Would you like to see this implemented in TBC?

[Mosha]

The problem with no dual spec is that some roles had a very hard time doing things well both in raids and the open world. Whereas fury prot tanking is a thing in classic it's not in TBC (or at least wasn't in actual TBC); warrior tanks were deep prot and that was kind of a crap spec for farming etc. Same for healers - their healy spec was a bit crap in the open world.

Yeah, same goes for pvp as well. In vanilla you can go into a bg as a pve specced mage or warlock for example and still do decent because it isn't THAT competitive. But there is absolutely no way you are taking your pve mage spec or honestly pve any spec into arenas with a FEW FEW exceptions.

Honestly I wouldn't mind dual spec in tbc. I'm going resto druid to relive that experience again and although I wouldn't be TERRIBLE in pve with my pvp spec it's for sure a pain in the ass to participate in both

[Aleksej89]

The problem with no dual spec is that some roles had a very hard time doing things well both in raids and the open world. Whereas fury prot tanking is a thing in classic it's not in TBC (or at least wasn't in actual TBC); warrior tanks were deep prot and that was kind of a crap spec for farming etc. Same for healers - their healy spec was a bit crap in the open world.

Yes that is intentional.
In current retail WoW you can change specs/talents so easily that for whatever encounter you can change/adapt to be the most optimal.

If you take a look at some older RPG games you will see that most classes and/or specs have intentional weaknesses against some type of enemy or content.
For example in D&D Rangers & Druids have cool bonuses when in forest/nature but are somewhat penalized when in a city due to the lack of nature.

Imho if you choose your Druid to be Restoration then that should be your specialization.
Changing specializations in an RPG should be a big decision, something you do not do often.

If you could change spec/talents at a whim then your Druid has no specialization restrictions, aside from the "cant do it in combat" limitation.
Having to stick to your character even when it is not optimal for the current situation is a huge part of RPGs.

I am in favor of there being a respec (unlike the old Diablo 2 before recent patches) but the whole change talents at a whim approach cheapened the class RPG aspect of WoW a lot.

[ONCHEhap]

Hard no on 2)

I wouldn't mind 1),and 3) depends on how much it would actually affect the TBC version of classes

[clevin]

Yes that is intentional.

well it was a big enough issue that they introduced dual spec the next expansion, so while it was the way TBC was done, that doesn't mean it was a great thing.

In current retail WoW you can change specs/talents so easily that for whatever encounter you can change/adapt to be the most optimal.

1) no one is saying mimic retail
2) you can minimize this by having a cool down on respecs if you think it's a real issue. "Dual spec can be used 1x a week" or something.

If you take a look at some older RPG games you will see that most classes and/or specs have intentional weaknesses against some type of enemy or content.
For example in D&D Rangers & Druids have cool bonuses when in forest/nature but are somewhat penalized when in a city due to the lack of nature.

But this is WoW, not some other RPG

Imho if you choose your Druid to be Restoration then that should be your specialization.
Changing specializations in an RPG should be a big decision, something you do not do often.

So I get this argument and it's perfectly valid. But it IS an opinion. Again, they thought this was a big enough issue that they introduced dual spec in Wrath.

it doesn't actually need to be dual spec either. The issue wasn't that you couldn't respec, but that it swiftly got very expensive but only some classes who needed to do it often. As a rogue, I was fine using my raid spec for open world farming, etc. But our raid tanks were pretty severely compromised (deep prot killing things WAY slower) so if they needed to farm mats etc, they either respecced or spend significantly more hours.

[Inoculate]

As someone who was hyped for classic, I have zero interest in a TBC server. If people think Classic was an unbalanced mess wait until the community optimizes TBC.

Happy for those that are excited but I learned my lesson to keep nostalgia in the past. Even if it's the same game, we aren't the same players and you can't ever get that back.

[Mosha]

If you want changes, that's called retail. If you want TBC the way it was, then re-releasing it is fine.

This statement doesn't really hold up. Whether or not you feel like splitting hairs on what you call changes, classic without a fraction of a doubt had changes in order to fix and help the current playstyles of players.

Like I said, you can split hairs and say "WELL WELL THOSE CHANGES AREN'T...." they for sure had some fairly big changes.

With that said, do I think there should be things like LFR in tbc? God fucking no. Should there be no flying or group finder or transmog? God fucking no.

But I personally don't see any issue with adding something like dual spec or giving alliance ret paladins a horde paladin ability in order to slightly help with some issues that would arise with tbc.

Would I die on the hill of making it a thing in tbc? Nope sure wouldn't I love tbc for what it is. Do I understand and be completely fine with these changes, yes I would.

- - - Updated - - -

As someone who was hyped for classic, I have zero interest in a TBC server. If people think Classic was an unbalanced mess wait until the community optimizes TBC.

Happy for those that are excited but I learned my lesson to keep nostalgia in the past. Even if it's the same game, we aren't the same players and you can't ever get that back.

I've played tbc servers quite frequently over the years and I can safely say the 'optimization' of tbc is NOWHERE and I mean NOWHERE near classic. What I mean by that is the difference between how people played in vanilla to how they play classic is so different it's almost a completely different game. TBC is optimized, yes, but it is still played fairly similar to what it was back then. Yeah the raid compositions can get super technical, but most raid groups don't go THAT far to literally pick out every single spec down to a T. Pvp also morphed in a way because people understand pvp a bit better, but it is in no way shape or form the mess that classic is.

Honestly, if you took the time to play classic, you are doing yourself a disservice by not playing classic tbc when it comes out. I guarantee it is going to be a breath of fresh air for everyone involved.

[Clermont]

Classic could have been much better with a few touch ups, but the #nochanges crowd is who these rereleases are being catered to so I don't see it happening.

are you kidding? they changed SO MUCH for classic.

[Velerios]

are you kidding? they changed SO MUCH for classic.

Only on the User Interface. But beside of this actually what?

[Tojara]

Only on the User Interface. But beside of this actually what?

People will cry about it launching with better itemization, changes to AV and the patch they chose being retroactively applied to older content. Any little thing that was altered or changed will be things they bring up, when realistically, it would be fairly unreasonable for Blizzard to have micro patches applied to the game every few weeks with talent or balance changes to better line up with how the game originally launched with.

Then you have a camp of people who are still convinced to this day that without being in 1.12 or without the itemization changes, most guilds would be stuck on Ragnaros and you 100% would need capped fire resistance to even have a chance. Or that AQ would rip guilds to pieces because of how difficult it was.

All in all, in reality, the spirit of the game was pretty intact if people are brutally honest. Some people just like to QQ about them fixing things they 100% would've fixed had it been far better known 16 years ago (lots of BG things, like getting to unreachable places, or mind controlling people out of the instance).

Classic not being "Classic" or having massive amount of "changes" has less to do with the patch they chose, slightly accelerated launch schedules or odds/ends of QoL changes and more to do with community approaching the game differently. The rose tinted glasses about how amazing PvP would be dissipated pretty quickly when people realized how the community was going to game this dogshit system, and it's amazing to me that people both wanted it, and Blizzard actually gave it to them.

I'd concede the only really massive change to the game was probably Alterac Valley in it's entirely. I don't entirely know if the original design would've been well received or not, but it's absolutely a lot different than how AV was originally played years ago. That's the thing though. AV changed so much in Vanilla and it's doubtful that people would play it how it was "intended" (whatever that means) had they went with one of the earlier designs.

[Velerios]

I'd concede the only really massive change to the game was probably Alterac Valley in it's entirely. I don't entirely know if the original design would've been well received or not, but it's absolutely a lot different than how AV was originally played years ago. That's the thing though. AV changed so much in Vanilla and it's doubtful that people would play it how it was "intended" (whatever that means) had they went with one of the earlier designs.

Yes, it would have been. The original AV before the 1.11 changes was godly, and the biggest issue was that Battlegrounds were not crossrealm. I know that i played alterac in 1.08 one time for 8 hours, went to bed, then went back, joined it, and after i've joined i was in the same instance, and we lost 1 tower. that was all. After 1.11 or was it 1.12, not sure, i went in, left and never went back again. That was the vanilla-experience that even many hardcore-nochangers wanted back. You can't even compare AV in classic with the original AV. And that's something i wanted back for classic too.

[Complainer]

They didn't change a thing in classic, why would they do in BC?

[Funkyjunky]

They didn't change a thing in classic, why would they do in BC?

ehhmm.. I played vanilla retail and i didn't clear raids with 1.12 spells, talents, itemization. Every major patch during vanilla had some sort of nerfs - and with classic you get em all (RIP onyxia). Its a completely different game for me. Lets dont forget about weapon/pet normalization - thats a big thing for number crunchers.

I hope they will do proper itemization in TBC - everyone that is familiar with TBC will tell that 2.4.3 itemization will be a even bigger fail than 1.12.

Classic is comparable to if you start playing BFA now.

I guess people that say classic had no changes are either ignorant or trolls.

[Shibito]

So now human male paladins want seal of blood on alliance so they can rp

[Scynfullone]

Soooo you guys realize that spell batching still exists right? It's jut something like 20ms instead of 200ms.

[Will]

Soooo you guys realize that spell batching still exists right? It's jut something like 20ms instead of 200ms.

And that's a huge difference. Though weirdly I've seen two blue posts on the subject and one claimed it's like <20ms as you say, and the other claimed they don't batch and haven't since WoD, and instead they process spells as they come in.

Who is right or wrong of the two blizzard posts is irrelevant; what we do know for a fact is that the retail model feels immensely better. And that's what people want for TBC, the retail batching feel. The actual mechanics behind it are just details...

- - - Updated - - -

And then you'll have people asking for VANILLA TBC...

So no.

Nobody is suggesting the entire TBC game is overhauled. People are suggesting small tweaks that'll prevent catastrophies such as gross horde imbalance on all server types, and small changes to the fluidity of gameplay.

[Machismo]

I'm all for a dual-spec system being used in TBC. If the push is for PvP and seasons, allowing for an easier time to spec would be great. That's one of the main reasons why they introduced dual-specs in the first place. I don't think very many people hated dual-speccing.

[seamnstr]

Yes, they should do this, perhaps let community vote on it and other similar changes.

[Kaneiac]

They didn't change a thing in classic, why would they do in BC?

Yes they did.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=309664/...valley-changes

Hunters also benefit from attack power from world buffs now

They changed how many kills it takes for players to be worth zero honor

Just things I can think of immediately, there's been more

[Bumkin]

Dual spec yes, the rest no

[Synical123]

Yes they did.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=309664/...valley-changes

Hunters also benefit from attack power from world buffs now

They changed how many kills it takes for players to be worth zero honor

Just things I can think of immediately, there's been more

Black lotus. Balance patches. Right click report. Honor system (not exactly sure what it was but I’m hearing people complain about it), banning people from farming specific spots, I mean there’s a lot. Also, I think the fact of what classic turned into should be more than enough reason to switch up some of tbc lol. World buffs should have been removed a while ago imo