Shadowlands Class Changes - AoE Capped Abilities

[varren]

BfA had the GCD change, and now SL has the AoE change. Will be reverted next expansion.

[Velshin]

Hmmm with that change...the difference between pure aoe and cleave is almost not existing....

[Raugnaut]

You do realize that you dont have to kill the scorpions to summon Shannox right?

Also it's kind of fun that in the same sentence you say that you don't exaggerate and it makes melee classless useless? You don't see any exaggerating there at all?

So instead of one GCD it will take 5 or 6 if you pull like 30 mobs at once? That's like 10 seconds.....

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Then just gather them all at once like you always do? The only difference is that you need more GCD to kill alot of mobs.

You have to kill a decent number of mobs - I think it was between 50-60 mobs to spawn Shannox?

Bigger issue is that there is NO compensation for the AoE cap. Melee aren't better then Casters atm at 5-8 mobs, instead it's that Casters are the same and then just get better.
And it definetly doesn't belong on tanks.

[Rootsbum]

I hope they leave mages to be the AOE-masters for some flavour

[Coffeh]

Blizzard...the kings of making changes no one asked for or wants.

[Alayea]

They'll revert it next expansion after they've learned (yet again) that it makes for lousy game play.

[Zyky]

There are abilities that hit 8, and there are abilities that are still full AoE, not listed above. So the entire theory works out fine.

It really doesn't because they gave 8 target cap to the classes with the most utility already(and no you can't count ones like Shaman Meteor/Eye of the Storm because that's tied to a 2.5m cooldown). The vast majority of them 5 target which just continues to keep rogue at the top of the M+ pack, more so now with all pots having a 5 minute cooldown.

[Nevcairiel]

It really doesn't because they gave 8 target cap to the classes with the most utility already(and no you can't count ones like Shaman Meteor/Eye of the Storm because that's tied to a 2.5m cooldown). The vast majority of them 5 target which just continues to keep rogue at the top of the M+ pack, more so now with all pots having a 5 minute cooldown.

It doesn't matter if the vast majority is capped, as long a some are uncapped. Then those some have a strength compared to the others and are potentially favorable in such a situation. This is the exact situation you described. Apparently just the class you like isn't part of the group thats favorable here.

[Zyky]

It doesn't matter if the vast majority is capped, as long a some are uncapped. Then those some have a strength compared to the others and are potentially favorable in such a situation. This is the exact situation you described. Apparently just the class you like isn't part of the group thats favorable here.

You can attempt to believe that if you want, but the problem is tanks can only pull so much and keep aggro on so much. It doesn't matter if Blizzard doesn't have a cap if they're just going to be chasing the mage the whole time because Thunderclap does significantly reduced damage past 5 targets.

[Claymore]

I still think AoE caps are just inherently un-fun. Really disappointed Blizz is sticking to their guns on this, because all it does is make the game a little less fun for the entire population.

[Lolsteak]

I'm honestly not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better

[Gestopft]

I'm honestly not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better

If you are a caster DPS trying to do M+, you should see it.

Blizzard...the kings of making changes no one asked for or wants.

See above. Ranged DPS that aren't BM or Fire will be pretty happy with this, I think.

[scelero]

not sure how magic has a DR like a weapon swing does........

glad they pushed back the release to announce this.

[Lolsteak]

If you are a caster DPS trying to do M+, you should see it.

Warlock actually

Still not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better

[Gestopft]

Warlock actually

Still not seeing how this is supposed to make the game better

Literally the worst M+ class, and you don't see it?

Let me spell it out: this is a change targeted at Mythic +, as a way to help improve the viability of casters and vary the dungeon experience. The meta for M+ has been to have two melee because melee has multiple advantages when it comes to the format (obviously varying by spec): shorter interrupts, more and longer stuns/mob lockdown, better short-CD AoE burst, full damage while moving, etc. And on top of that the advantages that ranged tend to have (spread cleave for some specs, less downtime due to travel distance) are diminished due to the smaller encounter spaces in dungeons compared to raid boss rooms. With a small number of exceptions, there really isn't much advantage that ranged have over melee in M+, while the list of advantages melee have is pretty large.

So, the goals here I think are to a) give casters a stronger niche in M+, and also b) allow for more varied strategies in how you pull dungeons.

[Lolsteak]

Literally the worst M+ class, and you don't see it?

Let me spell it out: this is a change targeted at Mythic +, as a way to help improve the viability of casters and vary the dungeon experience. The meta for M+ has been to have two melee because melee has multiple advantages when it comes to the format (obviously varying by spec): shorter interrupts, more and longer stuns/mob lockdown, better short-CD AoE burst, full damage while moving, etc. And on top of that the advantages that ranged tend to have (spread cleave for some specs, less downtime due to travel distance) are diminished due to the smaller encounter spaces in dungeons compared to raid boss rooms. With a small number of exceptions, there really isn't much advantage that ranged have over melee in M+, while the list of advantages melee have is pretty large.

So, the goals here I think are to a) give casters a stronger niche in M+, and also b) allow for more varied strategies in how you pull dungeons.

I've been doing 15-19s weekly and honestly no and it really doesn't matter if it's an issue for the top <0.5% doing +30s

At the intended difficulty (Weekly 15 cap) there's no problems with taking any number of ranged nor is there any kind of issues with interrupts, stuns, burst or dpsing while moving

If this change is supposed to improve m+ for the top <0.5% at the expense of the rest of the 99.5% then it's garbage

[Gestopft]

I've been doing 15-19s weekly and honestly no and it really doesn't matter if it's an issue for the top <0.5% doing +30s

At the intended difficulty (Weekly 15 cap) there's no problems with taking any number of ranged nor is there any kind of issues with interrupts, stuns, burst or dpsing while moving

If this change is supposed to improve m+ for the top <0.5% at the expense of the rest of the 99.5% then it's garbage

Cool.

But as stupid as it is, community perceptions run downhill. You could time your weekly 15 just fine with a DPS team of Affliction, Survival, and Sub. Or Arcane, Balance, and Shadow. Or any combo you want, particularly if you have a group of good players that you usually run with. But the community cares about the meta far, FAR more than is warranted, and that probably isn't going to change any time soon. If target caps can broaden the strategic meta, and/or open up community perceptions of what a viable spec/group looks like, it can lead to better player experiences in the aggregate.

And to be clear, I'm not even sure how I feel about the changes until I've had a while to play with them- I'm just explaining the rationale- and creating specific weaknesses to counterbalance specific strengths, making more strategies viable, or a greater variety of classes viable, or altering community perceptions are all reasonable goals that can make the game better. Whether or not it does is yet to be seen. I'll probably hate it when I'm playing my rogue, but maybe appreciate it when I'm playing Destro. I don't know: but the question "how is this supposed to make the game better" has multiple answers, not that you have to agree with them, and not that the intended consequences will pan out as planned.

[Garybear]

It wasnt necessary, if they could put the cap in place for MDI where it started to become a problem that would be enough.

How does this change affect anyone outside of m+? Maybe skinning skillers?

[Baneto]

How does this change affect anyone outside of m+? Maybe skinning skillers?

It slows down things in all aspects of the game where you do AoE.

Lets say you pull trash before a boss in an old raid, and before you could do one AoE skill to kill them now you have to do several.
Thats just one example.

[strangerdanger]

As a balance druid, I'm fine with these changes.