What do you think of the One God in Warcraft?

[darkoms]

"Oh wow, look at this being destroy worlds with its existence" Not really impressive, considering Archimonde and co have the power to destroy worlds all on their own. Not to mention Sargeras has destroyed countless pieces of existence (Such as planets, galaxies, etc) within the infinity of the universes and timelines (Archimonde also has a similar description in the "Archimonde's Hatred Reborn" trinket. Granted, you could say it's just a trinket, which I'd argue means nothing as legendaries give off actual lore descriptions. Not to mention the Trinket also doesn't mention "Archimonde and his Legion". It's just Archimonde being mentioned here, and it also talks about how he wields "countless magics. So, I mean, that can already be comparable to Murmur. Also, Sargeras doesn't just need to swing his blade to destroy a planet. You're downplaying Sargeras and wanking Murmur heavily here, Loras.

"Archimonde the Defiler, overlord of the legion army and wielder of limitless magics, has destroyed countless worlds across the infinity of the universes." Idk man, I've never seen Murmur destroy worlds in the IFNINITY OF THE UNIVERSES! Only that he can destroy Worlds in a singular Universe.

First, the very concept of countless magic means little. And what kind of limitless magic? There are only 6 cosmological forces, and although there are various subtypes of known magic (like blood magic or chronomancy or voodoo), I don't think Archimonde has 100 different magic powers or anything, and that doesn't exactly put him on the level of a Murmur. Med'an had 3 magic at the same time, but Azshara would crush him like a fly. And I would also like to see a proof that Sargeras destroyed entire galaxies and so on.

As for the INFINITE UNIVERSES. If you read the book about Illidan, you would understand what it means. In his vision of the Legion, Vandel saw Archimonde destroying countless worlds in all universes because when he destroys ordinary worlds in the MAIN UNIVERSE, he destroys the POSSIBILITIES OF THE APPEAL OF THESE WORLDS IN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSES BECAUSE THE LEGION EXCEEDS ALL REALITIES. Do you know how alternative lines work? This was described in Chronicle 3. They appear on their own reflecting different possibilities and different character choices, but if these lines are not connected to the main universe (as in Waters), these lines will disappear on their own. There is one true timeline and it was this line that was assigned to protect Nozdormu. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Aman%27Thul%27s_Wisdom
"Unto you is charged the great task of keeping the purity of time. Know that there is only one true timeline, though there are those who would have it otherwise. You must protect it."

[loras]

"Oh wow, look at this being destroy worlds with its existence" Not really impressive, considering Archimonde and co have the power to destroy worlds all on their own. Not to mention Sargeras has destroyed countless pieces of existence (Such as planets, galaxies, etc) within the infinity of the universes and timelines (Archimonde also has a similar description in the "Archimonde's Hatred Reborn" trinket. Granted, you could say it's just a trinket, which I'd argue means nothing as legendaries give off actual lore descriptions. Not to mention the Trinket also doesn't mention "Archimonde and his Legion". It's just Archimonde being mentioned here, and it also talks about how he wields "countless magics. So, I mean, that can already be comparable to Murmur. Also, Sargeras doesn't just need to swing his blade to destroy a planet. You're downplaying Sargeras and wanking Murmur heavily here, Loras.

"Archimonde the Defiler, overlord of the legion army and wielder of limitless magics, has destroyed countless worlds across the infinity of the universes." Idk man, I've never seen Murmur destroy worlds in the IFNINITY OF THE UNIVERSES! Only that he can destroy Worlds in a singular Universe.

Frankly it's quite a difference to scour a world of life versus to literally tear it apart as Murmur is implied to do, so no, the demon lords offer no competition.
And while i'm not so certain of the power comparison of a titan vs. Murmur i think you're vastly underestimating what power means when comparing a mindless being to something that, by the grace of thought, take action.

Also let us keep in mind that as his presence shatters reality his destruction has no real limit to any particular universe; he is sound, any place where the concept of sound exists is within reach.

"Its existence heralds pure destruction. Worlds shatter and the pieces scatter at its whim."

But i've said enough, i get that it can be mildly upsetting that such an obscure piece of TBC's mad lore eclipses most if not all known big bads in terms of pure destructive capacity, but it is hugely entertaining nonetheless - and a good thing to keep in mind when anticipating their new lore. ^^

[darkoms]

It would make me worried about Azeroth and our lives though. I mean, what if this "God" were to just say "Ya know what? I wanna end everything. I'm bored :/" one day? I wouldn't want it to do that! D:

Provided that this is not a good god-demiurge, who cares about the lives of mortals and the universe (like Eru Iluvatar). An evil almighty god would not be better because then everything is meaningless and we cannot oppose anything to him. I like lore Diablo. The two original gods of good and evil died in battle and after them only angels and demons remained, and a perfect balance reigned in the universe.

[TheFirstOnes]

Provided that this is not a good god-demiurge, who cares about the lives of mortals and the universe (like Eru Iluvatar). An evil almighty god would not be better because then everything is meaningless and we cannot oppose anything to him. I like lore Diablo. The two original gods of good and evil died in battle and after them only angels and demons remained, and a perfect balance reigned in the universe.

I getcha. Makes me wonder how WoW will even handle all these "top gods" in the end. :/

[dunkl]

all this outer space, inter-dimensional, time travel, foundations of creation, elements of the cosmos, reality / unreality, stuff is making everything meaningless.

it harder to care about our characters and the worlds and stories in warcraft when there's all his giant, nebulous stuff. and no stakes or consequences since there's even no such thing as dying. and souls being destroyed don't count - and actually that would be true death - making shadowlands not really part of dying and more of just another dimension.

sigh, and infinite possibilities don't help. starting to sound like comic book movies. I'm not going to care just because they want me to. there are ways - craft - to make audiences care and these 'grand schemes, philosophies, rules' that emerge/reveal, risk making our characters, races, smaller stories, and worlds meaningless and forgettable.

if they think all this hierarchy and constant reveal of more powerful beings stuff will make wow seem purposeful and memorable they're wrong. it's the quainter things with hints of grandness out there that make our here and now meaningful, memorable and engaging.

[TheFirstOnes]

Frankly it's quite a difference to scour a world of life versus to literally tear it apart as Murmur is implied to do, so no, the demon lords offer no competition.
And while i'm not so certain of the power comparison of a titan vs. Murmur i think you're vastly underestimating what power means when comparing a mindless being to something that, by the grace of thought, take action.

Also let us keep in mind that as his presence shatters reality his destruction has no real limit to any particular universe; he is sound, any place where the concept of sound exists is within reach.

"Its existence heralds pure destruction. Worlds shatter and the pieces scatter at its whim."

But i've said enough, i get that it can be mildly upsetting that such an obscure piece of TBC's mad lore eclipses most if not all known big bads in terms of pure destructive capacity, but it is hugely entertaining nonetheless - and a good thing to keep in mind when anticipating their new lore. ^^

I mean...

Being a concept doesn't mean much in WoW, ngl.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Dark Portal was created for Orcs to go from Draenor to Azeroth and place a Beacon, so Sargeras could find it from space, since entering through Well of Eternity (which was much much more powerful than Dark Portal) was foiled.

Sargeras would never be able to go through Dark Portal, and this speculation puts Murmur at a higher power level than Sargeras. Murmur wouldn't be able to go through either.

That's a good point actually.

[TheFirstOnes]

all this outer space, inter-dimensional, time travel, foundations of creation, elements of the cosmos, reality / unreality, stuff is making everything meaningless.

it harder to care about our characters and the worlds and stories in warcraft when there's all his giant, nebulous stuff. and no stakes or consequences since there's even no such thing as dying. and souls being destroyed don't count - and actually tar would be true death - making shadowlands not really part of dying and more of just another dimension.

sigh, and infinite possibilities don't help. starting to sound like comic book movies. I'm not going to care just because they want me to. there are ways - craft - to make audiences care and these 'grand schemes, philosophies, rules' that emerge/reveal, risk making our characters, races, smaller stories, and worlds meaningless and forgettable.

if they think all this hierarchy and constant reveal of more powerful beings stuff will make wow seem purposeful and memorable they're wrong. it's the quainter things with hints of grandness out there that make our here and now meaningful, memorable and engaging.

I kinda liked it a ton when we couldn't even fathom beings like the Titans, etc. Would've loved it more if they kept Sargeras and co in the dark, and that they kept most of Warcraft's cosmology a mystery. But now, that ain't the case. :/

[Xilurm]

I don't know what to think of this.

I'm hoping these groups of beings arent too many. Like, I hope the first ones are like 3-4 or something. Not 15. Make them more unique. I don't really like the idea of Elune being a part of them either.

[Dazmalak]

But the Legion was stronger than us. It took us literally all of Azeroth's powers, even elementals and titan-forged, to repel the attacks.
Yes, I agree that the presence of players and the genre of the game implies that we cannot lose, but usually we win with someone else's help. The presence of a single god who at any moment can stop any villain if he can really win, makes you less worried about the universe.

I got the impression the Legion was incompetent as I waded through thousands of demon corpses on all my characters and watched their leadership crumble over and over again without the full might of the Alliance or Horde even brought against them. Yes, we get help from NPCs...the same NPCs from Azeroth waving their human potential around with no shame.

I am mostly just joking around here. I think WoW's lore is truly beyond levels of awful at this point so I suppose I am indifferent to every new dumb revelation, whether it's true or not.

[TheFirstOnes]

You can wield countless magics and still have 6 Cosmological Forces. Countless Magics probably just means limitless magical might or some shit. Like how Goku or Vegeta can be stated to have "countless growths to their power", which probably just means they're capable of pushing their power to an unquantifiable amount.

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As for the timeline shit, I don't really care about "true timelines" or shit like that. It's still stated that the Legion went around destroying every timeline, even if it's a mere "possibility", which actually increases the Legion's feats (As well as Archimondes) more, as they're destroying ideas, which is above anything physically there.

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I got the impression the Legion was incompetent as I waded through thousands of demon corpses on all my characters and watched their leadership crumble over and over again without the full might of the Alliance or Horde even brought against them. Yes, we get help from NPCs...the same NPCs from Azeroth waving their human potential around with no shame.

I am mostly just joking around here. I think WoW's lore is truly beyond levels of awful at this point so I suppose I am indifferent to every new dumb revelation, whether it's true or not.

Tbf here, Sargeras and the Eredar were the things keeping the Legion together. They kinda were always "incompetent" outside of that.

[dunkl]

I kinda liked it a ton when we couldn't even fathom beings like the Titans, etc. Would've loved it more if they kept Sargeras and co in the dark, and that they kept most of Warcraft's cosmology a mystery. But now, that ain't the case. :/

me too. some things should stay mysterious. nothing wrong with getting more hints along the way, but this is starting to sound like a new version of wow, which might not be horrible but telling us to / assuming we'll care is audacious. i for one hate the end scenes in comic book movies that decide for the audience, before the viewer has even had a chance to critique or praise or develop an opinion of the flick, that they are going to watch more of 'this'.

they already make the next ones whether the audience approves of the current one or not. a company or studio or ip can do whatever they want and audience can go away, that's an argument, but all this cosmic, warring, everything revealed and huge stuff is not my wow and it can, of course, alienate.

If they're going to constantly announce/reveal bigger and bigger (yawn) guys beyond our limited knowledge of the titans, elune, etc, then they should do so slowly over many expansions, not like this opening of a family album of 'meet the planetsons'.

[Koryn123]

Imo, nothing stronger than the Well of Eternity belongs in WoW lore. Quit turning Warcraft into Starcraft. Enough with the spaceships. Imagine Blizzard trying to make a gang in Westfall appear threatening after they've brought spaceships into WoW and had us destroy them utterly with no trouble whatsoever. And yet which one do people care about more? Lower the stakes and bring WoW back to Azeroth and let us use swords and arrows against each other. It's the player races and their connected lore and continued history that interests me. Iterate on what there was before, like Warcraft 2, 3, and Vanilla-WotLK did. Surely things are happening all over the world that we don't get to see because we're too busy helping turtles make it to the water and allying with Oppressed Underdog #32 to topple Oppressive Empire #81 so we can get the 12 survivors of that underdog group to join us, rather than asking the oppressive empire for help and overlooking their oppression of that underdog group.

Imagine the Horde going to Vol'dun, seeing a huge empire of snake people, and a few wagons and llamas, and being like, "We need those fox people on our side. Spend as many Horde lives as it takes to destroy that ancient empire of snake people! Forget the cost and do whatever you have to! We need the Vulpera!"

If the story is gonna be about gods and spaceships and planet-sized monsters, swords and arrows and fireballs aren't gonna cut it. Stop making the enemies bigger and bigger. Make smaller more meaningful threats. Garrosh wasn't gonna blow up the planet, but he was a much more impactful and meaningful villain than Sargeras was. If you have to rely on cheap theatrics and spectacles like a huge anime sword stabbing the planet and blowing up N'Zoth with a kamehameha, maybe you need to work on your storytelling.

[TheFirstOnes]

"Stop with the Spaceships and space shit! WoW isn't Starcraft" Even tho Space ships and gods were a thing since WC3 and TBC. Hell, WC1 had the Humans serve "god", while the Orcs were originally spawned from Hell itself. Shit was gonna be weird since day 1. Also, pretty sure Sargeras was planet sized even before WoW's launch.

"swords and arrows and fireballs aren't gonna cut it." Yeah they can. Just make them godly empowered or some shit. It's worked before...LOTS OF TIMES!

"Garrosh wasn't gonna blow up the planet, but he was a much more impactful and meaningful villain than Sargeras was." NO HE WASN'T! WHAT?!

"Iterate on what there was before, like Warcraft 2, 3, and Vanilla-WotLK did" They did. That's why we have almost none of the old threats left. That's why we need new threats. Do you hate it? Yeah, you can. But we can kinda only go bigger from here.

The real issue is that WoW shouldn't be continuing from here. Anything regarding facing Cosmic threats could be limited at best. Gods and spaceships can exist. I just don't want to fight these Gods or anything like that. We SHOULDN'T fight them. But we are...

[darkoms]

Dark Portal was created for Orcs to go from Draenor to Azeroth and place a Beacon, so Sargeras could find it from space, since entering through Well of Eternity (which was much much more powerful than Dark Portal) was foiled.

Sargeras would never be able to go through Dark Portal, and this speculation puts Murmur at a higher power level than Sargeras. Murmur wouldn't be able to go through either.

What? Where did you get this information? The Horde had to do the same as the Scourge did. Break down the defenders' defenses and summon the Legion.

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You can wield countless magics and still have 6 Cosmological Forces. Countless Magics probably just means limitless magical might or some shit. Like how Goku or Vegeta can be stated to have "countless growths to their power", which probably just means they're capable of pushing their power to an unquantifiable amount.

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As for the timeline shit, I don't really care about "true timelines" or shit like that. It's still stated that the Legion went around destroying every timeline, even if it's a mere "possibility", which actually increases the Legion's feats (As well as Archimondes) more, as they're destroying ideas, which is above anything physically there.

But the magical power of Archimonde is not unlimited, he could not even remove the weakened spell of the green dragons... So we still come to the conclusion that these are just beautiful words.

Then stop talking about what you don't know. This does not in any way double their deeds, it is just their nature as demons and the nature of the Twisting Nether.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

With Elune being established as a god that is also revered on other planets, I think the seeds have been sewn to reveal her as the one true god.

[ohwell]

Hm...
Try this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMQj...ature=emb_logo

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For the most part, yes, because that's when I first found out about it. But it seemed to me silly nonsense and I forgot about it, but recently I came across this interview of Ion and now I think that it may be true.

Normally I would be like whatever, but who the hell would use the term clockmaker as a throwaway term unless he slipped and used whatever they're calling him. If I had actually watched that interview when it came out I would have been like wtf is a clockmaker

[loras]

With Elune being established as a god that is also revered on other planets, I think the seeds have been sewn to reveal her as the one true god.

That could work, actually, or perhaps as one of two gods, to allow for the existence of evil.
(i prefer that to the bipolar gods that exist in i.e. christianity)

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That's a good point actually.

That, and his presence shatters reality, which includes portals and their magic i would think.
Also the physical portal itself.

But yeah, what FuxieDK said is definitely true too, assuming the portal could survive.

[Powerogue]

claims he has received a leak about Blizzard's plan

Hah, never heard that one before.

[Kathranis]

I'm pretty sure that when Ion said "clockmaker" he just meant whoever it was that created the "machinery of death." The architect, the clockmaker, etc.