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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    It is if Blizzard say it is. I’m sorry to burst your bubble but the lore in Warcraft is made up. It’s not real. So if Blizzard decide that there’s difference between death magic and the covenant abilities then that’s what is relevant in their made up lore.
    The point wasn't whether Blizzard wrote it or not. Of course it is their game and they can do what they want. So that too wasn't this issue.
    Whether or not this change is a contradiction of the lore is the issue. Arm waving about Blizzard doing what they want isn't going to change that.

    The lore is that the Universe of Azeroth has primal forces at work across various dimensions.
    Death, life, light, dark, the void and so forth. All of these forces work in multiple dimensions.

    With the introduction of Shadowlands it was made clear that death related magic and abilities originated in that dimension.
    They also expanded on previous lore claiming that demons got their death powers from there. (I didn't agree with that but that is what they said is the lore). So that means death related powers work outside the shadowlands in the lore.

    The issue is what is a covenant and where does that power come from?
    Why should you be given arcane abilities from within the realm of the dead in the first place?
    Arcane isn't a "death power". Neither are void, shadow, frost and fire abilities and so forth.
    These other powers work in the shadowlands just fine just like living bodies somehow work there as well.
    If these were only death powers unique to the shadowlands that would be one thing, but they aren't.
    These are class/spec abilities that have nothing to do with the realm of death to begin with.
    So technically all of this is a house of cards lore wise no matter how you look at it.
    If shadowlands powers don't work in the living realm then why do powers from the living realm and other realms work there?


    Sure Blizzard can do what they want but that doesn't mean it makes sense.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2020-10-08 at 01:47 PM.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteCharger View Post
    The point wasn't whether Blizzard wrote it or not. Of course it is their game and they can do what they want. So that too wasn't this issue.
    Whether or not this change is a contradiction of the lore is the issue. Arm waving about Blizzard doing what they want isn't going to change that.

    The lore is that the Universe of Azeroth has primal forces at work across various dimensions.
    Death, life, light, dark, the void and so forth. All of these forces work in multiple dimensions.

    With the introduction of Shadowlands it was made clear that death related magic and abilities originated in that dimension.
    (I didn't agree with that but that is what they said is the lore). They also expanded on previous lore claiming that demons got their death powers from there. So that means death related powers work outside the shadowlands in the lore.

    The issue is what is a covenant and where does that power come from?
    Why should you be given arcane abilities from within the realm of the dead in the first place?
    Arcane isn't a "death power". Neither are void, shadow, frost and fire abilities and so forth.
    These other powers work in the shadowlands just fine just like living bodies somehow work there as well.
    If these were only death powers unique to the shadowlands that would be one thing, but they aren't.
    These are class/spec abilities that have nothing to do with the realm of death to begin with.
    So technically all of this is a house of cards lore wise no matter how you look at it.


    Sure Blizzard can do what they want but that doesn't mean it makes sense.
    Most of what Blizzard do doesn’t make.

    I’m just tired of hypocrites who only complain when if affects them. When something affect the min-max’ers then they say “it’s an rpg element” but when something affect them they say “gameplay is most important”...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Inoculate View Post
    You conveniently left out the Ascended, Kel'thuzad, wild gods, and Draka (seen stealing from a legion base in reality).

    All of which still retain their abilities in both the shadowlands and reality. Wild gods arent native the shadowlands and Draka is an agent of the Necrolords not the Jailer.

    You are trying way too hard to white knight this for who knows why but you are just straight up out of your sphere of knowledge on lore to be arguing the point you are.
    I am. You’re right.

    This shit doesn’t make sense. But people are fine with other things that doesn’t make sense either just because it doesn’t impact them directly.

  3. #123

  4. #124
    Whelp this just convinced me to sit out ShadowLands. Going to be a bigger cluster fuck than BFA good Blizzard , you have royally Fucked this game .
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    Oh, I thought the physical CEs got delayed too.
    There's no reason to delay the CE at all. I'm not sure if they still come with discs or not, but if they do then it would just contain partial information (like what is on beta). You always had to download something before you could log on because they would update the game after manufacturing the discs in prior expansions.

  6. #126
    Lmao the "borrowed power" argument getting brought up again like it's anything different. Yeah this change is silly but not game breaking. Some of you literally just have nothing else going on in your life so turning this minor inconvenience into a huge ordeal is exciting because now you have a reason to exist and bitch. What a sad life to live lol

  7. #127
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Should probably note that lorewise this doesn't make sense either, considering you get these powers through pacts, contracts, agreements and rituals performed in accordance with your covenant and you utilise your own soul and anima to use them which you don't lose by leaving the Shadowlands.

    Dumb change.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    There's no reason to delay the CE at all. I'm not sure if they still come with discs or not, but if they do then it would just contain partial information (like what is on beta). You always had to download something before you could log on because they would update the game after manufacturing the discs in prior expansions.


    There is no reason, I agree, and until a day ago I hadn't expected they would, but a few hours ago I watched a video that claimed the physical CEs had been delayed until "some time before the expansion and before December 31", so I figured I had missed something.

    Personally I think physical CEs should always be sent out early from now on, hoping this isn't just because of 2020.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Dystemper View Post
    Whelp this just convinced me to sit out ShadowLands. Going to be a bigger cluster fuck than BFA good Blizzard , you have royally Fucked this game .
    LOL what a drama queen. Really? One ability not being usable outside of the expansion's main zone is a deal breaker? You are dumb as hell.

  10. #130
    at this point they can just delay shadowlands to 10.0

    and to anyone defending this moronic change with "lore reasons"
    Then they should also disable portals out from shadowlands and the moment you enter, you are stuck there til the expansion is done. The portals is only made for gameplay reasons, not lore
    Last edited by glowpipe; 2020-10-08 at 02:12 PM.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunnycutie View Post
    Yeah it's always just an excuse. The Maw not having any story content is just because they don't want to put in the effort of developing that, and the covenant abilities thing only working in the Shadowlands, for the most part, is because they don't want to break old content.
    Explain to me how it could possibly break old content. please. Youre already one shotting everything in old content with your classes' basic abilities anyway.. What does a covenant ability do to break the game in regards to old content?

  12. #132
    Leave it up to Blizzard to make MORE decisions that restrict things. Cause of course we need more shit to restrict our game play. Apparently we are having wayyyyyyy too much fun in this game.

  13. #133
    Good ol' Blizzard finding a way to make borrowed power systems even more borrowed. Blizzard is doing a damn fine job of turning WoW into the next WoW killer.
    Last edited by Deulon; 2020-10-08 at 02:21 PM.
    Guild Master of <Novus> US Area-52

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    “It’s an RPG element” - casuals 2020
    I mean, didn't they say just a couple of days ago that "this is a game after all, so gameplay should come before story"?

    edit: yup

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...Update-October

    "But this is, after all, a video game, and telling that story can’t come at the expense of creating a fun environment for adventurers. We’ve heard feedback that this content is currently falling short of that mark, and we agree."
    Last edited by Voidism; 2020-10-08 at 02:21 PM.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicIsTerrible View Post
    LOL what a drama queen. Really? One ability not being usable outside of the expansion's main zone is a deal breaker? You are dumb as hell.
    This change shows that they are scrambling to finish SL in time because they have to resort to removing aspects of the game that require additional balancing or potential bug fixing. At this point I feel like the expansion will be an incomplete mess like BfA at release.

  16. #136
    This is no longer World of Warcraft, now we got Worlds of Warcraft. What a junk decision.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Kauko View Post
    I always thought this is how it was meant to be... why should I be able to use an ability that uses force from some other world? Sure, its inconvenient, but this is MMORPG!
    And the Maw should be a place that is horrendous and we should not ever want to go there. They said it themselves, This is a videogame and lore doesn't trump gameplay.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    And the Maw should be a place that is horrendous and we should not ever want to go there. They said it themselves, This is a videogame and lore doesn't trump gameplay.
    Lets also not forget we were/are able to use our HoA azerite neck/essences in Warlords of Draenor content, which is an entirely different timeline.
    Guild Master of <Novus> US Area-52

  19. #139
    The "BUT THE LORE!!" defense was literally countered by Blizzard themselves when discussing the Maw, lorewise, being inhospitable and never wanting to be there but gameplay wise wanting to go there for long periods of time. People are literally countering Blizzards own logic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Voidism View Post
    I mean, didn't they say just a couple of days ago that "this is a game after all, so gameplay should come before story"?

    edit: yup

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...Update-October

    "But this is, after all, a video game, and telling that story can’t come at the expense of creating a fun environment for adventurers. We’ve heard feedback that this content is currently falling short of that mark, and we agree."
    Case in point.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Explain to me how it could possibly break old content. please. Youre already one shotting everything in old content with your classes' basic abilities anyway.. What does a covenant ability do to break the game in regards to old content?
    A movement ability like that of the Venthyr has great potential for exploits.

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