It might be time to split the country.

[Hinastorm]

I'm not the biggest fan of either party so maybe my perspective to jaded. The Republican Party has a nasty issue with the alt-right right latching on to them in recent history and their upper leadership is dangerous to the country but those two factors do not identify your typical Republican - the same people who have the voted Blue the last four years to try to correct ship. The bases of both parties are made up of moderates who only differ just enough to side with people who have more defined ideologies. Why is that? Because the two are so a like they need fringe elements to carve out real distinctions between the two. Calling all Republicans Trump zealots is like calling all Democrats democratic socialist (I mean I wish, it would make thinks a lot easier).

I don't see McConnell, Trump, or the alt-right as permanent features or ones whose successors will be around in the next 15-20 years. Those relics are on their way out.

Saying the two parties are irreconcilable is to democracy has failed in the country, we can no longer rely on the vote to get bad people out and better people in. That hasn't happened yet, if anything the US has moved to becoming a better democracy (even if at a snails pace) - one has only too look at was paced off as democracy just 40, 50 years ago.

If I'm to take subforurm seriously, broth parties seem to have an equal disdain for Leftists.

"Saying the two parties are irreconcilable is to democracy has failed in the country, we can no longer rely on the vote to get bad people out and better people in. That hasn't happened yet"

Buckle up for the next couple months bud. Although i'd argue that the installation of trump as president in 2017 fits the "not being able to get better people in" to a T. It even applys if Biden wins. No one likes Biden, he's just not Trump.

[PC2]

We don't need to split the country, we need electoral reform that introduces ranked choice voting, proportional representation and eliminates the Electoral College and gerrymandering.

It's a myth that the voting system itself is the cause of problems in the US. If a party or policy fails it's because the party or policy isn't good enough and not because the voting system is keeping it down.

Ranked choice voting in particular is bad because it mainly helps radicals who want to vote for an extremist 3rd party without having to suffer a reasonable opportunity cost.

[PACOX]

"Saying the two parties are irreconcilable is to democracy has failed in the country, we can no longer rely on the vote to get bad people out and better people in. That hasn't happened yet"

Buckle up for the next couple months bud.

I'll be first one to say it's going to get messy. Nothing that's not fixable though.

[Zan15]

I think it's time to split the country due to irreconcilable differences. The red states and blue states are so fundamentally different, there's no way to compromise. When a country can't even agree to wear masks during a pandemic, or that a cop shooting unarmed people is bad, it's time to accept that the United States is a failed experiment. Why should two parts of the country force themselves to stay with someone they so obviously can't stand?

lol how soon would we have to loan the red states trillions not to go bankrupt.

[Thereturn]

Nah that would be boring because it would create 2 seperate circle-jerk countries where everyone agrees with each other. Each side criticizes the other when they hold office and both sides are better as a result.

Would be hilarious to see a breitbart and mmo-champion eskque division and the effects on a country though.

[callipygoustp]

Makes sense, as long as its done the same way the GoP does congressional districts.

[Egomaniac]

It's a myth that the voting system itself is the cause of problems in the US. If a party or policy fails it's because the party or policy isn't good enough and not because the voting system is keeping it down.

Ranked choice voting in particular is bad because it mainly helps radicals who want to vote for an extremist 3rd party without having to suffer a reasonable opportunity cost.

If ranked choice voting hurts a party... well, I guess that just means that that the party isn't good enough and not because the voting system is keeping it down.

[PC2]

If ranked choice voting hurts a party... well, I guess that just means that that the party isn't good enough and not because the voting system is keeping it down.

Sure but based on who wants a ranked choice option it would mainly hurt the Democrat party and ironically you'd need the Democrat party to pass the policy in the first place. So it seems you're between a rock and a hard place.

[Egomaniac]

Sure but based on who wants a ranked choice option it would mainly hurt the Democrat party and ironically you'd need the Democrat party to pass the policy in the first place. So it seems you're between a rock and a hard place.

I don't see it hurting the democratic party at all. Also, the point of democracy isn't to protect political parties.

[jonnysensible]

*me and my brother sharing a room when we were 6 and 7 years old.*
'this is your side of the room and this is my side of the room'

grow up lads

[Zantos]

The red states and blue states are so fundamentally different, there's no way to compromise.

This is the problem. This mindset. This is the issue we have with our voting as well. There is no red or blue states. The way the district lines are drawn makes it so more districts might have more of one color than the other, so the entire state is labeled as that same color. In reality, most states Should look purple, if we are strictly speaking about the 2 party system.

No conceivable way to separate the country when, as I said, most states are not actually 1 color. Its just how our politicians want you to think they are.

[Laerrus]

It's just noise. After November 3rd, the losing side will bitch for a little while and once they are over it, it will be back to business as usual.

I think everyone has had enough of the bullshit over the past 4 years, you might see some people at least make an attempt to be kind to each other once this is all over with.

[Mihalik]

It's a myth that the voting system itself is the cause of problems in the US. If a party or policy fails it's because the party or policy isn't good enough and not because the voting system is keeping it down.
.

That is factually false.

Simply introducing proportional representation would mean the GOP would never win another election.

Eliminate gerrymandering and the both houses of Congress would be 70 to 30 Democrat.

The GOP as a party is wildly unpopular nationally and Democrat or Democrat leaning voters outnumber them nearly 2 to 1. The idea that Democrats lose elections because they have an unconvincing policy platform is utter horseshit.

It's the GOP that would need to significantly reform itself to widen its appeal.

A two party system is not in fact necessary for a functional democracy if you have proportional representation and eliminate first pass the post voting.

The two party system has repeatedly proven itself particularly shit at actually dealing with crises or representing the actual populace.

It only and exclusively benefits a small minority (about 35%, realistically less) of the country who get to rig elections and lord over the country using this system. This is also true for other 2 party systems too, like the UK.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not the biggest fan of either party so maybe my perspective to jaded. The Republican Party has a nasty issue with the alt-right right latching on to them in recent history and their upper leadership is dangerous to the country but those two factors do not identify your typical Republican - the same people who have the voted Blue the last four years to try to correct ship. The bases of both parties are made up of moderates who only differ just enough to side with people who have more defined ideologies. Why is that? Because the two are so a like they need fringe elements to carve out real distinctions between the two. Calling all Republicans Trump zealots is like calling all Democrats democratic socialist (I mean I wish, it would make thinks a lot easier).

I don't see McConnell, Trump, or the alt-right as permanent features or ones whose successors will be around in the next 15-20 years. Those relics are on their way out.

Saying the two parties are irreconcilable is to democracy has failed in the country, we can no longer rely on the vote to get bad people out and better people in. That hasn't happened yet, if anything the US has moved to becoming a better democracy (even if at a snails pace) - one has only too look at was paced off as democracy just 40, 50 years ago.

If I'm to take subforurm seriously, broth parties seem to have an equal disdain for Leftists.

The alt right is not a recent addition the GOP, it's just a cumulation of decades of dog whistling finally going blow horns and torches.

This started long before with the Southern Strategy and Civil Rights Movement, with the appeal to segregationists, the appeal to evangelicals, the appeals to various radical right wing groups. It's a coalition of lunatics who were drawn into the GOP tent as an electoral strategy and whose ideologies were then further popularized and radicalized by the GOP itself via things like Fox News, Evangelical lobby groups.

Yes it has gotten worse in the past 30 years, but only in the sense the moderates were eventually pushed out of the party and the messaging has became more overt dropping the pretenses.

The notion that the Republican base is moderate is factually false. The Republican base are the lunatics who throw themselves into frenzies at Trump rallies. It is the gun toting, deeply racist and deeply bigoted loons. That's the Republican base and they make up something like 90% of those who today identify as Republicans.

It has already been extensively discussed how the "disaffected working class Democrat" who switched to vote for Donald Trump in 2016 is mostly a myth. It was a statistical rounding error in a handful a swing states. The problem with Hilary was that she was so deeply unpopular that she simply couldn't mobilize even the Democratic base to go out and vote for her, which meant losing the elections in the utterly rigged and manipulated electoral system we have.

The working class disaffected republican moderate voter doesn't exist. It never existed. It's a made up myth. And the few who do exist are the kind of people who voted for the NSDAP back in 1930s Germany saying to himself - I don't hate the Jews, I just think we need someone to deal with Zionists ruining the economy.

I'll say it again for emphasis, moderate republicans do not exists, it is simply not a thing.

[Machismo]

It's a myth that the voting system itself is the cause of problems in the US. If a party or policy fails it's because the party or policy isn't good enough and not because the voting system is keeping it down.

Ranked choice voting in particular is bad because it mainly helps radicals who want to vote for an extremist 3rd party without having to suffer a reasonable opportunity cost.

Gerrymandering and the Electoral College have ruled that you are lying.

[LilSaihah]

It's a fun idea but it doesn't actually fix anything. Ask India and Pakistan. They've been at eachother's throats since the divorce.

[DingDongKing]

Just move the GOP to Siberia. They’re all pals with the Russians anyway. Plenty of room there.

[Themius]

Got plenty of Republicans voting Biden.

So they can go back to civility and fucking up the country and taking away rights.

They don’t give a fuck about policies they only care that trump lacks decorum. Lincoln projects issues aren’t about policies it’s about character.

[PC2]

Simply introducing proportional representation would mean the GOP would never win another election.

No because that assumes that the Democrats would be able to successfully manage the economy forever and that voters would never turn against them in the future. In reality it's very difficult to maintain control for more than 8 years unless the economy is doing extremely well.

[shimerra]

No because that assumes that the Democrats would be able to successfully manage the economy forever and that voters would never turn against them in the future. In reality it's very difficult to maintain control for more than 8 years unless the economy is doing extremely well.

No it doesn't. It correctly states that the GOP without the tricks that have kept it alive for at least the last 80 years, EC/gerrymandering/suppressing voters ,would implode and democrats would have no challenger until a replacement splintering off from the Democratic party came about.

You're incorrectly assuming that no party would ever come up to replace a party that essentially only maintains power by exploiting rules that give the minority power over the majority once those rules are abolished.

[Kathandira]

I think it's time to split the country due to irreconcilable differences. The red states and blue states are so fundamentally different, there's no way to compromise. When a country can't even agree to wear masks during a pandemic, or that a cop shooting unarmed people is bad, it's time to accept that the United States is a failed experiment. Why should two parts of the country force themselves to stay with someone they so obviously can't stand?

I've mused over this as well. But think about how that would play out. It would be all out war between the two factions. We've done this before, it didn't work out as well as hoped.