Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Syegfryed]

The point is that the Void elves are now infused with the Void, which is the mirror of the Light. So if the Sunwell's Light energies can cleanse the Blood elves of their Fel corruption, then the Void corruption that was forced on the Ren'dorei should theoretically do the same thing, No? After all, Light and Void are shown to work in very similar ways and have similar properties.

Any major use of one energy would override the fel taint with elves, since it was not a corruption and more a side effect of being nearby fel magic, void, arcane or light would do that just fine, what we have today is a reflect of that.

Not for nothing though, adding these customization options to Void Elves offers the Alliance High Elves the opportunity to move forward in the lore. From vanilla till now, the Alliance High Elves (the people as a whole, not specific organizations like the Silver Covenant) have basically just been in stasis, doing nothing really to progress beyond where they were after splitting from their kin in Silvermoon. Through the Ren'dorei, the High Elves that join Alleria can lead the charge going forward and start building a new future.

the "alliance high elves" will not charge going forward building a new future, the ones who will are void elves, the "alliance high elves" who are not void elves(like silver covenant) will stay in the same limbo they were before, because there was lots of reasons of why they story didn't progress, unless they turn into voi elves

I know things are all all wild these days with people making up stuff and adapting others, but the void elves are still void elves(not high elves shadow priests), regardless if they look like a high elf, they are not the same race, and seems like a lot of people completely forget/ignore that, thinking HE is a state of spirit/faction allegiance/appearance when for years they fought against some of those concepts

[Kyriani]

I really don't think these two essences would behave in similar fashions or produce the same results.

They might not behave in similar fashions but they do seem to produce similar results, at least in some cases.

Consider this. The Light in the Sunwell is cleansing the Fel taint from the Blood Elves thus their eyes returning to blue (or gold in the case of those strongly tied to the Light - Holy priests/Paladins?)

In the case of Void Elves, Silvermoon Scholars that join the Ren'dorei are having their Fel taint consumed by the Void energy thus their eyes returning to blue (or perhaps the new purple for those who become strongly tied to the Void - Shadow priests perhaps?)

They may function differently but they have a similar end result. In both cases the Fel taint is removed. Obviously player choice trumps canon lore as we can have Blood Elf Warlocks with golden eyes, but you get the gist of what I'm saying right?

The Light can heal wounds. The Void can also heal wounds. They may not do it in the same manner, but they do have a similar end result (wounds are healed).

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the "alliance high elves" will not charge going forward building a new future, the ones who will are void elves, the "alliance high elves" who are not void elves(like silver covenant) will stay in the same limbo they were before, because there was lots of reasons of why they story didn't progress, unless they turn into voi elves

I know things are all all wild these days with people making up stuff and adapting others, but the void elves are still void elves(not high elves shadow priests), regardless if they look like a high elf, they are not the same race, and seems like a lot of people completely forget/ignore that, thinking HE is a state of spirit/faction allegiance/appearance when for years they fought against some of those concepts

Well the game director says Void Elves are High Elves so I'm inclined to take his word over yours.

[Rhlor]

They might not behave in similar fashions but they do seem to produce similar results, at least in some cases.

Consider this. The Light in the Sunwell is cleansing the Fel taint from the Blood Elves thus their eyes returning to blue (or gold in the case of those strongly tied to the Light - Holy priests/Paladins?)

In the case of Void Elves, Silvermoon Scholars that join the Ren'dorei are having their Fel taint consumed by the Void energy thus their eyes returning to blue (or perhaps the new purple for those who become strongly tied to the Void - Shadow priests perhaps?)

They may function differently but they have a similar end result. In both cases the Fel taint is removed. Obviously player choice trumps canon lore as we can have Blood Elf Warlocks with golden eyes, but you get the gist of what I'm saying right?

The Light can heal wounds. The Void can also heal wounds. They may not do it in the same manner, but they do have a similar end result (wounds are healed).

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Well the game director says Void Elves are High Elves so I'm inclined to take his word over yours.

there are elves with green eyes in telogrus
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Silvermoon_Scholar

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Listen, this is starting to get weird. You quoted me remember?

I made my point about why blood elves look like high elves and what tbe point is in rping as one. That is the conversation. My point still stands and that is that blood elves look like proper high elves and void elves not so much.

Ps; I edited my comment, because I though It was to short and felt bit heated, which wasnt the case. Reread it if you want, but the conversation was about the rp element which is the whole point of high elves today.

Sure, let's go with that.

High elves are dead in terms of where so they belong.. I thought that was clear by now. Both factions got the eye color and in wow high elves are blood elves with blue eyes and fair skin. So saying there is no true high elf look is false. There isnt much else to it I am afraid.

But like, again, this isn't like some obscure knowledge or difficult to understand posture; regardless of playability, the alliance has groups of high elves, and it has since vanilla.

So that you say that aesthetically you can be closer to a HE on the horde might be a very surface take but its fine, and then go on saying that "high elves are dead in terms of where they belong" when a large part of them has been alliance since vanilla is pretty odd.

As moot your aesthetic point is -and never having said that there's no true high elf look so you kinda are confounding the issue- the fact that you still try to deny that lorewise High Elves are part of the alliance -as well as a neutral group- seems pretty pointed.

Like let's be honest, that BE and VE both get customizations that make them look like a high elf, so far hasn't affected the lore at all, where again, High Elves -through the SC, Highvale and other groups- are alliance.

But again, already pointed out that wasn't the level of nuance you weren't going for; the point was to call attention at how surface level your comment was.

[Aucald]

They might not behave in similar fashions but they do seem to produce similar results, at least in some cases.

Consider this. The Light in the Sunwell is cleansing the Fel taint from the Blood Elves thus their eyes returning to blue (or gold in the case of those strongly tied to the Light - Holy priests/Paladins?)

In the case of Void Elves, Silvermoon Scholars that join the Ren'dorei are having their Fel taint consumed by the Void energy thus their eyes returning to blue (or perhaps the new purple for those who become strongly tied to the Void - Shadow priests perhaps?)

They may function differently but they have a similar end result. In both cases the Fel taint is removed. Obviously player choice trumps canon lore as we can have Blood Elf Warlocks with golden eyes, but you get the gist of what I'm saying right?

The Light can heal wounds. The Void can also heal wounds. They may not do it in the same manner, but they do have a similar end result (wounds are healed).

Well the game director says Void Elves are High Elves so I'm inclined to take his word over yours.

My argument is that neither this "cleaning" or "consuming" is really tantamount to either term - the Sunwell is overlaying the Fel energies with those of the Arcane and/or Light, which is still a different mix than the High Elves prior to the Third War were subject to, whereas the Void is overlaying them with Void energies which are an entirely different thing. The end-result itself isn't even really the same, as the eye glow of the Void Elves isn't the same as that of the High Elves - the color might be similar, but so is the color of the eyes of Death Knights (and they have nothing to do with either energy source).

This doesn't really intersect at all with the previous debate of Void Elves or Blood Elves being High Elves, as it were; as both groups can lay claim to the title from a lore sense. Functionally, however, neither Blood Elves nor Void Elves are the same thing as the High Elven exiles - not from a gameplay standpoint, and not even a from a lore one as they belong to different cultures now. The Void Elves are an emergent culture due to their radical alteration, whereas the Blood Elves' culture has diverged greatly from its previous roots. Void Elves and Blood Elves are High Elves, yes; but there's still a significant division between the various variants of High Elves that now exist (e.g. Blood, Void, and exile).

[Ardenaso]

bottom line is, new generation of Void Elves don't have to go through whatever that Void Lord's cosmetics and tanning services did to Umbric and the first generation - and I doubt they'll be stupid enough to risk their lives to go throught the process that was only saved by Alleria on a 1% close shave

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Assuming Blizzard cares. With the whole "we giving you these options because we want players to be whoever they want to be" is there much point anymore? Wouldn't be surprised if they just randomize npc placements and sooner or later you'll see Blood Elf npc's in a BE camp with blue eyes.

That's not an issue; like, the whole point I am trying to make here is that a blue eyed blood elf is still a blood elf, it doesn't magically get renamed a High Elf, because Blood elf and High Elf are sociopolitical identities, they are inexorably linked to a wider context beyond aesthetic, which includes ideology, culture environment and politics. That would only change when Blizzard introduces in lore a group of blue eyed elves that calles themselves high elves, but are aligned with the Horde and Silvermoon.

The aesthetics helps us get closer to a High Elf fantasy that was already there -Silver Covenant, 7th Legion, Highvale, etc- but the lore itself has not changed with this.

[scubi666stacy]

Yes, I'm aware of your stance on the matter, I guess most of posters who watch this topic are. I agree, it's nothing strange on wanting options to look like your racial leader and I personally wanted at least one pink skin for void elves from the beginning too. Though I was one of the pro-helfers, I actually accepted void elves quickly and I grew fond of them. Now it's clear win for most of us, since void elf fans have chance to look like their leader and pro-helfers have the closest option to high elves on the Alliance. Just few more details.

Good thing is that the crusade is finaly over and anti-helfers realized their fight is lost.

I see this as the only reasonable compromise, because the devs probably would not add another Elven race in the near future, if any. You get your High Elf looks, but the race is still dubbed Void Elf. It ultimately shows that High Elf fans are only there for the looks. *shrugs*
My Void Elves will be proudly showing their new colours. The future belongs to them.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Personally, I think that if someone who plays a void elf and with high elf customization, no one should tell them that it is not, it is their personal canon and Danuser said that the personal canon is canon with the new customizations, if you play sand troll customizations then you are sand troll in the same way that if you play wildhammer you are a wildhammer, the art director said they were adding high elves as high elf customization for void elves and blood elves, it is the blizz who said this, say that a race is the true is silly all those who play with the customizations are high elves said by the devs

Good, because this is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is that no group of thalassians in the horde refer to themselves as High Elves, because the High Elves in the horde chose to name themselves Blood Elves.

Or did you think that Blood Elves were a whole different race because they couldn't have blue eyes? It's not a matter of race, but about how group self defines.

But since you are so hellbent; why do you want to call yourself a High Elf on the Horde? cause ultimately, that's what I don't get.

And from a personal level, it's not for me to get, that's why my foremost point is to simply state that there are no groups of high elves on the horde... because they refer to themselves as blood elves.

It's over 1k pages in, you gotta learn to separate the surface of high elven aesthetics from more nuanced conversations about high elves as ideological and political entities, cause otherwise we are parroting the same "Blood Elves are High Elves" discussions of years past.

[Syegfryed]

Well the game director says Void Elves are High Elves so I'm inclined to take his word over yours.

he didn't rly said that though, not as far i know

The Light can heal wounds. The Void can also heal wounds. They may not do it in the same manner, but they do have a similar end result (wounds are healed).

Like i said to the other guy, is not about cleaning or consuming, is simple than that, is just elf biology, when they use an energy it override the old one, if its long enough/powerful enough its gets permanent, like Valera eyes turning purple by absorbing the magic of a naga artifact,. thats why arcane eyes were obvious a thing before.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I see this as the only reasonable compromise, because the devs probably would not add another Elven race in the near future, if any. You get your High Elf looks, but the race is still dubbed Void Elf. It ultimately shows that High Elf fans are only there for the looks. *shrugs*
My Void Elves will be proudly showing their new colours. The future belongs to them.

Now that's a pretty loaded statement.

And kinda hypocritical; you yourself say that "devs will probably not add another elven race", then disparage the people that, agreeing with that, see the expanded customization as a compromise? Damned if you do, damned if you don't to the likes of you.

High Elf fantasy on the alliance pretty much remains as it has been since Legion; no major lore changes through BfA. Hopefully that will change, so excuse us for trying to be happy to at least get closer to the look of that fantasy

[Syegfryed]

That's not an issue; like, the whole point I am trying to make here is that a blue eyed blood elf is still a blood elf, it doesn't magically get renamed a High Elf, because Blood elf and High Elf are sociopolitical identities, they are inexorably linked to a wider context beyond aesthetic, which includes ideology, culture environment and politics. That would only change when Blizzard introduces in lore a group of blue eyed elves that calles themselves high elves, but are aligned with the Horde and Silvermoon.

The aesthetics helps us get closer to a High Elf fantasy that was already there -Silver Covenant, 7th Legion, Highvale, etc- but the lore itself has not changed with this.

High elf before being anything else and the subversion was/is the race of elves who came from the night elves, thats why blood elves are high elves, sure the race have different groups, but the main problem lies when one group want take the name of the race, use to name themselves, changing the meaning of it, so people think this group is that race alone or when the other part of the discussion think the groups are no different whatsoever.

and thats why those "debates" will never die, things would be so much simple if the ones in the alliance named themselves as i dunno arcane elves. or if everyone became void elf, but well

[Kyriani]

he didn't rly said that though, not as far i know

Actually... he did:

Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves... Void Elves are also pretty much another flavor of High Elves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BsxB4NJIBs

You don't have to take my word for it though, watch the video with Ion right there saying it.

[Syegfryed]

Actually... he did:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BsxB4NJIBs

Thats literally him saying they are different, not the same, unless you thing another flavour is the same flavour

[Kyriani]

Thats literally him saying they are different, not the same, unless you thing another flavour is the same flavour

I'm just telling you what the game director said. He said that Void Elves are a flavor of High Elves. Ergo, Void Elves are High Elves. Whatever mental gymnastics you want to go through to convince yourself otherwise are none of my concern.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

High elf before being anything else and the subversion was/is the race of elves who came from the night elves, thats why blood elves are high elves, sure the race have different groups, but the main problem lies when one group want take the name of the race, use to name themselves, changing the meaning of it, so people think this group is that race alone or when the other part of the discussion think the groups are no different whatsoever.

and thats why those "debates" will never die, things would be so much simple if the ones in the alliance named themselves as i dunno arcane elves. or if everyone became void elf, but well

I actually agree with this; things would be so much easier to understand if the "Modern High Elves" changed their name to anything else -IDK Silver Elves? anything would be clearer.

Cause again, it's simply an issue of self-denomination at this point, and unlike real life where there's little incentive to make sense from a narrative perspective, this is a constructed world, and the whole discussion would be far more streamlined if we could simply say:

"High Elves split into two groups; Blood Elves in the majority and Silver Elves in the minority. The former exists predominantly on the Horde, while the latter does so on the Alliance and Dalaran"

And I do believe wholeheartedly we would have faaar les cyclical arguments if this were true, but I also think things would go on a lot smoother if some people just accepted that the modern usage of High Elf is distinct from its pre Third-War incarnation, and I don't get the insistence of willingly obfuscating the issue.

-And like I get there will be some people saying "High Elves are the true High Elves because of the name" but I think everyone that actually cares about the nuance know that's just not accurate. Won't deny that's an easy branding to position a group as the true inheritors regardless, so we are back to it being far more simple if Modern High Elves changed their name to something else-

[Kyriani]

I don't get the insistence of willingly obfuscating the issue.

I just chalk that up to either a desire to try and upset those on the pro-side or a desire to fan the flames between the pro's and anti's to troll the whole lot.

[Syegfryed]

I'm just telling you what the game director said. He said that Void Elves are a flavor of High Elves. Ergo, Void Elves are High Elves. Whatever mental gymnastics you want to go through to convince yourself otherwise are none of my concern.

He literally said they are different(ergo a subrace), you are distorting what he said to fit your point, and that is not my concern indeed, we can end here

I actually agree with this; things would be so much easier to understand if the "Modern High Elves" changed their name to anything else -IDK Silver Elves? anything would be clearer.

Cause again, it's simply an issue of self-denomination at this point, and unlike real life where there's little incentive to make sense from a narrative perspective, this is a constructed world, and the whole discussion would be far more streamlined if we could simply say:

"High Elves split into two groups; Blood Elves in the majority and Silver Elves in the minority. The former exists predominantly on the Horde, while the latter does so on the Alliance and Dalaran"

those things were suggest before, but they die shortly, i think there was also something about highvale elves, storm elves, light elves, wood elves, shit, there was a plethora of names, silver elves would be dope, but people are too much dead on on the name itself and the crusade(both sides) and they don't want to let the bone go, like i seeing before, letting the name go would mean "defeat" for then.

but I also think things would go on a lot smoother if some people just accepted that the modern usage of High Elf is distinct from its pre Third-War incarnation, and I don't get the insistence of willingly obfuscating the issue.

there is some problems with this "acceptance", some people dislike things like "modern usage" because it hijack meanings making then to be different, cause, what is the name of the race then? they stop being the race, because its now used for a selective group? more confusion happens, since not everyone know that much elf lore it causes the same chaos it is now, it feels they are being robbed for their own race.

In short, the problem is how the term still is used to define the race itself to this very day, becausein fac, is what it is, not just the alliance group, thats why a name change for their group would be way better, even for the identify problem, when they label themselves as high elves it gives the impression of the race itself, not just the alliance group, that include the elves of second war and before, when the alliance elves we have today, like you said, are far more different than that in ideology and politic, they did not retain more of the "high elf traits" than the blood elves to "deserve" the name more

the high elf race, splitting in the blood elf an silver elf group would just end the entire debate, and we would not even need void elves at all

-And like I get there will be some people saying "High Elves are the true High Elves because of the name" but I think everyone that actually cares about the nuance know that's just not accurate. Won't deny that's an easy branding to position a group as the true inheritors regardless, so we are back to it being far more simple if Modern High Elves changed their name to something else-

And not everyone cares about those nuances, thats why is so hard to come to a close end.

To me, by now they should completely erase the high elf name form the game and make the alliance elves undergo the transformation in void elves, now they have the look, they can just say the ritual is more controlled, the side effects are minor and you get the power/racials. Things can end there and we will have blood elf x void elf now in the future

[Shibito]

Finally my kul tiran can enjoy the high elf rpers having sex in goldshire.

[Xilurm]

I'm just telling you what the game director said. He said that Void Elves are a flavor of High Elves. Ergo, Void Elves are High Elves. Whatever mental gymnastics you want to go through to convince yourself otherwise are none of my concern.

But that would mean Blood Elves are High Elves too. Aren't Void Elves just a group of Blood Elves that got banished for researching void magic?

Edit: Thing is though... In Telogrus Rift, you see both Blood Elves and High Elves there, probably willing to dabble in and research void magic. So technically, your character can be either of them.

Edit 2: The only thing that's forced upon you is having to side with the Alliance, probably because both of your leaders are Alliance.