AOE hard-cap implemented to reduce server lag.

[vashe9]

And this is why MMO-Champion is usually a bad spot to go to for proper discourse, people blindly assuming that someone is shilling for Blizzard just because they hold a different opinion than you.

If you'd taken a basic course on algorithms you'd know that this (in terms of server stability issues) is the proper solution. Saying Blizzard should just pump up hardware is like saying that cities with congestion issues should just build more roads or cities with a lot of violence should just build more hospitals. You don't remedy the symptoms you remedy the illness.

If 20 people are stacked and 1 person uses an uncapped AOE ability, that information will have to be forwarded to 19 other players who will then have to process that information and send it to the remaining 19 players. That is 19^2 = 361 actions that the servers will have to process. If 20 people are stacked and a person uses a 5 player capped AOE ability that information will have to be sent to the 5 players affected by it, and the results will then have to be sent from every one of these 5 players to the remaining 19 players (5*19) = 95. A solution being simple doesn't make it bad, usually it's quite the opposite.

If you're arguing for removing random procs through borrowed power, I'm all for that, but I doubt that in itself will be sufficient.

Good solution Blizzard, more of this, less of whatever else you're doing.

Actually there are some people like this in my guild too. "You are always complaining dont play if you think it sucks"... just because they don't understand the impacts... all fanboyism is annoying

Yes these people do actually like covenants... LOL

[Kaver]

And this is why MMO-Champion is usually a bad spot to go to for proper discourse, people blindly assuming that someone is shilling for Blizzard just because they hold a different opinion than you.

If you'd taken a basic course on algorithms you'd know that this (in terms of server stability issues) is the proper solution. Saying Blizzard should just pump up hardware is like saying that cities with congestion issues should just build more roads or cities with a lot of violence should just build more hospitals. You don't remedy the symptoms you remedy the illness.

If 20 people are stacked and 1 person uses an uncapped AOE ability, that information will have to be forwarded to 19 other players who will then have to process that information and send it to the remaining 19 players. That is 19^2 = 361 actions that the servers will have to process. If 20 people are stacked and a person uses a 5 player capped AOE ability that information will have to be sent to the 5 players affected by it, and the results will then have to be sent from every one of these 5 players to the remaining 19 players (5*19) = 95. A solution being simple doesn't make it bad, usually it's quite the opposite.

If you're arguing for removing random procs through borrowed power, I'm all for that, but I doubt that in itself will be sufficient.

Good solution Blizzard, more of this, less of whatever else you're doing.

Do you think technically the AOE cap would be required to reduce lag if they removed most random procs from the game?

[Paula Deen]

As a Shaman, you know one of the best AOE classes in the game, I gotta say I really don't care and would rather have better UX in raids.

[Asrialol]

I hope SL will be interesting.

I just feel the cap was unnecessary. If they just make the mobs hard enough then people will automatically pull less mobs per pack.

I was never a huge fan of reaping because I think that was a good example of “brain dead” AOE. I get why people think it was fun though because most players just like big numbers.

If anything, the cap will make specs we don't usually see in m+ be more common, which I personally think will make things more interesting. Making trash packs 'harder' could be more punishing for these specs, since the meta specs will usually pull ahead (utility ones like outlaw, DHs, hunters and the usual ones). Could also punish both tanks and healers, depending on if harder means more damage/health, or more mechanics, etc.

One thing to also note is that there are a lot more mechanics in SL m+ that are punishing towards melee. So it seems as if they're really trying to make casters more common in high m+.

Reaping is viewed as a "fun" affix, only because people like mindless AoE indeed. Can you imagine if S4 had reaping, with people running TD builds? Sheesh.. Though, fuck reaping in the beginning of Shrine, so, so much.

[Ohsorry]

Was server lag a problem? Literally never had an issue at any level of raiding or mythic +

I was literally about to post the same things.

Not once throughout BFA did I ever experience server lag as a result of AoE while in a M+ or while raiding, and I play from Aus with 150ms.

I don’t buy that explanation at all.

[razorpax]

Yet they place in spell variance

[Blackrunner01]

Do you think technically the AOE cap would be required to reduce lag if they removed most random procs from the game?

We're seeing Issues on Classic too (albeit with much larger clusters of players), and that's with a larger GCD and fewer AOE abilities.

It's really difficult to say since the server lag (to my knowledge) only really started getting bad during Legion, and went absolutely haywire doing BFA. You could say that that is due to the crazy amount of random procs, and I'd be inclined to agree with you, but we'd have to look back at periods in WoW's History where large quantities of people got filtered into the same zone for a prolonged period of time.

I'm thinking Tanaan, Timeless Isle, Throne of Thunder, maybe Hyjal to an extend? I personally couldn't tell you if those areas had a lot of lag at the time, but I'd wager they did.

What I can tell you is that it absolutely for sure would reduce lag, but not to the same extend.


EDIT: Also the the people saying that they don't get issues in M+ due to big AOE pulls. Of course you don't. You'd have to pull an obscene amount of mobs for server lag to be caused by anything you do in M+. If Blizzard's is being dodgy and their ONLY reason for implementing the AOE cap is to reduce server lag, then it's done strictly because of PVP.

"Well why not just solely cap the abilities in PVP then" - Because it's bad game design to have abilities function differently based on what content you're doing. Tranquility doing half healing in raids is bad game design, Wandering Plague not spreading to more than X targets in PVP during WoD was bad game design. In any case you can wager that they will probably do that during next expansion, since Blizzard flip flops on every design decision every 1 or 2 expansions. (Bring the Player not the Class / Do the Content you wanna do / PVP Gear)

[erifwodahs]

This is so obvious

No it's not. Take your outrage and thing about what you have done mister. I am not saying it can't be ONE of the reasons, but saying it's obvious because you have this theory of yours is... not too bright.

[huth]

This is so obvious. Of course Blizzard are trying to claim it’s because of gameplay reasons. But that is BS.

Ion said himself in an interview that the server lag is mainly caused by all the random procs in the game especially in AOE situations. So what is the easiest and most lazy solution to fix this?.. an AOE HARD-cap.

Removing the procs, naturally. Which is happening today/tomorrow. You're just making up shit to accuse them of lying, though.

[Kaver]

If anything, the cap will make specs we don't usually see in m+ be more common, which I personally think will make things more interesting. Making trash packs 'harder' could be more punishing for these specs, since the meta specs will usually pull ahead (utility ones like outlaw, DHs, hunters and the usual ones). Could also punish both tanks and healers, depending on if harder means more damage/health, or more mechanics, etc.

One thing to also note is that there are a lot more mechanics in SL m+ that are punishing towards melee. So it seems as if they're really trying to make casters more common in high m+.

Reaping is viewed as a "fun" affix, only because people like mindless AoE indeed. Can you imagine if S4 had reaping, with people running TD builds? Sheesh.. Though, fuck reaping in the beginning of Shrine, so, so much.

But I mean, they have to make trash packs harder to compensate for the cap right? So I assume they are already doing it?

- - - Updated - - -

Removing the procs, naturally. Which is happening today/tomorrow. You're just making up shit to accuse them of lying, though.

What? I’m not sure what you’re saying..

[kaminaris]

We had this discussion back then, the major problem for open world lags were procs that required heavy math calculations such as Twilight Devastation.
AoE hardcap isn't about reducing server lag, i doubt it will make any noticeable difference.

It's all about gameplay speed multiplied by amount of people multiplied by amount of math heavy spells (procs are spells too).
So in other words: area-wide actions per second.

[Kaver]

No it's not. Take your outrage and thing about what you have done mister. I am not saying it can't be ONE of the reasons, but saying it's obvious because you have this theory of yours is... not too bright.

My opinion is a fact!

[Kumorii]

Read your first post.

Right, I did use the term "just" which is my bad. However, I think I've been clear with my posts of what I meant; yet you keep harping on about it after me clarifying that aspects other than AOE is interesting. I've been quite clear that even if I used the term just to imply that only aoe were the only aspect that exists, that's not the case in the subsequent posts.

[Kaver]

We had this discussion back then, the major problem for open world lags were procs that required heavy math calculations such as Twilight Devastation.
AoE hardcap isn't about reducing server lag, i doubt it will make any noticeable difference.

It's all about gameplay speed multiplied by amount of people multiplied by amount of math heavy spells (procs are spells too).
So in other words: area-wide actions per second.

But it seems like procs are the worst sinner since it grows exponentially with the amount of people. And some procs can even proc other procs.

[Kyphael]

Well if it works then I'm all for it.

Same. I have high speed internet and a decent PC, but when there are like 40 players throwing down AOE in a group quest or whatever, I feel like I'm playing on a Windows 98 with dial up.

[Kaver]

Right, I did use the term "just" which is my bad. However, I think I've been clear with my posts of what I meant; yet you keep harping on about it after me clarifying that aspects other than AOE is interesting. I've been quite clear that even if I used the term just to imply that only aoe were the only aspect that exists, that's not the case in the subsequent posts.

Sorry.

But making a cap on AOE will not automatically make ANY scenario more interesting.

- - - Updated - - -

Same. I have high speed internet and a decent PC, but when there are like 40 players throwing down AOE in a group quest or whatever, I feel like I'm playing on a Windows 98 with dial up.

Just remove random procs. Or a lot of them at least.

[Baneto]

I was literally about to post the same things.

Not once throughout BFA did I ever experience server lag as a result of AoE while in a M+ or while raiding, and I play from Aus with 150ms.

I don’t buy that explanation at all.

Sure you havent expoerienced it in raids? I have a i9 9900K overclocked with Geforce 2080ti and even I get huge lag on the trash before Hivemind.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Just remove random procs.

There's always going to be "Random procs." WE've had RNG procs for awhile now.

[Kaver]

I was literally about to post the same things.

Not once throughout BFA did I ever experience server lag as a result of AoE while in a M+ or while raiding, and I play from Aus with 150ms.

I don’t buy that explanation at all.

Trash before Hivemind matey.

[Kumorii]

Sorry.

But making a cap on AOE will not automatically make ANY scenario more interesting.

Nope, it's not guaranteed indeed.