Is RNG within RNG and waiting like a tool still a thing in SL?

[kranur]

I don't really think it is valid because that is the specific design of that achievement and not of every achievement in the game. Things are okay to have different requirements and there is nothing wrong with having some achievements tied to rare spawns or rare drops. This is like complaining that in order to get the Time Lost proto-drake you have to camp a zone from 2008.

Of course Blizzard will continue that method for some stuff. Because it works, is optional, and is perfectly fine. Some get lucky. Some don't. Not everything needs bad luck protection.

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Than it is a good thing that there are other achievements in the game that focus on different things right? Not everything needs to be earned in the same exact way as everything else.

I'm fine with things like TLPD. But imagine if TLPD had a low chance to drop on top of being very rare.

Anyway the point of the topic is if these continue in SL.

[MatPandaZ]

Achievements are a way of making content out of nothing. They could also just not add that achievement. Or you could just...not.... do the achievement. I'd understand if there was any reward asides from some arbitrary points. You lose nothing by skipping the content.

[rhorle]

I'm fine with things like TLPD. But imagine if TLPD had a low chance to drop on top of being very rare. Anyway the point of the topic is if these continue in SL.

But part of your complaint was about low spawning rares. So you aren't fine it. And yes Blizzard continues to use rare spawns and rare item drops in Shadowlands.

[Jericho21]

Bruh, RNG is the foundation of any RPG, even tabletop DnD. This is just a visualization of that RNG from tabletop. It's meant to be challenging, not handed to you. I mean that's like complaining about doing 500+ Heroic runs for the Raven Lord mount. Or 1000+ Strat runs for the Baron mount. Just keep at it and you'll get it. Hell I'm still camping Sholazar for the hunter pets and that's what, almost a decade ago when they came out?

[vashe9]

This is basically a rageout over Mecha-Done and Undersea Usurper but was curious if this kind of implementation is carried over in SL.

Basically if waiting for hours for a mob to spawn to have a shot at completing some requirements is still their idea of creating "lasting content"

To be more specific if anyone cares .. I'm currently over a month mark of farming everything that has a chance to drop that last damn vinyl for Mecha-Done and at several days of farming Algans and Packmother for the Rares part of Undersea Usurper.

At this point it feels like the Insane grind was better because everytime you farmed a bit, you actually made some progress where as on these, spending 3 hours can net you nothing.

I dont see the problem with low drop rates / spwn of achievements or cosmetics things... There were a lot of problems in BFA but that's not
one of them

I personally stopped to care about achivements sometime in cataclysm

[Baneto]

I don't really think it is valid because that is the specific design of that achievement and not of every achievement in the game. Things are okay to have different requirements and there is nothing wrong with having some achievements tied to rare spawns or rare drops. This is like complaining that in order to get the Time Lost proto-drake you have to camp a zone from 2008.

Of course Blizzard will continue that method for some stuff. Because it works, is optional, and is perfectly fine. Some get lucky. Some don't. Not everything needs bad luck protection.

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Than it is a good thing that there are other achievements in the game that focus on different things right? Not everything needs to be earned in the same exact way as everything else.

Why would his opinion that the achievement is terribly designed not be any less valid, just cause "its designed like that"?

I think comparing the mechagon and nazjatar achievements to camping a rare-spawn mob isnt nearly the same things.

It is game design made with time-gating and rng in mind, not with fun in mind. And we need less of those MAU-inflating things in-game.

By your logic, even installing the game is optional, we could choose not to play and therefor not give any feedback.

You need to understand that giving feedback =/= bashing the game, people like me and OP want the game to be better and more fun.
Granted I wont ever try those achievements myself, because I am no masochist and the rewards doesnt justify time-spent for me.

[rhorle]

Why would his opinion that the achievement is terribly designed not be any less valid, just cause "its designed like that"?

Woah. My logic doesn't say installing the game is optional since you know it is required to play. I never said giving feedback equals bashing. There is nothing poorly designed about an achievement hat has you hunt a rare spawn or a rare drop. It is one of many different ways Blizzard, and other games, use to offer "the carrot on a stick" to its players. The achievement is not terribly designed just because they have had bad luck.

It is comparable to a rare spawn because that is exactly what he is waiting to earn, rare kills. If you don't find that fun then don't do it. Rare spawns are not terrible game design no matter how much you want to argue. You can't have everything handed to you with zero effort.

It also doesn't inflate MAU because if you log in once you are counted. You are not counted as a new MAU each time you log on. And if you are only logging on for a rare kill or a rare item and doing nothing else in the game the problem isn't those achievements. But with not finding anything else worth doing.

[Exosirus]

This is kind of hilarious, because you're angrily complaining about one of the foundations of MMORPG design (camping mobs for a random drop), as it if was some new and crooked thing the WoW team put in to spite you in BfA.

You're trying to get an achievement you've decided you want. No-one is making you. Nothing you get from it is going to make your character stronger. I'm not aware of any similar achievements in SL, but equally, there weren't many (any?) similar achievements in BfA before Mechagon and Nazjatar were added. So I wouldn't be shocked if SL added achievements like this.

Because it's just an achievement, there's essentially nothing wrong with this design, though. Also, claiming this as "RNG within RNG" is completely misusing the term. This is just camping mobs and hoping for a drop. You wouldn't have lasted a day in EverQuest, I note, if you think this is bad.

Well actually it is RNG within RNG, When you have to hope the daily quest appears in Mechagon to then even have a chance for an item to drop OR having a drill rig share a spawn timer with 2 other drill rigs and either of the 3 can appear and again the item dropping from the rare behind any of these drill rigs is chance "RNG within RNG"

You don't win on a slot machine and then pull another lever to see if you get your prize or not.

World of warcraft evolved, Where is EQ? A more accurate comparison would be vanilla to EQ

[Baneto]

Woah. My logic doesn't say installing the game is optional since you know it is required to play. I never said giving feedback equals bashing. There is nothing poorly designed about an achievement hat has you hunt a rare spawn or a rare drop. It is one of many different ways Blizzard, and other games, use to offer "the carrot on a stick" to its players. The achievement is not terribly designed just because they have had bad luck.

It is comparable to a rare spawn because that is exactly what he is waiting to earn, rare kills. If you don't find that fun then don't do it. Rare spawns are not terrible game design no matter how much you want to argue. You can't have everything handed to you with zero effort.

It also doesn't inflate MAU because if you log in once you are counted. You are not counted as a new MAU each time you log on. And if you are only logging on for a rare kill or a rare item and doing nothing else in the game the problem isn't those achievements. But with not finding anything else worth doing.

"-If you dont find it fun dont do it"
I dont and I wont, but that being said I still dont think that is good game design.

[Nnyco]

So you complain that the no-life achivement requires grinding, in a mmo of all things? Oh thats good.

[BeepBoo]

There is content that requires skill and content that doesn't. If you want skill to matter, then the content that doesn't require skill is not made for you.

Tell that to blizzard who keeps trying to make me have to go out and do dumb shit like turn warmode on, clear warfronts, do emissary caches, faceroll islands, etc. I don't WANT to be doing their content, but if I want to maximize my potential in that hard content, they demand I do chores or become irrelevant.

[Shauren]

You are only complaining about this now? Have you met Monstrous Spineclaw?

[Elbob]

Tell that to blizzard who keeps trying to make me have to go out and do dumb shit like turn warmode on, clear warfronts, do emissary caches, faceroll islands, etc. I don't WANT to be doing their content, but if I want to maximize my potential in that hard content, they demand I do chores or become irrelevant.

you have always had to do most/all forms of content to maximize your potential, this is not new. There may be more things now but they also take less time and also over exaggerated in importance.

[Casperite]

Yeah when I spend hours sitting there watching for a rare to spawn time & time again to finally get it after a few days of farming I think to myself "holy shit, I really achieved something!"

Then don't fucking do it if you hate it so much. I do not see the issue here, you want all achievements to just be easy and fast to get?

[Toybox]

Then don't fucking do it if you hate it so much. I do not see the issue here, you want all achievements to just be easy and fast to get?

I just think it's not all that difficult to make something more interesting than "sit in one place for 3 hours & hope to get lucky." I'm not doing the Mechagon/Nazjatar meta achievements for this very reason, but I sympathize with the OP because I see his point & feel Blizzard is getting overly lazy with some of these achieves lately.

[thilicen]

Yeah when I spend hours sitting there watching for a rare to spawn time & time again to finally get it after a few days of farming I think to myself "holy shit, I really achieved something!"

If you are waiting for "days", hating it, still doing it, I'd say look inwards at that point.

[BeepBoo]

you have always had to do most/all forms of content to maximize your potential, this is not new. There may be more things now but they also take less time and also over exaggerated in importance.

This is simply not true. In WOTLK there was basically nothing of the sort to do. You could ACCELERATE your rate, but the cap on how high your gear could go (and the fact that there were no infinite grind/secondary systems) meant there wasn't a need to do that. You could still reach max power well before the end of a patch cycle without doing anything but raid.

"But you had to farm consumables!"
No. I didn't. I got enough gold from clearing raids and it was exclusive enough to be a raider that no one else had gold, so all the overworld lovers farmed all the mats and sold them to raiders.

Now-a-days, you get a pittance for gold from raids. Consumables also take more mats and are rarer.

"They take less time" please... Again, spending maybe 1 hour on raid prep a week and then not having anything else to do to maximize potential is nothing compared to the 10-20 hours to clear chores now. Especially when that content is fucking garbage obviously designed to waste my fucking time and pad their metrics. In addition, there is absolutely NO such thing as capping out right now (maybe different in SL, but I doubt it... they still have an infinite grind). So, you could just KEEP clearing garbage 24/7, and you'd be better equipped than someone else of equivalent skill and difficulty cleared.

[Utrrabbit]

It's 2020, we have technology to produce content that is more challenging than "wait around for something to happen". I have better things to do than NOT play the game I want to play. How about you?

#MakeSkillMatterAgain

Than play other games and do not whine?

[Toybox]

If you are waiting for "days", hating it, still doing it, I'd say look inwards at that point.

I'm not doing it at all, but that doesn't mean the OP doesn't have a point. While we definitely had some crazy achievements in the past, they seem to be a lot more plentiful nowadays. All I'm saying is there are definitely alternatives to how Blizzard are doing things that'd make them more interesting to chase, but that'd be a lot harder to implement than lowering the spawn rate & reducing the drop chance.

[cerin616]

I think something important is being glossed over here and it's rng inside rng

It's one thing to have a long rare that you need to camp that has a 100% drop

It's one thing to have rapid chances at a 1% drop

It's something else to put a low percent on a long camp. That's just bullshit