[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Demolitia]

An interesting thread here :
https://mobile.twitter.com/RaoulRupa...68127855923201
Edit: tl;dr the eu might have pushed too hard when it was ready compromise on fish and the UK was starting to soften on level playing field.

[Gorsameth]

An interesting thread here :
https://mobile.twitter.com/RaoulRupa...68127855923201
Edit: tl;dr the eu might have pushed too hard when it was ready compromise on fish and the UK was starting to soften on level playing field.

what is interesting about it? Just another leaver trying to say that the EU should move from their position because of some vague stuff the UK might or might not have done.

A reminder that the UK has already broken the WA, their word isn't worth shit at the moment.

And the EU not being ready for the UK to mean it and accept a no-deal? Their not blind, they read the news to. When the PM had to be forced to ask for the current extension at the 11th hour it was pretty clear Boris wanted a no-deal. They have also been getting the briefings from their own negotiation team, who are competent people with plenty of experience in trade negotiations. I believe they can spot the difference between the UK legit trying to reach a deal and just stalling for time and effect and the EU has repeatedly put the ball in the UK's court and told them they need to come with serious proposals.

The EU is still at the table because its the polite thing to do, I will confidently say they haven't actually believed the UK wants a deal for probably over a year.

[Demolitia]

what is interesting about it? Just another leaver trying to say that the EU should move from their position because of some vague stuff the UK might or might not have done.

A reminder that the UK has already broken the WA, their word isn't worth shit at the moment.

And the EU not being ready for the UK to mean it and accept a no-deal? Their not blind, they read the news to. When the PM had to be forced to ask for the current extension at the 11th hour it was pretty clear Boris wanted a no-deal. They have also been getting the briefings from their own negotiation team, who are competent people with plenty of experience in trade negotiations. I believe they can spot the difference between the UK legit trying to reach a deal and just stalling for time and effect and the EU has repeatedly put the ball in the UK's court and told them they need to come with serious proposals.

The EU is still at the table because its the polite thing to do, I will confidently say they haven't actually believed the UK wants a deal for probably over a year.

I think negotiators and eu politicians are rather impervious to what is going on in the british press. Barnier talks to Frost. Everything else should be posturing to them.
The UK seemed to warm up to the LPF and governance talks in the last week ( which is paramount to most EU countries). The Council could have indicated some willingness to move on fish (which frankly noone gives a shit about) instead of their grand statement of putting the responsibility of compromising on everything squarely on the UK.
Edit: it was unnecessarily cally cally BoJo's bluff and pushing him in a corner, instead of sticking to the usual neutral shit

[Gorsameth]

I think negotiators and eu politicians are rather impervious to what is going on in the british press. Barnier talks to Frost. Everything else should be posturing to them.
The UK seemed to warm up to the LPF and governance talks in the last week ( which is paramount to most EU countries). The Council could have indicated some willingness to move on fish (which frankly noone gives a shit about) instead of their grand statement of putting the responsibility of compromising on everything squarely on the UK.
Edit: it was unnecessarily cally cally BoJo's bluff and pushing him in a corner, instead of sticking to the usual neutral shit

Again, the UK broke the WA. What on earth would the EU compromise with a country that not even 3 weeks ago knowingly and willingly broke the standing agreement?

Also no one has pushed Johnson into a corner. He has always been in the corner, he has never left the corner. He loves his corner.
From day 1 he has been pursuing a no-deal brexit, he isn't being a 'tough negotiator'. He doesn't want a deal to happen.

[Demolitia]

Again, the UK broke the WA. What on earth would the EU compromise with a country that not even 3 weeks ago knowingly and willingly broke the standing agreement?

Also no one has pushed Johnson into a corner. He has always been in the corner, he has never left the corner. He loves his corner.
From day 1 he has been pursuing a no-deal brexit, he isn't being a 'tough negotiator'. He doesn't want a deal to happen.

That's why the level playing field and dispute settlement were so important, and fish was not.
French trawlers will get subsidies to buy license from british ones if shit goes south. The brits won't be able to export fish with bottlenecks at the borders.
The EU put this as a sticking point so the UK could win on this and the EU could sell a win on the rest. Their stance didn't help
Edit : both sides need to sell it as a win. A complete surrender won't pass the Commons. Compromsing the single market won't pass the EP.

[Slant]

It's not so simple for companies that might need excise duty forms, possibly international driver's license for truck drivers, extra vehicle or health insurance ... we are far from prepared.
Edit: I don't know which field you work in, but if there are 2-3 days queues at the border to the UK your produce is fucked, if there is no equivalence in services and qualifications, you're out of public procurement, possibly private one. If there is no agreement in dispute settlement you might be stuck in court for years if things go south. That's something big company can try to a degree, but there is still a huge potential for disruption for small and medium business, which is not up to German planning alone.

Except small and medium businesses might just export somewhere else. If Covid hasn't broken their backs, England surely won't. It's just a matter of fact that Brexit has been hugely overshadowed by Covid. Nobody here actually gives a fuck if they crash out. And once Covid is over and the economy is on an upswing by the end of 2021/start of 2022, whatever fallout happens from Brexit, it will be absorbed by that economic upswing. Easily.

- - - Updated - - -

An interesting thread here :
https://mobile.twitter.com/RaoulRupa...68127855923201
Edit: tl;dr the eu might have pushed too hard when it was ready compromise on fish and the UK was starting to soften on level playing field.

I don't agree with him. Or his understanding of what happens. Or what happens. Or how the EU operates. Basically, him being the advisor to May explains a lot of her confusion. Hard pass on what he has to say. The EU has no reason to trust the UK at all at this point. That the EU is even still talking to the UK is pure generosity. Concede? On what, the dissolution of the EU? Fucking imbecile should stop using twitter, it hurts his brain to get all that unwarranted attention, apparently...

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: it was unnecessarily cally cally BoJo's bluff and pushing him in a corner, instead of sticking to the usual neutral shit

There is no time to play nice anymore. Deal or no deal, it's come to that. As expected with a bunch of amateurs on the other side... The UK never intended to have good faith negotiations and every single signature had to be forced by the EU. Fuck that. Glad this shitshow is over in two months.

[Kallisto]

That's why the level playing field and dispute settlement were so important, and fish was not.
French trawlers will get subsidies to buy license from british ones if shit goes south. The brits won't be able to export fish with bottlenecks at the borders.
The EU put this as a sticking point so the UK could win on this and the EU could sell a win on the rest. Their stance didn't help
Edit : both sides need to sell it as a win. A complete surrender won't pass the Commons. Compromsing the single market won't pass the EP.

And the problem is the UK side is "compromise the single market for us." anything less than that is being seen as a surrender within the brexiteer bracket of the Tory party who have enough sway to force a no deal.

[Mayhem]

So the UK is finally, after all the feet and knees, holding the gun to its head yelling at the EU to stop them from shooting or else they're murderers.

Yep, this'll work, I'm sure.

[Forogil]

The EU put this as a sticking point so the UK could win on this and the EU could sell a win on the rest. Their stance didn't help
Edit : both sides need to sell it as a win. A complete surrender won't pass the Commons. Compromsing the single market won't pass the EP.

The situation is even more problematic for the weaker part, the uk, and that weakness will be even more exposed next year.
The EU consists of a number of countries with different priorities and it's necessary to get all (or almost all) of them to agree to a compromise.

That will take time that the uk does not have.

[dribbles]

So the UK is finally, after all the feet and knees, holding the gun to its head yelling at the EU to stop them from shooting or else they're murderers.

Yep, this'll work, I'm sure.

Not the case at all. The UK is clearly saying to the EU "We are done here". And then as Merkel orders the French to capitulate and give up on their claim to British fish:- The EU panic as Macron turns desperate with plea to UK - 'You need us!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...nson-latest-vn

Nope we don't need them, see ya. The EU should now also just walk away this continual begging is weak, embarrassing, desperate and pathetic.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Not the case at all. The UK is clearly saying to the EU "We are done here". And then as Merkel orders the French to capitulate and give up on their claim to British fish:- The EU panic as Macron turns desperate with plea to UK - 'You need us!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...nson-latest-vn

Nope we don't need them, see ya. The EU should now also just walk away this continual begging is weak, embarrassing, desperate and pathetic.

You do understand that the Express basically prints headlines and indeed entire articles that bear no relation to the truth? What am I saying, of course you don't.

Shall I go through the back catalogue of Express articles about how the EU will cave "any day now" that go back several years? Would that get through your reality deflecting delusion bubble? No, of course it won't.

I've given up responding to your bullshit posts, because there is no point. But your views are now colliding with reality on January 1st. And your views aren't going to survive the impact.

[zealo]

So the UK is finally, after all the feet and knees, holding the gun to its head yelling at the EU to stop them from shooting or else they're murderers.

Yep, this'll work, I'm sure.

The UK at this rate is intent on reliving the 1970s for a bit.

They'll eventually come around to their senses, but not until stooges like Dribbles have dragged their country through the mud a bit.

[ranzino]

75 days and less than 12h to disaster. i wonder if that train will speed up even, comes end of oct, because there is definitely a deadline for negotiations and after that it's "everyone for himself" mode.

[Acidbaron]

This is what happens when a conservative leadership is held hostage by fanatics, while they previously empowered and loved those fanatics as they put them into power.

Bojo can't be moderate as the base won't accept it, even if he wants a deal and wants to be reasonable they simply can't. Same issue May had the problem is not who is holding the talks the problems is those not wanting to vote for the deal and considering nobody wants to take responsibility for when this goes bad because the fanatics have been conditioned for years by the Media that the EU is evil and they are good and combine that with a political class that is completely self serving especially the conservatives.

So where is this going? Nowhere good sadly. UK households and some EU households are going to be hit by economic crisis while the corona crisis still hasn't fully set in as we have yet to see the bankruptcies from the corona crisis, but the UK is going to have it worse the EU has a rescue deal that allows governments to borrow money for a term of 10 years at zero interest rates. The UK does not have such a plan in place and even if it does cause i am not following this all too closely as it's fairly depressing to see how some people toy with livelihoods as if it's a game of monopoly the EU is a far large economy and thus can get far bigger rescue packages going.

I don't understand how conservatives after they torpedoed their economy with Thatcher for the working class are going to do it once again. They can blame it on external factors like immigrants all they want but those aren't in control here. This is going to fuck the working class and the middle class or what's left of it a decade from now.

I do truly hope this story chapter finally gets finished by the end of this year. There are far more important things for the EU to focus on this is a lost cause sadly.

[dribbles]

You do understand that the Express basically prints headlines and indeed entire articles that bear no relation to the truth? What am I saying, of course you don't.

Shall I go through the back catalogue of Express articles about how the EU will cave "any day now" that go back several years? Would that get through your reality deflecting delusion bubble? No, of course it won't.

I've given up responding to your bullshit posts, because there is no point. But your views are now colliding with reality on January 1st. And your views aren't going to survive the impact.

If this is a mess come January 1st you know who will take the blame? It won't be Covid but extreme remainers like you.

If your lot hadn't tried to subvert democracy and accepted the Brexit referendum result instead of trying to overturn it things could have been so so different. But oh no, pushing for a second fixed referendum with three options to split the leave vote, remember that?, among many many other examples are what drove the people and Boris to this point, no chance of a moderate exit and towards a glorious no deal.

Luckily for me, albeit unknowingly you worked for me and what I and millions wanted all along. We are on the same side, it is as much down to you as I that compromise with the EU failed, so thank you.

The difference between us is if it all goes tits up you will be the fall guys, not freedom loving brexiteers like me. If only you had listened...

[Mayhem]

Looks like the bot code finally gave up and spews random nonsense that resembles coherent sentences only vaguely anymore.

[Huehuecoyotl]

If this is a mess come January 1st you know who will take the blame? It won't be Covid but extreme remainers like you.

If your lot hadn't tried to subvert democracy and accepted the Brexit referendum result instead of trying to overturn it things could have been so so different. But oh no, pushing for a second fixed referendum with three options to split the leave vote, remember that?, among many many other examples are what drove the people and Boris to this point, no chance of a moderate exit and towards a glorious no deal.

Luckily for me, albeit unknowingly you worked for me and what I and millions wanted all along. We are on the same side, it is as much down to you as I that compromise with the EU failed, so thank you.

The difference between us is if it all goes tits up you will be the fall guys, not freedom loving brexiteers like me. If only you had listened...

Hahahahaha. Priceless. That's going to be your defence when this all fucks up in January? That it's our fault for not believing in Brexit enough?

Fuck off. This is yours. At least be adult enough to own it; you spent years telling us that Brexit was an unstoppable force for good. Now suddenly it's so rickety that it can't survive a small child pointing at it saying "hey, it's naked".

Your cause. Your determination to push it through at all costs. Your outcome. Own it. You can't even say you weren't warned, we fucking told you in great detail and repeatedly over a period of years. We told you what would happen, we made it clear that this would be the result. You didn't listen, you didn't learn. You're about to see the inevitable result of what you wished for. Hopefully it will be a teachable moment for you, but I doubt it.

[Gorsameth]

It really is a thing of beauty. Johnson won the election almost a year ago. it will have been a year when Brexit finally happens, but ofcourse its everyone elses fault if things go wrong.

The people wanting and actively pursuing a no-deal exit will have been in charge, but its everyone's fault but theirs.

[ranzino]

It really is a thing of beauty. Johnson won the election almost a year ago. it will have been a year when Brexit finally happens, but ofcourse its everyone elses fault if things go wrong.

The people wanting and actively pursuing a no-deal exit will have been in charge, but its everyone's fault but theirs.

how long until this charade implodes ?

[Inuyaki]

how long until this charade implodes ?

Somewhere between now and next year. I bet around early Dev is when the panic will begin. But we will see...