WOW- Now pay to win?

[Toybox]

Buying tokens to buy BoE corruptions, Ny'alotha WF-race comes to mind.

That gave you an advantage, not an "I-win" button. You still had to be good enough to clear the raid. Give 20 LFR raiders £5000 in WoW tokens to mop up all the BiS pieces they could from the AH & they'd still struggle on Wrathion.

So the game isn't pay to win, unless you think buying a boost so it looks like you've cleared 12/12M or hit Gladiator to be winning. Can you pay for an advantage though? 100%, that's definitely a thing.

[Foszil]

Well you can't get your entire gear from boes

[loras]

I see 475ilvl items with socket and good corruption for like 2-3 million on the AH. So now ppl buy wow tokens for real life money and then buy this items...

Is this good gameplay or not? Pay to win?

Blizzard probly happy about it as they earn more $$$




EDIT: What i mean by p2w is win the damage meter. More dps make dungeon/raid/pvp easyer. One with buyed BIS for real life money VS one with no corrupt or a bad one. Who would you put your money on? Who would you like to have in your raid/dungeon/arena. Also my english are pretty bad so sorry for not explaining so all understand. I did my best, sorry.


VERY funny thing is that i asked both if its good gameplay and if its P2W. None/few answer if its good gameplay. All get stuck if its P2W instead. Ppl are funny

Apparently Preach Gaming have a video about it.

"Time is money, friend!"

Let's be honest, grinding (and by extension luck) is also money spent on the game, mmorpgs are just very vulnerable in that sense.

Only way to really undercut that is to make the grind itself fun so that it is unnoticed, as well as easy enough to do so that its value is not inflated.

[Baneto]

That gave you an advantage, not an "I-win" button. You still had to be good enough to clear the raid. Give 20 LFR raiders £5000 in WoW tokens to mop up all the BiS pieces they could from the AH & they'd still struggle on Wrathion.

So the game isn't pay to win, unless you think buying a boost so it looks like you've cleared 12/12M or hit Gladiator to be winning. Can you pay for an advantage though? 100%, that's definitely a thing.

You're arguing semantics now, it granted them the win so its a means to an end that was winning.

In some aspects, the game absolutely is pay to win, I dont know why people wont accept this its like theyre trying to defend the game or something.

[ymirsson]

You're arguing semantics now, it granted them the win so its a means to an end that was winning.

In some aspects, the game absolutely is pay to win, I dont know why people wont accept this its like theyre trying to defend the game or something.

It's like your semantics are only ever in your favor, funny thing isn't it?

[Toybox]

You're arguing semantics now, it granted them the win so its a means to an end that was winning.

In some aspects, the game absolutely is pay to win, I dont know why people wont accept this its like theyre trying to defend the game or something.

How am I arguing semantics? Like I said, it all comes down to what you define as winning... If you think having a high item level is winning, then yeah, I guess WoW is pay to win, since all you need to do is buy tokens & spend them on getting boosted through whatever content you can afford. But typically, to win, you need to overcome something, & the harder that thing is to overcome the more you feel like the win was worth it. The 400+ pulls we spent on some bosses led to a real feeling of winning - the 380k I spent paying a guild to boost me for Ironhoof Destroyer back in Warlords because I was unsubbed during the raid tier wasn't winning.

I'm not trying to defend the game, by the way. 8.3 has been one of the worst patches in memory, & BfA is by some considerable distance the worst expansion I've ever played But this isn't the thread for that.

[Baneto]

How am I arguing semantics? Like I said, it all comes down to what you define as winning... If you think having a high item level is winning, then yeah, I guess WoW is pay to win, since all you need to do is buy tokens & spend them on getting boosted through whatever content you can afford. But typically, to win, you need to overcome something, & the harder that thing is to overcome the more you feel like the win was worth it. The 400+ pulls we spent on some bosses led to a real feeling of winning - the 380k I spent paying a guild to boost me for Ironhoof Destroyer back in Warlords because I was unsubbed during the raid tier wasn't winning.

I'm not trying to defend the game, by the way. 8.3 has been one of the worst patches in memory, & BfA is by some considerable distance the worst expansion I've ever played

Yeah I agree, I guess different people define things differently, not that shocking really but it is what it is.

Cant wait for prepatch and see some changes finally coming our way after this patch.

[Eurhetemec]

So the game isn't pay to win, unless you think buying a boost so it looks like you've cleared 12/12M or hit Gladiator to be winning. Can you pay for an advantage though? 100%, that's definitely a thing.

Yeah, that's the real problem here. The idea that the race was won by tokens is not true - the money that the guilds got, they got from borrowing and begging from the WoW mega-rich. But the money that people use to buy boosts often DOES come from tokens, and buying boosts is so routine now that it's basically devalued achievements (though I guess some people still value them, maybe because being willing to spend $20-$60 on getting them means you're in some way "committed"? Seems mad to me). That's more like "P2pretendtobegood" though. Seems like those people who hire a hooker and tell everyone they're their girlfriend to me lol. I'm sure there are a few who are actually trying to catch up gear-wise or the like, but it's clear from the tone of the adverts that that's not the main audience.

[callipygoustp]

I wish someone would clearly define what winning is in WoW so I can pay for it.

[Baneto]

I wish someone would clearly define what winning is in WoW so I can pay for it.

There are as many definitions as there are people, so dont book yourself up today if you want to hear each ones definition.

[callipygoustp]

There are as many definitions as there are people, so dont book yourself up today if you want to hear each ones definition.

Wow, you thought that was a serious question.

[Baneto]

Wow, you thought that was a serious question.

You forgot the /s.

[callipygoustp]

You forgot the /s.

Some things should be more than obvious. Does it really need to be explicitly stated that there is no general consensus on what "winning" is in WoW? Your own comment said so.

[Baneto]

Some things should be more than obvious. Does it really need to be explicitly stated that there is no general consensus on what "winning" is in WoW? Your own comment said so.

I believe sarcasm on the internet needs to be pointed out, since you cant hear someones voice-tone in a text-message.

According to some in this thread, it looks like it needs to be explicitly stated yeah, unfortunately.

[Kaver]

That is still not pay to win. There is no advantage gained by someone who buys a WoW token to purchase a mount vs someone who plays the game and earns gold thru other means to purchase a mount.
You don’t need to buy a WoW token to get these things. Unless it’s a necessity then there is no pay to win component in game.

Is it not an advantage to gain something faster or by doing less work?

Note: I’m not saying anything about P2W.

[Eapoe]

Is it not an advantage to gain something faster or by doing less work?

Note: I’m not saying anything about P2W.

Do you gain access to something by paying with real money for it that I don’t have access to for not paying real money?
Does paying money for you give you some kind of incredibly powerful piece of gear that I have no chance of ever getting from simply playing the game?

To look at it another way: do you need to buy tokens with real money to afford things in game, or can you make sale groups and earn in game currency and buy the same items?
While saving time is an advantage in the form of having time to do other things, it’s not an example of pay to win. I’m not required to pay money for anything in game, other than the box price of a new expansion and my monthly sub fee which is pay to play (before someone reads this and makes a horrible attempt at saying a sub fee equates to pay to win).

[Kaver]

Do you gain access to something by paying with real money for it that I don’t have access to for not paying real money?
Does paying money for you give you some kind of incredibly powerful piece of gear that I have no chance of ever getting from simply playing the game?

To look at it another way: do you need to buy tokens with real money to afford things in game, or can you make sale groups and earn in game currency and buy the same items?
While saving time is an advantage in the form of having time to do other things, it’s not an example of pay to win. I’m not required to pay money for anything in game, other than the box price of a new expansion and my monthly sub fee which is pay to play (before someone reads this and makes a horrible attempt at saying a sub fee equates to pay to win).

But I didn’t say any of the above. I just asked if it’s not an advantage since you said it wasn’t. I never said it was P2W. I even specifically put in a note.

But ok so we agree that in the end it’s still an advantage in some form. And it was wrong of you to say it’s not an advantage as a general statement.

Note: I’m not saying anything about P2W.

[Orange Joe]

So people have convinced themselves that the game is not pay to win because even though you can buy power and buying power plays a significant role in competitive play, you can still earn it. I don't know if it's denial or what it is, people not wanting the reputation of their game to be tarnished but face up to the reality? Buying power is a significant part of the game meta, those who do it are at an advantage and Blizzard facilitate and profit from it, in 8.3 more than ever.


Like I said, I can't buy any success/advantage/progression in Street Fighter, nor iRacing, my money counts for nothing in Starcraft, nor in D3 for that matter. And yes plenty of games have scummy ways to get ahead but that doesn't give WoW a free pass, other games being worse or having similar mechanics doesn't make WoW "not" a P2W game. Being able to technically earn everything in game doesn't make WoW "not" a P2W game.

Can you buy BIS level power in WoW? Yes
Does Blizzard allow or facilitate these real money transactions? Yes
Does it happen to impact competitive play? Yes


That doesn't make WoW a bad game and you shouldn't be upset, but try not to be so heavily in denial.

This is by your logic...

You can buy controllers for these games the will increase your performance over someone that doesn't' have them. You can have a better pc to reduce latency and such.

There is ALWAYS a way you can spend your money to improve something. So everything is pay to win.

[kaminaris]

This is by your logic...

You can buy controllers for these games the will increase your performance over someone that doesn't' have them. You can have a better pc to reduce latency and such.

There is ALWAYS a way you can spend your money to improve something. So everything is pay to win.

Not only that, he can pay someone to win games/get equipment/get rating for him in Street Fighter, iRacing, Starcraft and D3.
So his money counts for everything and he can buy success this way.

[Azerox]

Everything is made towards you buying tokens as a casual (majority).
It is on the edge on pay2win.