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  1. #961
    Quote Originally Posted by muten roshi View Post
    And has the value of gold increased with BFA because of that?
    Of course it is. What I said was that the gold still continued to lose value even after WoD. So it's not the missions. It's the WoW token.
    So um...
    typically when people talk about currency changing its value in a game there are three types of tasks:
    Gold inflator(reduce value)-Adds to the quantity of gold... mission tables, pants shuffle, and looting are good examples
    Neutral transactions(don't effect value)-Transfers the gold from one location to another without loss... opening a trade with someone in which you pass gold. Putting it in your bank and taking it out
    Gold sync(increase value)- Gold being used in a transaction in which value is lost(Buying items off venders, Buying consumables(including mounts), Using the AH

    Some syncs are unnoticeable(mailing costs for example). Some are HUGE(5million mount)

    I honestly have no clue if Bliz takes a cut on tokens. But either way it is either Neutral or a Gold sync.

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Ahh yes I remember passing my bank details over when I won at Street Fighter or in iRacing. Every game is pay to win boys because you have to pay to play.
    It all depends how you define winning.

    If oay to win is just beating the game on your account/system then ofc you could??

    Your definition of pay to win is kinda sqewed. Allthough i'm against boosting services in general they exist allmost everywhere now.
    Extremism and radicalisation is the bane of society

  3. #963
    Immortal Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    Imagine paying a sub to a game only to grind for money to pay for sub to the game, barely having any time to actually PLAY the game.
    Math sure is hard.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  4. #964
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Ahh yes I remember passing my bank details over when I won at Street Fighter or in iRacing. Every game is pay to win boys because you have to pay to play.
    I don't remember doing any of those things you listed that made wow pay to win.

    By your logic. It doesn't matter if you did as long as the ability to do so is there.
    MMO-Champ the place where calling out trolls get you into more trouble than trolling.

  5. #965
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    Did you perhaps miss world first guilds paying for BoEs with gold bought from tokens in recent tiers? Because that seems to fit your criteria.
    They also have sponsers and stuff. That doesn't mean the game requires you to have sponsers. World first guilds are not the norm and they have always "bought" their way in that race. Them taking out loans to buy BoE's is nothing new. It can just be done with legal rmt through the token now but as I referenced earlier they seem to prefer loans that they can recoup through boosting rather then spending real money.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  6. #966
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Butt Witch View Post
    Imagine paying a sub to a game only to grind for money to pay for sub to the game, barely having any time to actually PLAY the game.
    I was referring to grinding gold for a mount that is optional to buy. Not for grinding gold to pay for a token.
    Putin khuliyo

  7. #967
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolites View Post
    is there anyone apart from guilds trying to compete for world first like Method or Limit actualy wiling to spend some 80-120euro to buy single item?
    if so, i pity the fool
    Exactly this shit right here. If you're not pushing world firsts, stay in your fucking lane and be happy with your ilvl450-465 grind in normal/heroic/warfronts.

  8. #968
    Quote Originally Posted by muten roshi View Post
    Of course it is. What I said was that the gold still continued to lose value even after WoD. So it's not the missions. It's the WoW token.
    What you said originally was: It wasn't the garrison that created inflation, it was the WoW token.

    That's a direct quote of you. And that's is wrong.

    Garrisons was a big part of the foundation of the inflation we see today. And it's not just about "whales" because A LOT of people took advantage of the Garrisons back then. And it also continued into Legion. It was not as lucrative as Garrisons but you could still make millions from the Class Order Halls with Alts. So Garrisons and Class Order Halls is a BIG part of the inflation.

    Therefore, what you said originally was completely wrong. Maybe you meant something else but what you directly said was wrong.

  9. #969
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post

    Just look at the pricing differences between these two almost identical mounts. One from MoP one from BFA.

    There is no reason to put mounts behind these insane prices other than pushing people to buy the wow-token.
    No, it is called gold sink. Thete was too much gold on the marked, and too many people had miliona of gold.

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    Then you are one of very few and wealthy players, I can assure you the vast majority of players dont amass those numbers.

    There were a clik of opportunists that made bank during WoD and Legion, not everybody. So I dont agree with the inflation-argument.
    even if you only had one toon, if you did your chores every day in that one guy, that was 70-90k a week. The fact that he ONLY came out with 1.5mil is the exceptional part of his statement.

    I played casually through all of WoD and Legion. I played from Vanilla Beta - Early Cata, bailed out for all the rest and MoP, and came back for WoD.

    I was about done with WoD when the token debuted, and i continued to play because for very little time investment (not even an hour a day that i could do in 10 minute segments in between other things) i could get WoW to pay for itself and still clear TONS of gold - which i turned into Bnet money so i could buy SC2 (xpacs), i bought Destiny 2, bought a few store mounts - all with gold... and STILL cleared 6+ mil in WoD alone.

    I started with only 2 max level characters (all through Vanilla - LK, i only had one toon, and added a second only months before Cata). I added a 3rd by finally leveling a DK (but i could already fly, etc, so it was joke easy), and used my free 100 on a Hunter. I didn't max out gear on any of these toons - just full sets of honor gear because you could get the entire current set in about six hours in Ashran. Built their garrisons, money rolled in.

    I added a Paladin at the end of WoD (about 4 months before the end) because i wanted to casually PvP as Prot-disrupter and annoy people. Didnt really end up doing that, but for about 3 months, another fully built Garrison-cow.

    Going into Legion, i spent the first 2-3 months on my Main, not really leveling any alts. Still playing casually, though for the first six months, maybe 2 hours a day (not ever day, averaging it out over the week), leveling all my toons to 110 and adding an S. Priest with my freebie.

    Legion wasn't *as good* as WoD (class halls were not AS lucrative), but Garrisons were still worth doing once/week because you can actually turn Garrison Resources into cash via Primals and expendables. Its not worth doing every day, but once a week per toon it takes 10 minutes to make 1k gold or so. And you can still get the Gronnling mount and other stuff that sells for thousands on each toon (the All-WoD-Reps token was still 5k each when i quit playing BfA after 3 months). And each developed class hall could easily generate 25k a week.

    I walked out of Legion at over 11 million. After the first six months, i only played ~45min a day on average. Kept my toons in perfectly servicable normal-raid iLevel gear via the upgradeable craftables, which was fine for farming/doing WQs needed to make the Class Hall work.

    At this point i was still doing it only because "basicall WoW is free/paying for itself" and i could turn gold into money to buy other Blizz Products, but it wasnt exactly difficult. And i wasn't even parsimonious with my money. If i saw smething on the AH that i wanted (i like to collect mounts, i was near hitting the new cheevs when i bailed out of BfA) i just bought it.

    It really wasnt that hard, and i learned most of it from fellow casuals. You basically had to try NOT to make money.

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by Vidhjerta View Post
    Should every mount be a gold-sink? Historically there have been very few of those, now it seems baseline more than "goldsink".
    This. Also those previous sinks, like the spider, were unique. Even the Argus Warframe, one could argue was worth its price. But now its 10/50/100/500-thousand for "common" rep rewards.

  12. #972
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReleaseDay View Post
    This. Also those previous sinks, like the spider, were unique. Even the Argus Warframe, one could argue was worth its price. But now its 10/50/100/500-thousand for "common" rep rewards.
    Does it really matter? The best mounts imo are the ones you earn through skill and group play.

  13. #973
    Quote Originally Posted by TigTone View Post
    Does it really matter? The best mounts imo are the ones you earn through skill and group play.
    Well, the best mounts imo are those who are the most unique.

  14. #974
    I don't think there's anything wrong with having very powerful options able to be sold on the auction house. Whining about that kind of stuff is part of what has absolutely destroyed craftables weapons/armor being much good, and thus, has sort of continued to make crafting professions more and more worthless. (Hell, if it were up to me, I'd make it so at least one of every armor type's armor piece BiS was a crafted BoE, at the very least, and it'd be a fun adventure with a lot of work to get said recipes, as is, the economy and crafting in this game fucking blow)

  15. #975
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    What you said originally was: It wasn't the garrison that created inflation, it was the WoW token.

    That's a direct quote of you. And that's is wrong.
    No, it's not and I explained why.

  16. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunzi View Post
    It wasn't just missing the boat. Mission table gold-farming is fucking boring. A lot of players knew about it but couldn't be bothered with such terrible gameplay, even for a very lucrative reward.
    I agree. I was one of those players. I think it was a mistake on Blizzard's part. But the ship has sailed, and quite a few players made metric tons of gold using the system. Blizzard had to introduce gold sinks to help mitigate the situation and keep inflation from wrecking those that didn't get in on the gold harvest.

  17. #977
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    You're missing the point here. I'll quote myself again



    Just because you "can" do everything without paying to win, it doesn't mean you can't pay to win. And in the end the "winners" are all paying, a great deal of real money goes into the world first races. Pay 2 win isn't about exclusive power gains from real world cash, it's about the game catering to players who want the "option" to gain through real world cash.

    Can you gain a significant competitive advantage if you partake in the "P2W" aspects? Absolutely, and it happens all the time, it's a big part of the competitive side of the game. To say otherwise is to be in denial, mental gymnastics only serve to help you fool yourself on this matter.
    Bro. If you spend $300 on gear and somebody has the same exact gear as you or better that was earned organically then the game isn't pay to win.

  18. #978
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They also have sponsers and stuff. That doesn't mean the game requires you to have sponsers. World first guilds are not the norm and they have always "bought" their way in that race. Them taking out loans to buy BoE's is nothing new. It can just be done with legal rmt through the token now but as I referenced earlier they seem to prefer loans that they can recoup through boosting rather then spending real money.
    P2W being "legal" isn't exactly what I call winning the gold standard for ethical game development.

  19. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    P2W being "legal" isn't exactly what I call winning the gold standard for ethical game development.
    The idea that this is P2W in a real sense remains a giant ridiculous joke, though.

    This is "pay bazillions of in-game gold to gain a slight advantage", which is how WoW has always been, and indeed how a lot of MMOs have been. Claiming this is P2W and it's new is just lying. Either almost all MMORPGs were always pay to win, or this is nothing new.

    This shit about RMT is bullshit AFAICT. There's nothing any of the articles about tokens. That's a conspiracy theory that people who can't do basic math think is true. The articles are really clear - they took out in-game loans. Not out-of-game loans. Not RMT via tokens. Why would they even do tokens? It doesn't even make sense.

    RTFA - https://www.pcgamesn.com/world-of-wa...mplexity-limit

    Where are the tokens? Where's the real money?

    It's not there. So you claiming P2W is some immense bullshit. Then borrowed and begged gold off people. They say so really clearly. They were begging it off people on Twitter even. If they were going via tokens, that wouldn't be the approach.

    I'm sure there are smaller, more incompetent guilds that absolutely have tried shit like buying a giant stack of tokens to afford one piece of gear (it ain't cheap - 5 million gold is about 25 tokens, i.e. $500), but it's not the way you work it at the top. Those aren't the guilds winning the races.

  20. #980
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    The idea that this is P2W in a real sense remains a giant ridiculous joke, though.

    [...]
    Trades which are invariably being used in otherwise fair competition (by which many derive their entertainment and value in their experiences for this game) where not everyone has the same opportunities is undeniably unfair. The people with jobs and sponsorships associated with these kinds of exchanges, even if they were going to win anyway, will continue to get additional funding and continue to be able to have these advantages others don't have as easily or otherwise have to work or achieve on their own time and effort without. The fact is that the nature of the competition is unfair because of the nature of gold being a purchasable commodity, even when it isn't being strictly used. It is not a fair situation and presents a continuation where the competition could get more and more unfair and imbalanced in the future because the existing tokens allow for this kind of power buying to even be possible in the first place. It's not right.

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