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  1. #1561
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "Of course, the Void considers him its enemy. The Void wants to create the Titan Void and the Jailer wants to kill Azeroth." The Jailer is a threat to every cosmic force. Not just the Void.

    "Of course he poses a threat to the Shadowlands. He took all the anima from them. I can't figure out how you determined that those valves served the Jailer and not Dentarius?" Denathrius took the Anima while serving the Jailer. And the Dreadlords serve Denathrius, who, big shock, SERVES THE JAILER! Also, his power is stated to be a threat to the Shadowlands. Not just his scheming. Once again, you're downplaying.

    "Sargeras and his Legion also threatened reality. Even more, they constantly destroyed POSSIBLE realities (Wandel and Illidan saw this in their visions). And where are they now?" N'Zoth and other guys threatened reality as well. My point is that the Jailer is no different. The fact remains that the Legion isn't really shit anymore tbh, since the Jailer's scheming played the Legion like tools. Hell, the Dreadlord's basically fooled Sargeras into making his Legion, so that more Anima could be provided to the Jailer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    "Tell me, do you adore any character Blizzard is touted as the main villain? A year ago, you were willing to argue with me for weeks to prove how powerful Sargeras or Kil'jaeden are, you adored the Legion as much as the British Bulldog adores the Scourge (and I pointed this out to you several times). Now you prove to me how pitiful the Legion and Sargeras are against the background of the great Jailer." Well yes, cause prior to the Jailer, the Legion was truly a threat. They still were. But now, with the recent Shadowlands reveals, the Jailer is the big dog at the moment. However, I am not "adoring" him, as I still find the Void Lords and the First Ones superior to him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    "Sargeras is not with us on the Throne of the Pantheon, at this moment he defiles Azeroth in the mist form. During the meeting with the Jailer in the Shadowlands starting line, we were not reinforced by anyone and he had a whole army." He's still right next to us.

    "During the meeting with the Jailer in the Shadowlands starting line, we were not reinforced by anyone and he had a whole army." Once again, the Jailer doesn't want us dead. He just wants to laugh at us while his Mawsworn tortures us.

    "The Legion continued to raid us and they constantly tried to kill us, rather than running after us until we found the portal." Isn't that the same thing though? They kept coming for us till we beat them enough where we pushed them back to where they came from?
    Proof? You said about the Void and I told you why the Void doesn't like him. I mean, the Murmur (if you know who it is) impresses me much more than the Jailer.

    God, why do I constantly have to explain such simple things? The book you are referring to was written before the betrayal of Sargeras or even before the creation of the old gods. I ask, how did you determine that the valves at that time served the jailer? or that the denatrius was serving as a jailer at that time? The Primate said that all the Eternals had allied themselves against the Jailer, so they were clearly not always allies with Denatrius.

    How will the Jailer get more anima because of the Legion if the Legion literally uses souls as a source of energy for their ships? Demons very often (but not always) destroy and devour souls.

    Oh, great. I used to argue with fans of Arthas, but now I will argue with fans of the true god of death.

    He is not near us, at least much further than the Jailer who literally runs after us.

    Typical cartoon villain.

    They continued to follow us with the clear aim of killing us. The Jailer just let us go.

  2. #1562
    "God, why do I constantly have to explain such simple things? The book you are referring to was written before the betrayal of Sargeras or even before the creation of the old gods. I ask, how did you determine that the valves at that time served the jailer? or that the denatrius was serving as a jailer at that time? The Primate said that all the Eternals had allied themselves against the Jailer, so they were clearly not always allies with Denatrius." Yes, and everything since then had gone to the Dreadlords' favor, as what they did was a success, for the most part. Also, Denathrius was always on the Jailer's side behind the scenes. He was just smart about it, similar to the Dreadlords and how they were smart with their shit.

    "Proof? You said about the Void and I told you why the Void doesn't like him. I mean, the Murmur (if you know who it is) impresses me much more than the Jailer." He is a threat to every force, not just the Void. Enemy Infiltration, once again, confirms it. Also, Murmur destroyed some planets, while the Jailer schemed a conspiracy that fucked over the Cosmic Chart. While it is not a power feat, it is definitely a feat in its own right.

    "How will the Jailer get more anima because of the Legion if the Legion literally uses souls as a source of energy for their ships? Demons very often (but not always) destroy and devour souls." The Dreadlords could legit just steal mortal souls and give them to the Jailer. They were in a high enough position in the Legion to do such a thing.

    "Oh, great. I used to argue with fans of Arthas, but now I will argue with fans of the true god of death." You don't have to argue at all. The game itself expresses the threat of the Jailer.

    "He is not near us, at least much further than the Jailer who literally runs after us." And the Jailer's just watching the mortals get fucked by his Mawsworn. He doesn't really care to waste time with the other "heroes". Also, I'm pretty sure they updated the starting experience as to where you can't even see the Jailer anymore. I could be wrong though. Either way, he doesn't care enough to stop us himself. Even with us activating the First Ones' relic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    "They continued to follow us with the clear aim of killing us. The Jailer just let us go." Well, he didn't let us go. He still had his Mawsworn come after us in different ways throughout the realms of the Shadowlands. But he himself doesn't have a major presence atm, as he's still trapped inside the Maw.

  3. #1563
    Man this jailer lore is convoluted and the story isn't even released yet.

    Is the jailer a titan in the "death pantheon" or not? This is a key point and no matter which answer is given, it is contradictory.
    So if he is part of the pantheon and created by the shapers or whatever created the shadowlands, then his "role" has always been jailer, right? Or if he is not part of the "death panthion" then why is he acting as the jailer then? And how did this "role" get assigned to him?
    Being someone who has done bad things somewhere wouldn't be given such a role I would think. That is just a contradiction in itself.
    It is like the crazy running the insane asylum. But if the jailer was created as such from the beginning, it is still problematic as to how he became "evil". And either way if he became evil whether created with death pantheon from the beginning or not, if he committed crimes why is he still acting as jailer then? Shouldn't he be in the maw as a soul being punished and not as the "jailer"? Seems like such an overly convoluted story for just one character.


    And above all of that seeing as the Forge of Souls in Icecrown was created explicitly to grind up souls and use their energies for necromantic purposes, that means they never made it to shadowlands. Which would prohibit the creation of anima power.
    Yet somehow the jailer is the one who created these forces? Sure I get it, maybe he was bulding up the soul energy in icecrown.
    Maybe that was always the point to trap the soul energy at a point where it could break through the barrier to the shadowlands.
    But still that means soul energy that was trapped in the world of the living, going against the jailer gaining power from anima.
    Again, I get the so as above so below kind of mirror thing going on but still, having the jailer put all this in motion is a stretch.
    Last edited by InfiniteCharger; 2020-10-10 at 08:28 PM.

  4. #1564
    Sooooo the SLands artbook came out and revealed some nice lore info:

    -the first ones indeed created the universe (referred as “shaped the cosmos”) but I don’t know if that means they were created after the Light and void clashed and the Big Bang happened....OR if the first ones caused the Big Bang

    -the helm of domination was created with the purpose to open the way up for the Jailer to enter Azeroth and also take it over. bolvar was strong enough to resist it (and turn the role of the Lich king into a “jailer” of the damned instead) because he was “seared with the flames of life” ..... implying the power Life cosmic force has over death

    Last edited by CheckThyself; 2020-10-11 at 03:13 AM.

  5. #1565
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "God, why do I constantly have to explain such simple things? The book you are referring to was written before the betrayal of Sargeras or even before the creation of the old gods. I ask, how did you determine that the valves at that time served the jailer? or that the denatrius was serving as a jailer at that time? The Primate said that all the Eternals had allied themselves against the Jailer, so they were clearly not always allies with Denatrius." Yes, and everything since then had gone to the Dreadlords' favor, as what they did was a success, for the most part. Also, Denathrius was always on the Jailer's side behind the scenes. He was just smart about it, similar to the Dreadlords and how they were smart with their shit.

    "Proof? You said about the Void and I told you why the Void doesn't like him. I mean, the Murmur (if you know who it is) impresses me much more than the Jailer." He is a threat to every force, not just the Void. Enemy Infiltration, once again, confirms it. Also, Murmur destroyed some planets, while the Jailer schemed a conspiracy that fucked over the Cosmic Chart. While it is not a power feat, it is definitely a feat in its own right.

    "How will the Jailer get more anima because of the Legion if the Legion literally uses souls as a source of energy for their ships? Demons very often (but not always) destroy and devour souls." The Dreadlords could legit just steal mortal souls and give them to the Jailer. They were in a high enough position in the Legion to do such a thing.

    "Oh, great. I used to argue with fans of Arthas, but now I will argue with fans of the true god of death." You don't have to argue at all. The game itself expresses the threat of the Jailer.

    "He is not near us, at least much further than the Jailer who literally runs after us." And the Jailer's just watching the mortals get fucked by his Mawsworn. He doesn't really care to waste time with the other "heroes". Also, I'm pretty sure they updated the starting experience as to where you can't even see the Jailer anymore. I could be wrong though. Either way, he doesn't care enough to stop us himself. Even with us activating the First Ones' relic.

    - - - Updated - - -

    "They continued to follow us with the clear aim of killing us. The Jailer just let us go." Well, he didn't let us go. He still had his Mawsworn come after us in different ways throughout the realms of the Shadowlands. But he himself doesn't have a major presence atm, as he's still trapped inside the Maw.
    Proof for everything you said about Dentarius?

    Again. This book says that the valves have penetrated all cosmological forces, there is not a word about the Jailer. And this shows the skill of the Ventures, not the personal strength of the Jailer.

    Oh yeah, what else could they?

    Likewise, you said earlier that the game itself shows how strong Kiljaeden is. And then I told you about the Chronicle ...

    He throws Bane off the tower (or off the cliff, I don't remember). He's just a cartoon villain and you are his fanboy because you like the main villains in the universe.

    He could kill us in 0.0000000000000000000000000001 seconds if he's as cool as you say.

  6. #1566
    "Proof for everything you said about Dentarius?" The fact that the Enemy Infiltration shit refers to the "master" as "sire", etc. Must I mention the entire Revendreth campaign?! Oh, and in regards to the Denathrius "reincarnation" bit, Remornia talks about it during Denathrius' death quotes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eSQQPXfK70

    "Again. This book says that the valves have penetrated all cosmological forces, there is not a word about the Jailer. And this shows the skill of the Ventures, not the personal strength of the Jailer." Pretty sure it's still part of the Jailer's plan. Him not being mentioned is kind of the point, as we still don't even know what Zovaal's big "crime" is.

    "Likewise, you said earlier that the game itself shows how strong Kiljaeden is. And then I told you about the Chronicle" Which retcons absolutely nothing. If anything, it gives buffs to characters like the Aspects, etc.

    "He throws Bane off the tower (or off the cliff, I don't remember). He's just a cartoon villain and you are his fanboy because you like the main villains in the universe." I like the Cosmic threats in WoW, yes. Do I fanboy? No. Why would I fanboy to fodder that'll just get scrapped in a single expansion? Also, it's not the first time a Villain just "let" the main guys go like that. *Laughs in the LK, Gul'dan, etc*

    "He could kill us in 0.0000000000000000000000000001 seconds if he's as cool as you say." God, does this apply to literally every single character in fiction ever.

  7. #1567
    Revendreth Sinstones were changed

    Lord Valthaak was changed with Doctor Krastinov
    texts were changed on other sinstones
    Blood Knight description no more cites "manipulated by vile Naaru"
    and so on

  8. #1568
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "Proof for everything you said about Dentarius?" The fact that the Enemy Infiltration shit refers to the "master" as "sire", etc. Must I mention the entire Revendreth campaign?! Oh, and in regards to the Denathrius "reincarnation" bit, Remornia talks about it during Denathrius' death quotes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eSQQPXfK70

    "Again. This book says that the valves have penetrated all cosmological forces, there is not a word about the Jailer. And this shows the skill of the Ventures, not the personal strength of the Jailer." Pretty sure it's still part of the Jailer's plan. Him not being mentioned is kind of the point, as we still don't even know what Zovaal's big "crime" is.

    "Likewise, you said earlier that the game itself shows how strong Kiljaeden is. And then I told you about the Chronicle" Which retcons absolutely nothing. If anything, it gives buffs to characters like the Aspects, etc.

    "He throws Bane off the tower (or off the cliff, I don't remember). He's just a cartoon villain and you are his fanboy because you like the main villains in the universe." I like the Cosmic threats in WoW, yes. Do I fanboy? No. Why would I fanboy to fodder that'll just get scrapped in a single expansion? Also, it's not the first time a Villain just "let" the main guys go like that. *Laughs in the LK, Gul'dan, etc*

    "He could kill us in 0.0000000000000000000000000001 seconds if he's as cool as you say." God, does this apply to literally every single character in fiction ever.


    God, don't you understand what I'm asking at all? I ASK FOR PROOF THAT DENATRIUS SERVED THE JAILER WHILE THIS BOOK IS WRITING.

    Oh, you sure are so great. Can you use proofs? I'm waiting for proofs that the Vents did it for the Jailer.

    I just point out to you that you are always 100% sure of something until I come and explain to you how poorly you really know lore.

    Then why are you so fiercely defending the Jailer in this thread?) Also the Lich King, for example, clearly wanted the heroes to survive because it was part of his plan.

    Um, no. Sargeras almost immediately killed Brox (although he expressed regret that he was killing the creature with such a desire for slaughter).
    Last edited by darkoms; 2020-10-11 at 02:59 PM.

  9. #1569
    Quote Originally Posted by masterjc View Post
    Revendreth Sinstones were changed

    Lord Valthaak was changed with Doctor Krastinov
    Alright... So the doc from Scholomance gets Revendreth but not Sylvanas...

    Ok, you say "the Jailer summoned her to the Maw", why would she willingly help him then if he is the sole reason she went there in the first place? The only explanation would be she's being forced to do his bidding.

  10. #1570
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    God, don't you understand what I'm asking at all? I ASK FOR PROOF THAT DENATRIUS SERVED THE JAILER WHILE THIS BOOK IS WRITING.

    Oh, you sure are so great. Can you use proofs? I'm waiting for proofs that the Vents did it for the Jailer.

    I just point out to you that you are always 100% sure of something until I come and explain to you how poorly you really know lore.

    Then why are you so fiercely defending the Jailer in this thread?) Also the Lich King, for example, clearly wanted the heroes to survive because it was part of his plan.

    Um, no. Sargeras almost immediately killed Brox (although he expressed regret that he was killing the creature with such a desire for slaughter).
    "God, don't you understand what I'm asking at all? I ASK FOR PROOF THAT DENATRIUS SERVED THE JAILER WHILE THIS BOOK IS WRITING." Why would Denathrius do all of this with the Dreadlords alone? He was working with Zovaal during this. It's kinda obvious. Doesn't help that, once again, the Dreadlords mention "sire", etc.

    How am I "unknowledgeable" over the Lore when it's literally clear that the Jailer and Denathrius are clear bros, and it's seemingly always been that way? Don't you also still count the Chronicles as something to be taken 120% seriously, even tho it's been retconned or proved to be biased on more than 1 account?

    "Then why are you so fiercely defending the Jailer in this thread?) Also the Lich King, for example, clearly wanted the heroes to survive because it was part of his plan." I'm not "defending" anyone. I'm telling you that the Jailer's just that powerful, which is true. Also, the Jailer's 100% doing the same thing the LK did, just with a completely different motive in mind. The LK wanted to use us to stop the Legion and Void, while the Jailer wants to use us for pure Cosmic domination and evil shit.

    "Um, no. Sargeras almost immediately killed Brox (although he expressed regret that he was killing the creature with such a desire for slaughter)." Well, yes. But, he also didn't do much to Brox but laugh at him, before Brox gave him the small, ineffective but showcased "wound".

  11. #1571
    Wow talk about spin. Now the Jailer is evil but the Lich King is good and I guess the Legion and Sargeras misunderstood all this time?

    LOL!

  12. #1572
    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    "God, don't you understand what I'm asking at all? I ASK FOR PROOF THAT DENATRIUS SERVED THE JAILER WHILE THIS BOOK IS WRITING." Why would Denathrius do all of this with the Dreadlords alone? He was working with Zovaal during this. It's kinda obvious. Doesn't help that, once again, the Dreadlords mention "sire", etc.

    How am I "unknowledgeable" over the Lore when it's literally clear that the Jailer and Denathrius are clear bros, and it's seemingly always been that way? Don't you also still count the Chronicles as something to be taken 120% seriously, even tho it's been retconned or proved to be biased on more than 1 account?

    "Then why are you so fiercely defending the Jailer in this thread?) Also the Lich King, for example, clearly wanted the heroes to survive because it was part of his plan." I'm not "defending" anyone. I'm telling you that the Jailer's just that powerful, which is true. Also, the Jailer's 100% doing the same thing the LK did, just with a completely different motive in mind. The LK wanted to use us to stop the Legion and Void, while the Jailer wants to use us for pure Cosmic domination and evil shit.

    "Um, no. Sargeras almost immediately killed Brox (although he expressed regret that he was killing the creature with such a desire for slaughter)." Well, yes. But, he also didn't do much to Brox but laugh at him, before Brox gave him the small, ineffective but showcased "wound".
    What do you mean why? In your opinion, only the Jailer benefits from weakening other forces? This is exactly what the Dreadlords say sire, in relation to DENATRIUS. I DON'T DOUBT THAT THE VENT FROM THIS BOOK SERVED DENTARIUS I ASK YOU FOR PROOF THAT AT THIS MOMENT DENATRIUS SERVED THE JAILER. Why should I repeat the same thing 4 times? This book was written tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years ago, when the Pantheon was still united, when the Void Lords did not even create the Old Gods. How did you determine that Denatrius was serving the Jailer at that time? How???????

    LOL what? Where is it said that the Jailer and Denatrius are brothers? What are you talking about? The Primate says that long ago the Eternals locked the Jailer in the Womb together. Do you think Denatriya was not with them at that moment?

    We have no idea how strong the Jailer is. Blizzard hasn't even decided whether the Eternals are a Titan level or not, for they recently said that the Winter Queen is weaker than the Titans. You only see what you want to see.

    What did the Jailer do? Was he just running after us?
    Last edited by darkoms; 2020-10-11 at 04:14 PM.

  13. #1573
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    What do you mean why? In your opinion, only the Jailer benefits from weakening other forces? This is exactly what the Dreadlords say sire, in relation to DENATRIUS. I DON'T DOUBT THAT THE VENT FROM THIS BOOK SERVED DENTARIUS I ASK YOU FOR PROOF THAT AT THIS MOMENT DENATRIUS SERVED THE JAILER. Why should I repeat the same thing 4 times? This book was written tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years ago, when the Pantheon was still united, when the Void Lords did not even create the Old Gods. How did you determine that Denatrius was serving the Jailer at that time? How???????

    LOL what? Where is it said that the Jailer and Denatrius are brothers? What are you talking about? The Primate says that long ago the Eternals locked the Jailer in the Womb together. Do you think Denatriya was not with them at that moment?

    We have no idea how strong the Jailer is. Blizzard hasn't even decided whether the Eternals are a Titan level or not, for they recently said that the Winter Queen is weaker than the Titans. You only see what you want to see.

    What did the Jailer do? Was he just running after us?
    While you are right, you are missing one possibility, especially since we are talking about something so long ago. Jailer and Denarius (and other Ethernal ones) clearly worked together before his betrayal and banishment. So it's possible that the infiltration plan was devised before that.

  14. #1574
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    What do you mean why? In your opinion, only the Jailer benefits from weakening other forces? This is exactly what the Dreadlords say sire, in relation to DENATRIUS. I DON'T DOUBT THAT THE VENT FROM THIS BOOK SERVED DENTARIUS I ASK YOU FOR PROOF THAT AT THIS MOMENT DENATRIUS SERVED THE JAILER. Why should I repeat the same thing 4 times? This book was written tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years ago, when the Pantheon was still united, when the Void Lords did not even create the Old Gods. How did you determine that Denatrius was serving the Jailer at that time? How???????

    LOL what? Where is it said that the Jailer and Denatrius are brothers? What are you talking about? The Primate says that long ago the Eternals locked the Jailer in the Womb together. Do you think Denatriya was not with them at that moment?

    We have no idea how strong the Jailer is. Blizzard hasn't even decided whether the Eternals are a Titan level or not, for they recently said that the Winter Queen is weaker than the Titans. You only see what you want to see.

    What did the Jailer do? Was he just running after us?
    Idk why you think Denathrius alone would want to cause an entire Cosmic imbalance just for his sake alone, when it's clear as day that he serves the Jailer. Like, come on, dude. It's right there. Also, when I say they're "bros", I do not mean brothers. I mean as "friends" or "allies", which is clearly the case in Shadowlands. The whole Enemy Infiltration thing probably happened before the Jailer got banished. Ever stopped to think why the Jailer got banished to begin with? This could be the case. Ever thought that, one day, Denathrius and the Jailer just decided to bring an imbalance to the entire Warcraft Cosmos? Ever thought that people could team up together for some evil plans? Not like this has happened at all in Fiction before...

    Oh wait, it has!

    "The Primate says that long ago the Eternals locked the Jailer in the Womb together. Do you think Denatriya was not with them at that moment" Denathrius was probably doing what he's always been doing, though. AKA playing the long game by "acting" like he's serving the purpose, when in reality, he's still on Zovaal's side, and is communicating with him in the Maw from Revendreth (Considering he literally has mirrors in Nathria where he can see and manipulate events in all the Shadowlands and beyond, if you look through the Dungeon Journal). Also, what's with you getting the Eternal Ones' names wrong?

    "We have no idea how strong the Jailer is. Blizzard hasn't even decided whether the Eternals are a Titan level or not, for they recently said that the Winter Queen is weaker than the Titans. You only see what you want to see." The Eternal Ones are "on par with Titans", only for others to say "They're kinda below them", yes. However, even with the inconsistencies, the Jailer's still "Titan Level" in some interviews, and "Titan++ Level" in WoWhead's version, which I take more seriously than the other site you linked, as it's one of the more official WoW news forums.

    "What did the Jailer do? Was he just running after us?" No, he was also torturing all of our Racial Leaders for weeks on end, maybe even months (To them, at least), all while wanting us for a clear reason (Probably to raise us as Mawsworn) in order to claim Azeroth's world soul, and the cosmos to death.

    I'm sorry, what's so hard to understand here? Is it really that hard to understand that the Jailer's this threatening? Sorry you dislike the current lore, but that's the way it is. I have you blocked for this reason alone, dude. You're very irritating to argue with, and it's unfortunate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm done arguing this situation, to be honest. If you and I want more emphasis on the Jailer's power, then we'll wait when the Expansion's either officially out, or when the Expansion progresses through each patch.

  15. #1575
    Quote Originally Posted by LazarusLong View Post
    While you are right, you are missing one possibility, especially since we are talking about something so long ago. Jailer and Denarius (and other Ethernal ones) clearly worked together before his betrayal and banishment. So it's possible that the infiltration plan was devised before that.
    Yes, it is possible. But in any case, the vents serve Denatrius and did it on his orders, and not on the orders of the Jailer as this guy is trying to prove.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HighlordJohnstone View Post
    Idk why you think Denathrius alone would want to cause an entire Cosmic imbalance just for his sake alone, when it's clear as day that he serves the Jailer. Like, come on, dude. It's right there. Also, when I say they're "bros", I do not mean brothers. I mean as "friends" or "allies", which is clearly the case in Shadowlands. The whole Enemy Infiltration thing probably happened before the Jailer got banished. Ever stopped to think why the Jailer got banished to begin with? This could be the case. Ever thought that, one day, Denathrius and the Jailer just decided to bring an imbalance to the entire Warcraft Cosmos? Ever thought that people could team up together for some evil plans? Not like this has happened at all in Fiction before...

    Oh wait, it has!

    "The Primate says that long ago the Eternals locked the Jailer in the Womb together. Do you think Denatriya was not with them at that moment" Denathrius was probably doing what he's always been doing, though. AKA playing the long game by "acting" like he's serving the purpose, when in reality, he's still on Zovaal's side, and is communicating with him in the Maw from Revendreth (Considering he literally has mirrors in Nathria where he can see and manipulate events in all the Shadowlands and beyond, if you look through the Dungeon Journal). Also, what's with you getting the Eternal Ones' names wrong?

    "We have no idea how strong the Jailer is. Blizzard hasn't even decided whether the Eternals are a Titan level or not, for they recently said that the Winter Queen is weaker than the Titans. You only see what you want to see." The Eternal Ones are "on par with Titans", only for others to say "They're kinda below them", yes. However, even with the inconsistencies, the Jailer's still "Titan Level" in some interviews, and "Titan++ Level" in WoWhead's version, which I take more seriously than the other site you linked, as it's one of the more official WoW news forums.

    "What did the Jailer do? Was he just running after us?" No, he was also torturing all of our Racial Leaders for weeks on end, maybe even months (To them, at least), all while wanting us for a clear reason (Probably to raise us as Mawsworn) in order to claim Azeroth's world soul, and the cosmos to death.

    I'm sorry, what's so hard to understand here? Is it really that hard to understand that the Jailer's this threatening? Sorry you dislike the current lore, but that's the way it is. I have you blocked for this reason alone, dude. You're very irritating to argue with, and it's unfortunate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm done arguing this situation, to be honest. If you and I want more emphasis on the Jailer's power, then we'll wait when the Expansion's either officially out, or when the Expansion progresses through each patch.
    What does clear as day mean? Are you so overwhelmed with lore knowledge that you can determine the full scale of the plot from a couple of sentences in the in-game book? Denatrius serves the Jailer NOW. I'm asking for proof that he served the Jailer at that time. Do you really not understand or are you just kidding?

    Again, will you give me any proofs? I'm not surprised. Okay, I'll call them Eternal Ones if you find it easier.

    Yes, and in one of the interviews, all Eternal Ones were called equal Titans, but recently it was said that the Winter Queen is weaker than the Titans. We have no idea how strong they are, so we have to wait for more information.

    Then why let us go? What stopped us from killing us right there and taking our souls? You’re just trying to justify this wretched little line in which we run away from a cartoon villain, while trying to prove that he is meaner and scarier than Sargeras.

    So dangerous? Why? Because wowhead said he was titan ++? The description of the evil that can break out and destroy everything can apply to the entire army of the Maw. Damn it, the game says that Argus could destroy the entire universe with one spell and we still defeated him. So are you really trying to say that the Jailer is a super scary threat, and Blizzard did not write nonsense again to make the raid boss seem scarier?

  16. #1576
    The jailer is so fucking lame . The dude can't even kill us and he supposed to be above sargeras level threat ? ppfff , don't make me laugh .

    Also , i see that the writers managed to gave him a new and original goal to achi- oh no , nevermind it's the same crap we had for 10+ years : destroy azeroth . Much wow .

    Also :
    Blizz : we won't touch arthas's story too much as we don't want him to lose his luster and presence.
    Also blizzard : *retcon the shit of of him to have him be nothing more than a speck of dust in the plan of their new cardboard vilain , the jailer .*
    Last edited by naeblis495; 2020-10-12 at 12:05 AM.

  17. #1577
    Quote Originally Posted by naeblis495 View Post
    Blizz : we won't touch arthas's story too much as we don't want him to lose his luster and presence.
    Also blizzard : *retcon the shit of of him to have him be nothing more than a speck of dust in the plan of their new cardboard vilain , the jailer .*
    Arthas always sucked.

  18. #1578
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Alright... So the doc from Scholomance gets Revendreth but not Sylvanas...

    Ok, you say "the Jailer summoned her to the Maw", why would she willingly help him then if he is the sole reason she went there in the first place? The only explanation would be she's being forced to do his bidding.
    My guess is it's like with all the others that are working for him (apart from the dreadlords). He tells them all of their suffering happens, because the system is shit and he knows, because he was the system's first victim and has been suffering like they are for eons now. But he leaves out the bit where he is the whole reason the system is shit.
    I don't think Sylvanas knows she went to the Maw because the Jailer made her go there. She just thinks it because of 'the system' and then he offered her a way out. Deal!

  19. #1579
    Quote Originally Posted by Houle View Post
    quote from wowhead that sums it up pretty well
    He might be that dangerous when unleashed, not right now.

    Plus I'd rather the Titan++ thing not be borne out by the actual story. We don't need every subsequent final boss being even more overpowered and needing even more plot devices to beat because the lore props them up as reality-destroying uberbeings otherwise. That was N'zoth's downfall as a villain; objectively he came very, very close to mind controlling us which would have been gg no re for all of reality. We needed no less than four plot devices to barely stop him (Heart of Azeroth, cloak, dagger, Forge of Origination). But because he was so big and powerful we still had to finish him off via big ol' lazer beam so it looked like he went down as the chumpiest chump to ever chump.
    It is all that is left unsaid upon which tragedies are built -Kreia

    The internet: where to every action is opposed an unequal overreaction.

  20. #1580
    Quote Originally Posted by masterjc View Post
    Revendreth Sinstones were changed

    Lord Valthaak was changed with Doctor Krastinov
    texts were changed on other sinstones
    Blood Knight description no more cites "manipulated by vile Naaru"
    and so on
    This is actually one of the odd cases that they are steadily changing lore on the drop of a dime on a PTR or somehow SOOOOO much is placeholder that we don't know is within the beta.

    It's funny because there becomes this duality of we shouldn't pay much attention because so much is changing, but then is it changing because we are paying attention.... normally the biggest changes on a beta or ptr to this degree was Tyrande's Silence getting removed because one of the people running wowhead said it was sexist so they got bullied into doing so. Otherwise there normally isn't this much change especially this close to release(granted it got pushed back but still)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    He might be that dangerous when unleashed, not right now.

    Plus I'd rather the Titan++ thing not be borne out by the actual story. We don't need every subsequent final boss being even more overpowered and needing even more plot devices to beat because the lore props them up as reality-destroying uberbeings otherwise. That was N'zoth's downfall as a villain; objectively he came very, very close to mind controlling us which would have been gg no re for all of reality. We needed no less than four plot devices to barely stop him (Heart of Azeroth, cloak, dagger, Forge of Origination). But because he was so big and powerful we still had to finish him off via big ol' lazer beam so it looked like he went down as the chumpiest chump to ever chump.
    He was one of the chumpiest chumps to ever chump though. The only reason he even got close was Sylvanas had planned it that way. I'm pretty sure she had a contingency plan in place with the jailer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Alright... So the doc from Scholomance gets Revendreth but not Sylvanas...

    Ok, you say "the Jailer summoned her to the Maw", why would she willingly help him then if he is the sole reason she went there in the first place? The only explanation would be she's being forced to do his bidding.
    Much less was her short story all a lie? The jailer was never mentioned there and it was written from a first person thing. Is she lying in her own head?

    Also what really would have sent her to either the maw or Reven when she died in WotLK(or after)? She only really became even more ruthless after. Realistically she should have been Maldraxus if anything up to WotLK

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