason for the delay, you can count on that. If it was only about some raid bosses, they wouldn't delay the launch. Per what beta testers are reporting, there are a lot other major issues. Like class abilities that just don't work or don't work properly, bugged quests that can stop character progress, because the questing is linear in shadowlands, etc. With such things being at a broken or bugged state, releasing would be like shooting yourself on the foot.

Having said that, when there are bugs that prevent character progression or playing your class, it's out of place imo to believe that covenant outrage or a couple of raid bosses are the major reasons for delaying Shadowlands.

About balance, I am pretty sure they haven't reached the point to get seriously involved with balancing classes. I mean, if you have classes with abilities that just don't work and covenant abilities that are not set somewhat in stone yet, it's not really worth it to put serious resources into balancing classes. You can just do some rough balance. Anything more would probably end up being a waste of resources, because after those abilities start working and those covenant abilities are finalized, you'd have to balance again and probably a lot of the balancing work done in earlier stages would be scrapped.

So, imho, the logical thing to do is fix major issues, especially those that block character progression, fix class abilities, somewhat finalize the nature of covenant abilities, then balance classes and covenant abilities. Then fix everything else.

I am not saying that having a covenant ability do 1/3 of your damage or having classes do 70% more than other classes are not serious issues, I am just saying that them being involved with fixing other major issues (broken quests, broken class abilities, etc) is the cause of such major imbalances.

Finally, I believe it will be hard to even fix major issues and balance classes till December, so I wouldn't expect any reworks at this stage.

[Soikona]

To late to change stuff - they need to focus on just fixing what's there. I'd guess 2 months should be long enough to do that.

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Nah - that would be a huge mistake.

Can't believe after BfA where people complained about a lack of choice because of RNG that people are now whinging about getting nothing but choice in Shadowlands.

Maybe it’s not the same “people” complaining? Ever think of that?

[Echo of Soul]

Well they usually have no clue how to tune stuff. Like always there will be specs after tuning dealing 20% more single target dps and great aoe damage, others will be 100% ahead in AOE, some will be bad at both...

It cannot be random, that e.g. rogues, mages, warlocks always overperform in beta. DHs are great in AOE,MMhunter is an AOE monster. So basically the ony thing special atm is that warriors arent looking great.

Well you can't have every spec be equally good at everything otherwise what's the point in having classes in the first place? Tuning doesn't mean making everything equal, it's making one specs strength equal to the strength of another spec even if those strengths are completely different.

[Amnaught]

Add a quest and scenario to the end of each Timewalking campaign. It'd feel terrible to build up a fight against the Lich King for 40 levels and then get unceremoniously teleported back to Orgrimmar.

[Sezh]

They've never cared about balance before. Balance isn't the reason for the delay.

Of course it is.

[schwarzkopf]

Maybe it’s not the same “people” complaining?

Which tells you one really important thing then

[pinstripe]

Of course it is.

Surely not, because after the first few months they will discover that one class is OP as hell and out comes the nerfs. No point delaying it until we've at least proven the unbalance ourselves