What's the scolding horde players get at the start of the Ardenweald's covenant?

[SoundOfGuns]

Yes, is such a big issue. I understand that many horde players are also annoyed by it, but fact is, that the horde did greater damage to the alliance than the scourge, the burning legion and N'zoth together. And not in a grey area, I am only talking about the times when they were clearly acting evil.

No. When exactly? Or are you conflating Thralls Horde with the other Horde... which would still be stupid and inaccurate, but... closerish?

[VladlTutushkin]

Ne’s sending troops to mess with the BE’s lead to them joining the horde so a direct consequence that alliance still deals with.

Varian declaring war on the horde lead to south shore being destroyed The defies coming back due to the war taxing resources from the common man and other hard ships.

Purge of dal stopped the blood elfs from rejoining the alliance and redoubled the distaste between them and the alliance which we see with that one elf in the war of thorns.

Genn breaking the ceasefire was used as a catalyst for sylvanas to start the war of thorns.

Anduins handling the siege of lorderon lead to a bunch of troop deaths and the continuation of the war.

All of these had very real consequences, AU grom not so much.

Exactly. When Alliances messes up it leads to either 1) Huge devastations of Alliance races and lands. 2) Tangible losses. 3) Races switching to the Horde or refusing to join Alliance. 4) Unnecessary drama that nobody needs or wants and endless moralising from Anduin or Jaina.
When Horde messes up it ends up with a pat on the back, cheer up pep talk and moralistic shitfest tale of forgiveness and charity. Oh and they also lose a warchief, yeah thats about as much as they “give” - single scapegoat. Plus we dont even know if Sylvanas will die (likely not) and Vol’Jin now God Loa of Kings’Jin. Cry me a river hordies, cry me an ocean.

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No. When exactly? Or are you conflating Thralls Horde with the other Horde... which would still be stupid and inaccurate, but... closerish?

And horde still blames Muh Camps, Muh Eredar, Muh Azshara summoning dem Demons and Muh Garithos on Alliance. So what?

[Ardenaso]

Alright. Some of these events had their own consequences though, like night elves operating in QT helped to push blood elves into the Horde (thus making enemies with blood elves) and Purge of Dalaran also leading to blood elves neglect Varian's offer to rejoin Alliance.

The only event without any meaningful consequence was Stormheim.

My point is also that when Alliance do something, it's almost always as an answer. Alliance just does not wake up and way "What a lovely sunday morning? What shall we do today? Oh yes, let's raid Horde today." That's what Horde usually do. I'm not saying it's good storywritting, but certain level of proactiveness would be welcomed change for the Alliance. I also guess many Horde players would enjoy not being a cause of pointless war every expansion or two.

while most others could be justified, to be fair there was a one time it did happen though, the Dwarves woke up one day and said "What a lovely sunday morning. Oh yes, let's raid Stonespire ancestral lands and turn it into a desecrated quarry and erase the indigenous people"

[Vaedan]

while most others could be justify, to be fair there was a one time it did happen though, the Dwarves woke up one day and said "What a lovely sunday morning. Oh yes, let's raid Stonespire ancestral lands and turn it into a desecrated quarry and erase the indigenous people"

I guess they had some pretty bad ale the evening before.

[Varodoc]

He's dead now specifically because of the consequences of his warmongering 30 years ago. Literally killed by one of the draenei he enslaved.

The sweet taste of vengeance. Yrel avenged her sister and her master by killing Grommash and driving the vile orcs into submission.

Though Yrel is not amongst my favourite characters, I will acknowledge her strength - from slave to ruler of Draenor, in just 30 years. When you first meet her in WoD she is a beaten slave, now she has all of Draenor under her hoof.

[Jastall]

it wasn't te same, and any race is capable of slaughter

It was far too close to being the same for comfort, and after they got their asses kicked the Draenor Orcs still drank the Fel kool-aid anyway, sans like two clans and exiles from a third.

Everyone's capable of slaughter, but nobody is as eager as the Orcs among the playable factions, or more easily manipulated into being violent douchebags. Original Horde, Nefarian's Horde, Garrosh, Sylvanas, the Iron Horde... It's all becoming too much to excuse. I'd say a bit of scolding isn't uncalled for given that as a faction the Horde has largely evaded any serious consequences for its actions because this is an MMO and the faction must remain playable.

[Darth-Piekus]

[QUOTE=Lolites;52710510]can be said about alliance too...

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A faction that has done more damage than the Scourge or the Legion/QUOTE]

you know NOTHING about lore, do you?
legion destroyed multiple WORLDS... how is anything horde did or will do in next thousand years (bcs burning legions is present for several milenia and does nothing but destroy the whole time) even CLOSE to that level of destruction?!

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1. Sure, lets pretend there is friendly reason to scoop around belfs defense systems (sanctums)...
2. so he wanted answers, but instead of getting informations he rushed into war... even if he didnt believe Sylvanas, looking for answers would be MUCH more helpful than STARTING war against your temporary allied faction...
3. you know JAINA and aliance USED dalaran "neutral" forces to move divine bell to ALLIANCE CITY and defend it there despite being neutral? totaly hordes fault right? bcs that happened before horde went through...
4. not saying Genn didnt have reasons to want Sylvanas dead BUT atacking your ally in time of war is a fucking war crime, no matter you motivation... it was even AGAINST anduins order and Genn didnt even get scolded...
5. atack on Lordaeron you are correct was consequence of Hordes action

so at least 3 of the cases are "started" by alliance and you tried to twist it like its hordes fault... still wanna pretend you are not biased and that alliance is punished when they do something?

While the Legion has destroyed multiple worlds I was mostly talking about who did the most damage in Azeroth. The Horde has done more damage than Legion or the Scourge at this point and of course they have Draenor their own world to the list of destroyed worlds.

[Jastall]

I'm horde and play beta, and I don't see the theater as a scolding. In fact they also talk about how we, maw walkers (that's our nickname in shadowlands, , helped to heal azeroth and killed n'zoth. And the audicence aplaud us at the end ^^

I mostly found the play funny due to Ysera basically /facepalming at more or less everything that happened in BFA. Quite a feat considering she has no palms in her dragon form.

[Nevad]

While the Legion has destroyed multiple worlds I was mostly talking about who did the most damage in Azeroth. The Horde has done more damage than Legion or the Scourge at this point and of course they have Draenor their own world to the list of destroyed worlds.

The Legion did cause the Sundering, the creation of the Lich King and the scourge though this is in part because of the Jailer, the corruption of the Guardian which then leads to the first and second invasion from the old Horde, the destruction of Mount Hyjal, of course not to forget that giant sword that is stuck in Silithus and i am sure there are loads of things i have forgotten. So i think they got the Horde beat pretty handedly when it comes to destruction.

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The sweet taste of vengeance. Yrel avenged her sister and her master by killing Grommash and driving the vile orcs into submission.

Though Yrel is not amongst my favourite characters, I will acknowledge her strength - from slave to ruler of Draenor, in just 30 years. When you first meet her in WoD she is a beaten slave, now she has all of Draenor under her hoof.

Did we ever get too know HOW she came to rule Draenor so quickly? Or was it just a wave of the hand thing like "Yea she went full Light zealot and is now to powerful too stand against, either killing or brainwashing anyone that opposes her".

[Varodoc]

The Legion did cause the Sundering, the creation of the Lich King and the scourge though this is in part because of the Jailer, the corruption of the Guardian which then leads to the first and second invasion from the old Horde, the destruction of Mount Hyjal, of course not to forget that giant sword that is stuck in Silithus and i am sure there are loads of things i have forgotten. So i think they got the Horde beat pretty handedly when it comes to destruction.

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Did we ever get too know HOW she came to rule Draenor so quickly? Or was it just a wave of the hand thing like "Yea she went full Light zealot and is now to powerful too stand against, either killing or brainwashing anyone that opposes her".

The draenei are much more advanced than the orcs and in this case had the element of surprise on their side, and the orcs suffered huge losses due to the Iron Horde's incompetence and chain of failures. Did you count how many orc mobs you killed in WoD? Exactly. That must've had a huge impact on their population.

So then it's not a surprise that the draenei led by Yrel and aided by the naaru themselves (who can scorch huge regions as shown in Revendreth) are able to sweep through all lands of Draenor. In addition, many orcs joined the draenei, convinced by their promises of unity and peace. These orcs are called Lightbound, who further bolster Yrel's troops and are led by Grommash's own son.

Now Yrel and her forces are the dominant power of Draenor, in a complete reversal of WoD. Only Draka and her garrison are left in Nagrand, but I'm sure Yrel won't have much trouble wiping them out.

[Zyky]

Wait, you mean the faction that has twice committed atrocities under dictators but only felt guilty after the dictator turned on them so they could use that person as a scapegoat to avoid punishment?

You want to also talk about the Alliance atrocities working under Monarchs?

[Ardenaso]

He's dead now specifically because of the consequences of his warmongering 30 years ago. Literally killed by one of the draenei he enslaved.

but Yrel already forgave him at the end of WoD; there's no justice or vengenace there. Durotar was one of Yrel's closest friends and allies and yet she murdered him when he refused to followed the Light

and let's say the Legion never arrived on Draenor; i'm sure the Naaru would eventually make their way in there and do what they did on AU Draenor minus former genocidal warmongering orcs

[Grazrug]

The sweet taste of vengeance. Yrel avenged her sister and her master by killing Grommash and driving the vile orcs into submission.

Though Yrel is not amongst my favourite characters, I will acknowledge her strength - from slave to ruler of Draenor, in just 30 years. When you first meet her in WoD she is a beaten slave, now she has all of Draenor under her hoof.

It is always alliance scum that are full of Schadenfreude. You are a horrible person and I hope you step on a lego.

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[QUOTE=Darth-Piekus;52711653]

can be said about alliance too...

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While the Legion has destroyed multiple worlds I was mostly talking about who did the most damage in Azeroth. The Horde has done more damage than Legion or the Scourge at this point and of course they have Draenor their own world to the list of destroyed worlds.

You are alliance fanatics are the worst. You are the most toxic community in the game.

Infracted.

[Nevad]

The draenei are much more advanced than the orcs and in this case had the element of surprise on their side, and the orcs suffered huge losses due to the Iron Horde's incompetence and chain of failures. Did you count how many orc mobs you killed in WoD? Exactly. That must've had a huge impact on their population.

Well seeing how fast they respawned it seemed to me they had a clone facility with inbuilt teleportation so i dont think the amount i kill really had any impact on their population.

So then it's not a surprise that the draenei led by Yrel and aided by the naaru themselves (who can scorch huge regions as shown in Revendreth) are able to sweep through all lands of Draenor. In addition, many orcs joined the draenei, convinced by their promises of unity and peace. These orcs are called Lightbound, who further bolster Yrel's troops and are led by Grommash's own son.

So it got hand waved then.

Join or die/be brainwashed is a compelling argument.

Now Yrel and her forces are the dominant power of Draenor, in a complete reversal of WoD. Only Draka and her garrison are left in Nagrand, but I'm sure Yrel won't have much trouble wiping them out.

Yea its hard to see colour when your view of the world is black and white.

[Varodoc]

Well seeing how fast they respawned it seemed to me they had a clone facility with inbuilt teleportation so i dont think the amount i kill really had any impact on their population.



So it got hand waved then.

Join or die/be brainwashed is a compelling argument.



Yea its hard to see colour when your view of the world is black and white.

I don't see why you have to be so antagonistic towards me, I'm just telling you how the events went down. I don't write the story. If I did, Alleria would already be High Queen of the Alliance and Quel'Thalas.

[Nevad]

I don't see why you have to be so antagonistic towards me, I'm just telling you how the events went down. I don't write the story. If I did, Alleria would already be High Queen of the Alliance and Quel'Thalas.

I'm not being antagonistic at all, if its about the view of the world comment that's about Yrel and I'm sorry i did not make that clear in my comment.
Not too sure id want someone infected (corrupted, steeped in?) by the void as a ruler of a major power but hey too each their own i guess.

[Accendor]

No. When exactly? Or are you conflating Thralls Horde with the other Horde... which would still be stupid and inaccurate, but... closerish?

I am talking about Garroshs Horde, Sylvanas Horde, partly Thralls Horde (see Warsong assaults) and every Horde before.

With Thralls Horde ofc or even Voljins there was a chance for peace.

[gcsmith]

You want to also talk about the Alliance atrocities working under Monarchs?

What atrocity?

[Feanoro]

What atrocity?

Something something, camps, sob sob, a dozen Belfs in Dalaran, wail wail, Taurajo. You know. The Horde attitude, as encouraged by Blizz, is that any blow to the Horde is an atrocity worthy of a war of extermination, while the Alliance is supposed to forgive multiple genocides.

[Aresk]

What atrocity?

If I were to guess, I would assume Arthas's attack on Stratholme and/or Quel'thalas and/or Lordaeron, Garithos' betrayal and attempted execution of the blood elves, Kul'tiras' attempt to exterminate the Darkspear and later the Horde, the dwarves' attack on the Stonespire Tribe, the Alliance assault on Taurajo, potentially the kal'dorei spying on the sin'dorei (that seems like a stretch for an atrocity, though), potentially campaigns against other troll tribes. One might throw Stormheim in there or the goblin miners in Silithus. The extortion of the peasantry surrounding Stormwind.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some, but I'm also sure that if I am, someone will bring it up.