I gotta say, I really do think Legion was the high-point for WoW in terms of coolness

[Tarx]

With Legion the game become Diablo like. I really didn't like the AP grind Paragon and the mythic + dungeons Greater rifts. The wow had to be like all the others expansion before legion. With class sets and not the endless grind.

[Okacz]

Character progression? Lol

This one seems kind of baffling. If anything, I've heard people saying that there was TOO MUCH character progression. Constant changing of items, new progression systems (Artifact, extended artifact, Legendary progression, Netherlight thing) every patch, and of course endless progression - AP. In comparison to BC warlock wearing the same pants for the whole expansion, I'd say that's an improvement. Question is, was it really needed - Legion scared away a lot of players who prefered the old times, where they didn't have to progress their character in any meaningful way outside of 2 raids per week.

[Packmule]

That's your opinion. For a lot of people, including my own bubble of friends Legion was great. It's not that your opinion invalidates mine or vice versa.

Yet most of the people that love legion hate BfA
with a passion, whilst bfa is literally legion 2.0 with less casino mechanics, how can one be the best and the other the worst, when both share so many similarities?

[slime]

Glad theirs never gonna be a so called highpoint like legion, theirs no other expansion created that drifted so far away from what a good game WoW was.


Class halls were underwhelming.
Mage tower was a mess
Character progression? Lol
Suramar looked good, thats about it.
Legion story was sloppy.

The nighthold raid was an absolute masterpiece. Thats the peak legion made, other then that wtf did it realy do?

What's that line even mean? I had no issues with Mage Tower except in the beginning when it was brutally tough.. I don't know what was a "mess" about it.

[Packmule]

What's that line even mean? I had no issues with Mage Tower except in the beginning when it was brutally tough.. I don't know what was a "mess" about it.

Some classes were able to clear it in less then 3 attempts.

Tank challenge was bugged for over a month.

Some had a fair challenge

Aka a mess

[Gelannerai]

The class fantasy was probably the biggest win for Legion. The class halls and campaigns were just great to play through.

[erifwodahs]

Yet most of the people that love legion hate BfA
with a passion, whilst bfa is literally legion 2.0 with less casino mechanics, how can one be the best and the other the worst, when both share so many similarities?

That's a very shallow point of view. Very ignorant. Same as saying Apple = Samsung
Story is different
Phase of content release is different.
Meaningfulness of the new content is not there.
Character progression and path to progress is very different too.

[loras]

While i disagree on various points i do agree that Legion was one of the highpoints of the game.
Personally i only played the last two months of WoD and loved it, basebuilding included.
Despite all its flaws i'd argue the garrison was superior to most forms of player housing by the grace of combining functional stuff with customisable stuff.

[Claymore]

Yet most of the people that love legion hate BfA
with a passion, whilst bfa is literally legion 2.0 with less casino mechanics, how can one be the best and the other the worst, when both share so many similarities?

I'll actually agree, many of the mechanics we hate in BFA were actually introduced in Legion (similar to how everyone loves Wrath, but it also introduced Dungeon Finder, which many would say has hurt the game's community aspect).

I think one of the big problems BFA has is that a game is more than mechanics, it's also an "experience". What am I DOING in these two expansions?

In Legion, I was connecting with all of these amazing, storied factions from the entire history of the Warcraft universe, I was fighting the full might of the Burning Legion, each of my characters was becoming the ultimate paragon of their respective Class, I was getting to see long-forgotten areas (as well as new ones, some of which were duds), and I even got to visit motherf***ing ARGUS (even though it was underwhelming). Also, some of the best Class Armor sets in the entire game.

In BFA, I... went to help Jaina have an intervention with her mom, got thrown in jail, and spent much of the expansion fighting either random/low-level threats, or factions we've already fought a million times before (referring to the Horde, the Zandalari, and the Old Gods). No more class armor, and all the armor looks hella generic.

Mechanically, I don't really know I have a lot to complain about BFA. I missed my 2hand Frost DK, but that was Legion that gutted it, not BFA.

But Legion had all these OTHER things that were AWESOME, and completely over-the-top, it made it easy to overlook the things we didn't like about it.

I still hold that Kul Tiras is maybe one of the most well-designed areas in WoW, it actually feels like a believable island-nation. But otherwise, BFA just didn't do anything for me.

And that's what I mean when I say "coolness" in the thread's title. Mechanics aside, everything about Legion felt awesome and truly "epic" (again, save that I thought Argus should've been held as its own expansion, I thought our return there was a little underwhelming).

[Pakheth]

That's a very shallow point of view. Very ignorant. Same as saying Apple = Samsung
Story is different
Phase of content release is different.
Meaningfulness of the new content is not there.
Character progression and path to progress is very different too.

Not to mention completely different art direction, no tier sets, not the same diversity in mounts. You really can't say they are the same at all.

[Neuroticaine]

The only thing I really liked about Legion was playing a Shadow Priest. I did not care for the zones or the added end game zones, and I did not care for the raids either. Felt the same as those last two points throughout all of BFA as well, and if I didn't have an old group of people I've been raiding with for ages to play with, I probably wouldn't have played either of these past two expansions.

If they can get the kinks sorted out with Shadowlands, though, I am actually very much looking forward to it.

[Daedius]

I would say having to farm LK mount is worse. Imo. Fuck ICC

How so? Grinding 10k rep for the a 2-5% chance, vs a near instant of just entering raid to kill final boss quick for the week (using an alt's save to skip all bosses) with a ~2% drop?

Paragon mounts require hell of a lot more time investment...

[erifwodahs]

How so? Grinding 10k rep for the a 2-5% chance, vs a near instant of just entering raid to kill final boss quick for the week (using an alt's save to skip all bosses) with a ~2% drop?

Paragon mounts require hell of a lot more time investment...

I might be biased because I got all the mounts easy during Legion, but LK/Ulduar farm does my head in.

[McNeil]

Legion is where they started to make the game feel a lot more like Diablo 3 which is also what BFA has suffered from. They also went way overboard of making the player character feel ''special'', and way to much fanservice where they tried to deliver way to much (bringing Illidan back, nods to Azshara, lots of big names coming back who are reduced to being your servants, using the Emerald Nightmare concept for just a zone and gets wrapped up there, wasting the potential of Argus being much grander and possibly being its own expansion). It only had 4 leveling zones (Suramar was for max level only), demon hunter only has 2 specs and were total braindead to play, reused Dalaran as your main capital which I was already sick off.

Despite its faults it brought some good things aswell. The class hall campaigns were mostly solid (especially DK), mage tower was a good addition, Suramar looked incredible and I didn't mind questing there without flying, Nighthold was a good raid, I liked the progression of the vrykul story, content pacing was good, mythic+ brought something new while I would prefer the timer to be gone.

It felt like after the disaster that was WoD they really wanted to go all out on Legion. It had a lot of content but at the same time it also suffered from all kinds of poor design decisions which Blizzard continues to make. Its only my 4th favorite expansion behind TBC, WotLK and MoP.

[Arainie]

So you're not allowed to enjoy your class to its fullest with all three specs? Throw in the Legendaries, and trying to put some time into alts, it got incredibly frustrating and burned me out more quickly than anything I've ever experienced in a game before. I didn't even want to enjoy all three specs, just be able to play at least two of them. Then we had situations like Frost Mage which were so massively undertuned you had to level up weapons for specs you didn't want to play.

They're impossible mechanics to "just let happen", especially when you want to keep up with guildmates for raids and mythic dungeons; even moreso if you want to play with pugs who'll kick you at the drop of a hat.

We must live in completely different worlds. I raided Mythic all expansion long using all three specs on my priest and had at least two alts (changed alts a bit between patches, but two simultaneously kept up to date) geared through Heroic raids and M+ with decent AP levels. All effort it took me outside of 3 raids a week and at most a handful of M+ runs was doing the emissary quests every 3 days to keep the AP numbers up, which probably took a grand total of 2 hours per week on my 3 characters combined.

I'm not trying to devalue your experience, but anyone who fell behind in my guild did so by simply not playing outside of raids at all, not even during new patches. If anyone lost their long term raid spot, M+ team or anything like that due to legiondaries they struck gold in hindsight, you should never mix with people that are too short sighted to see beyond the next boss or two. That relationship would never have lasted anyway, and I bet that either the guilds/groups no longer exist or that there was another reason behind the lost spot (sue me, people love to make excuses for their own shortcomings and gameplay mistakes).

[Packmule]

I'll actually agree, many of the mechanics we hate in BFA were actually introduced in Legion (similar to how everyone loves Wrath, but it also introduced Dungeon Finder, which many would say has hurt the game's community aspect).

I think one of the big problems BFA has is that a game is more than mechanics, it's also an "experience". What am I DOING in these two expansions?

In Legion, I was connecting with all of these amazing, storied factions from the entire history of the Warcraft universe, I was fighting the full might of the Burning Legion, each of my characters was becoming the ultimate paragon of their respective Class, I was getting to see long-forgotten areas (as well as new ones, some of which were duds), and I even got to visit motherf***ing ARGUS (even though it was underwhelming). Also, some of the best Class Armor sets in the entire game.

In BFA, I... went to help Jaina have an intervention with her mom, got thrown in jail, and spent much of the expansion fighting either random/low-level threats, or factions we've already fought a million times before (referring to the Horde, the Zandalari, and the Old Gods). No more class armor, and all the armor looks hella generic.

Mechanically, I don't really know I have a lot to complain about BFA. I missed my 2hand Frost DK, but that was Legion that gutted it, not BFA.

But Legion had all these OTHER things that were AWESOME, and completely over-the-top, it made it easy to overlook the things we didn't like about it.

I still hold that Kul Tiras is maybe one of the most well-designed areas in WoW, it actually feels like a believable island-nation. But otherwise, BFA just didn't do anything for me.

And that's what I mean when I say "coolness" in the thread's title. Mechanics aside, everything about Legion felt awesome and truly "epic" (again, save that I thought Argus should've been held as its own expansion, I thought our return there was a little underwhelming).

Thanks for your response, and i dig your viewpoint. And i hope you have had a blast during your time on Azeroth, and broken shore^^ . I can see why bfa in alot of ways can be perceived as underwhelming. Lets just hope for a better tomorrow.

I myself have always been a raider, striving to be the best i could be, however during legions diablo 3 gameplay, i felt quickly burned out of the idiotic way of how the game was played. Some like it, others dont i suppose.

Aesthetically the game has always delivered, and it most likely will remain doing do!

[Doffen]

Glad theirs never gonna be a so called highpoint like legion, theirs no other expansion created that drifted so far away from what a good game WoW was.


Class halls were underwhelming.
Mage tower was a mess
Character progression? Lol
Suramar looked good, thats about it.
Legion story was sloppy.

The nighthold raid was an absolute masterpiece. Thats the peak legion made, other then that wtf did it realy do?

Sure, and that is your opinion. I disagree. Not about Nighthold though, I agree!!

I did write what Legion did, but to add some personal preferences I though the class design was fun, Suramar Insurrection with Nighthold coming after was at Ulduar/Storm Peaks Questline quality(my favorite questline), Profession Quests was great in addition to what I wrote at first. I did not write down World Quests, an improved daily quest system. Artifact Weapon was great character progression, something we did not have from before. I absolutely loved it. Legendaries had bad rng attached sure, the items on their own was great. Its a reason why they bring legiondairies back just without that much rng.

No other expansion I can find so many positives things to write about, so for me Legion is going to be the last peak of WoW. I really doubt they manage to make me pleased as much as back then.

- - - Updated - - -

This one seems kind of baffling. If anything, I've heard people saying that there was TOO MUCH character progression. Constant changing of items, new progression systems (Artifact, extended artifact, Legendary progression, Netherlight thing) every patch, and of course endless progression - AP. In comparison to BC warlock wearing the same pants for the whole expansion, I'd say that's an improvement. Question is, was it really needed - Legion scared away a lot of players who prefered the old times, where they didn't have to progress their character in any meaningful way outside of 2 raids per week.

You say baffling, while then you write it was too much of it. Then you list up the systems. So how can it be baffling when you admit there was character progression? Logical.

You say players got scared away, I say players felt it was about time. I see very few players saying they hated Artifact Weapon. On the opposite, Artifact Weapon and its progression was something a lot of players enjoyed.

[Uthan]

Legion was the first and only expansion that made me stop playing outside of end of expansion lulls. I play a Warrior though and it just felt super shitty being the only class that didn't get a proper order hall based on Warrior stuff but instead vrykul cause vikings were warriors or something.

[MoanaLisa]

Legion was a breath of fresh air after Warlords.

I don't know how fresh that air would have been had Warlords been a good expansion.

What directly precedes something can have a magnified effect on what comes after.

[erifwodahs]

Legion was the first and only expansion that made me stop playing outside of end of expansion lulls. I play a Warrior though and it just felt super shitty being the only class that didn't get a proper order hall based on Warrior stuff but instead vrykul cause vikings were warriors or something.

WTF warrior orderhall was the coolest stuff.