If raiding was..

[Velshin]

Do you think if Blizzard decided to make raiding storyline not the end game storyline but a side story and you can experience the main major storyline by doing campaign quests (kinda similar to FFXIV and ESO)....the storytelling of WoW could be improved? by not making many major characters = raid bosses or 5 man dungeon bosses.


Discuss and thanks for reading everyone.

[ShaanuJaanu]

its called LFR, you can complete any raid for story line in there solo. It is pretty much FFXIV story raids.

[Velshin]

its called LFR, you can complete any raid for story line in there solo. It is pretty much FFXIV story raids.

Did you fucking read what I just wrote? for god sake.... I said raiding storyline = not the main storyline of the game but side story.. I wasn't talking about the god damn difficulty...

In FFXIV the main storyline is through quests and campaign not raiding. Raiding is just side story most of the time in that game.

[ShaanuJaanu]

well.. FFXIV used to have these raids you needed to complete to complete main story quests (the difficulty was very similar to raider finder in WoW), have not played shadowbringers. So no, FFXIV raids werent always side quests. Its just that the game is so dead (WONDER WHY?) that people can't find others to finish their MSQ they probably got rid of them.

[rayvio]

there'd inevitibly be complaints about how the lorewise most powerful villains were being taken down by small groups and yet the petty villains of side stories were needing raids. not that in-game difficulty has ever truly been reflective of storywise power levels, but they have tried to keep it at least somewhat balanced

[Velshin]

there'd inevitibly be complaints about how the lorewise most powerful villains were being taken down by small groups and yet the petty villains of side stories were needing raids. not that in-game difficulty has ever truly been reflective of storywise power levels, but they have tried to keep it at least somewhat balanced

That is exactly because of players got used to WoW pattern of using raid as the main major end game storyline of the game and not a side story.

[Eazy]

Raiding is just fine as it is. Do not change it.

And not every main villain was taken down by the players. For example: we needed Tirion, Maiev, Thrall.

I wouldnt play the game if I was just doing dirty job while other heroes(from the lore) would take my place.

[Velshin]

Raiding is just fine as it is. Do not change it.

And not every main villain was taken down by the players. For example: we needed Tirion, Maiev, Thrall.

I wouldnt play the game if I was just doing dirty job while other heroes(from the lore) would take my place.

I never said that....god are the people in the forum really that stupid? or is my English that bad to the point people misunderstand?

first of all I never said anything about players heroes just doing the dirty jobs while other heroes from the lore does end the threat of the major villains or anything like that...


I was talking about the god damn raid format here.... I was talking about raiding storyline = side story and the main story = campaign and questing. Is that clear now or shall I repeat myself?.....

[ceall]

Raids are the main selling point of wow. And as long as this is the case, raids MUST be the end of main Story strings. And to be totally honest, i LOVE that it is how it is.

On the other hand, OP could complain about why there's books being written which stories cannot be experienced in-game. In fact, many times you would have needed to have read the books in order to understand the in-game story.

[Elkfingers]

I never said that....god are the people in the forum really that stupid? or is my English that bad to the point people misunderstand?

first of all I never said anything about players heroes just doing the dirty jobs while other heroes from the lore does end the threat of the major villains or anything like that...


I was talking about the god damn raid format here.... I was talking about raiding storyline = side story and the main story = campaign and questing. Is that clear now or shall I repeat myself?.....

First of all, you are very smart. Your brain is literally galaxy sized, and everybody on here is basically braindead in comparison to you.

Hopefully that's enough to massage your giant, throbbing ego so you won't get all pissy again. On topic: it'd be really difficult to have the primary antagonists in the story have any real weight to them if players just slapped them in solo content. The whole point of having the major story arc set up antagonists is to provide context for the group content which forms the core of the multiplayer experience - you know, cos it's a massively multiplayer game.

Doing all the storytelling in solo content, and having multiplayer content effectively be an afterthought as far as the narrative goes feels like a pretty bad idea considering that the whole point of MMORPGs is for players to do stuff with other players.

[Eazy]

I never said that....god are the people in the forum really that stupid? or is my English that bad to the point people misunderstand?

first of all I never said anything about players heroes just doing the dirty jobs while other heroes from the lore does end the threat of the major villains or anything like that...


I was talking about the god damn raid format here.... I was talking about raiding storyline = side story and the main story = campaign and questing. Is that clear now or shall I repeat myself?.....

Raiding is just fine as it is. Do not change it.

Well. I think that my comment is exactly pointed at your thread. It's you who didn' t get my post.

Raiding = main story and it should be like that.

[loras]

I get what you're saying, but it already happens more than you think. Uldir pretty much was a side quest, in a sense no different from blackrock mountain's raids back in vanilla, or from the original Zul'gurub raid.
Similarly we had Helya and the Emerald Nightmare in Legion, Gruul in TBC, and so on.

Now the second half of what this dude says is more relevant to WoW's poor storytelling:

Raids are the main selling point of wow. And as long as this is the case, raids MUST be the end of main Story strings. And to be totally honest, i LOVE that it is how it is.

On the other hand, OP could complain about why there's books being written which stories cannot be experienced in-game. In fact, many times you would have needed to have read the books in order to understand the in-game story.

Hell even just allowing us to experience those stories in minor quests as spies, occasional tagalongs or simply because another quest brought us nearby, well, that'd clear things up immensely and mitigate some of the massive damage this distributed storytelling does.

But to conclude in regards to your point: They already do that to quite some extent, and as the BoD raid (and others before) have shown becoming a boss is certainly not necessarily an end.

Edit: i gotta say that the miscommunication and subsequent cattiness does none of you any favors.

[Razion]

Currently when we interact with major villains it can be deflating when we either confront an enemy that is completely immune or is able to be reduced to 1 hp but never below that or otherwise gets trivialized by some on-use item. But, as dungeon bosses there's the difference that while they are upscaled to be more threatening than quests dungeons are repeated content versus quests. And while players do often revisit quests on new alts - dungeons are also revisited on alts time and again so to that end it would probably be deflating to keep beating down these major villains in dungeons all the time. We already fight a lot of world bosses and such, and for those to be upgraded to major raid tier bosses would probably make those encounters more meaningful that just some random stuff could be pretty powerful - it can kind of make the entire world seem more threatening this way if everything can randomly be this strong, but it also introduces an element of "who is this, anyway, and why are we here," if it isn't entirely self-evident like with enemies like Onyxia where it is a big dragon in a cave and really you shouldn't need much more motivation than that sometimes.

But all the time? Maybe it would feel a little less like there were stakes if everything important was happening in dungeons and raids these epic huge fights requiring lots of coordination and effort ultimately resulted in less than dungeons or quests. It might feel a little tone-deaf or like the wrong things are emphasized or that the difficulty in terms of scope is all over the place or something. But it is a problem that people can't experience the stories solo in the raids more or less - but to do so kind of trivializes why you need the raid in the first place. It's kind of a necessary evil of the stakes being so high is that they have to be believable and if they aren't in game mechanics than are they even real stakes at that point? It's the kind of thing they can probably experiment with a tier and see if it works - but at the same time, I feel like we have had tiers before where people have gone, "yeah but who was that anyway and why did they matter?"

On paper as a fix for getting story in people's hands it seems better - but WoW isn't a single-player game, so single-player solutions shouldn't be used imo. The game needs more things like - oh I don't know, the Legion Pre-Expansion Invasions. These were accessible and open-world and the content scaled up and encouraged lots of players to participate so the stakes were higher and the threats were threatening but you could still go about at your leisure and enjoy things.

[Temp name]

there'd inevitibly be complaints about how the lorewise most powerful villains were being taken down by small groups and yet the petty villains of side stories were needing raids. not that in-game difficulty has ever truly been reflective of storywise power levels, but they have tried to keep it at least somewhat balanced

Just look at Anub'arak. Everyone complained he got taken out in a dungeon, so they added him back in as a raid boss.

[Uko]

Blizzard knows their niche and raiding is it. All splitting their attention into doing a single player story while relegating raiding to side content would do is make them a jack of all trades master of none. Their writers couldn't put out content even 1/100th as good as ffxiv story content with how often they just rehash their old stuff aka garosh2.0 or slyvanas.

[Saltysquidoon]

The foundation of this argument is flawed.

FFXIV puts major lore antagonists in raids and dungeons all the time. In fact many raids and dungeons are required to progress the MSQ. Also, there have been plenty of raids (and dungeons) that are essentially contained side stories in WoW (see every troll patch ever).

[Metrox]

Do you think if Blizzard decided to make raiding storyline not the end game storyline but a side story and you can experience the main major storyline by doing campaign quests (kinda similar to FFXIV and ESO)....the storytelling of WoW could be improved? by not making many major characters = raid bosses or 5 man dungeon bosses.


Discuss and thanks for reading everyone.

I kind of like the idea! Maybe even if it was just a single non connected raid to any story line of the expansion. I wouldn't mind running a raid with completely new bosses that aren't expansion characters. I also think that you would get a lot of lore sensitive people complaining. However, do "Real Raiders" care about story line that much? Or do they just want gear and achievements? I really don't think that they would care too much as long as the loot was good and they got some sort of achievement out of completing it.

Stay safe and have fun!!

[VinceVega]

Do you think if Blizzard decided to make raiding storyline not the end game storyline but a side story and you can experience the main major storyline by doing campaign quests (kinda similar to FFXIV and ESO)....the storytelling of WoW could be improved? by not making many major characters = raid bosses or 5 man dungeon bosses.


Discuss and thanks for reading everyone.

Completly against it. Because it makes the biggest and hardest enemies in the game... pointless? I like working towards it. There is a solo part to the story. Which is nearly everythign of every endgame questline in every addon. In the end you have to jump over your anxious shadow and play with other people.

Don't enable solo players in a MMO game!

FF14 raids are just shit. The solo story line... fine if you want that. But why play a MMO in the first place then?

[kranur]

Do you think if Blizzard decided to make raiding storyline not the end game storyline but a side story and you can experience the main major storyline by doing campaign quests (kinda similar to FFXIV and ESO)....the storytelling of WoW could be improved? by not making many major characters = raid bosses or 5 man dungeon bosses.


Discuss and thanks for reading everyone.

You'll just have yet another bad storyline. What would be the difference?

WoW is not built to have a maine storyline .. the main storyline is the side storyline as in 80% of the "campaign" is helping random groups of npcs that are not tied to the "main" storyline.

[Relapses]

Completly against it. Because it makes the biggest and hardest enemies in the game... pointless? I like working towards it. There is a solo part to the story. Which is nearly everythign of every endgame questline in every addon. In the end you have to jump over your anxious shadow and play with other people.

Don't enable solo players in a MMO game!

FF14 raids are just shit. The solo story line... fine if you want that. But why play a MMO in the first place then?

There are people who play this game and want it to be a single player game with MMO aspects attached to it. These are often the people you find on the forums complaining that the game feels like a single player game with MMO aspects attached it.