I mean feedback takes time to be taken into consideration. and simplfying like this isn't really helping. Have to wonder if Blizzard delayed BFA would it still be the same. I dunno
I mean feedback takes time to be taken into consideration. and simplfying like this isn't really helping. Have to wonder if Blizzard delayed BFA would it still be the same. I dunno
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
in a lot of cases from what is being shared that isnt even simplified
concerns about classes and talents and their performance were being shared and devs are in those forums telling players "ok dont choose that talent, those numbers arent possible, that boss is killable"
if you told me a car had a flat tire and i told you that since you arent a mechanic you dont know what you are talking about and waited until the tire blew to agree with you taht isnt a problem with communication its a problem with being stubborn
add the fact that one of the devs was apparently letting the fact he was a class developer get to his head while raiding and sucked at his class while telling players how the class worked...yeah no
on the topic of bfa though?? i dont think a delay would ahve fixed the issues
you had azerite traits that were 80% passive to the point you wouldnt notice them
you had classes that needed them to function
the armor system itself was flawed
the best way to farm azerite was islands even though in legion AP was found everywhere so there was never really a best way
honestly what we had in 8.3 was what we would have had at launch maybe if they acted on feedback but as we can see now the developers are actually stubborn
I do wish the example used wasn't talents. Because on the matter of talents I 100% agree with that dev saying the problem is theorycrafters.
But in a more general sense the fact that actual number-crunchers are ignored in, presumably, favor of a Discord populated by the Youtube Outrage Machine explains a lot about why the game's design lashes about wildly and seems to only get further stripped-down and dumbed-down every patch. The numbers guys are telling them how to fix what they have, the "Influencers" are just screaming "RIP CORD RIP CORD"
FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)
"this talent will never be used ebcause it doesn't feel good"
should not get the response "then dont use it" because that is how you get a dead talent
well with influencers you have two sets
1. the guys that understand numbers and understand how the systems work while effecting those numbers
2. the guys that dont care about the numbers and only QoL
so the big guys that raid mythic look at it like "hey this doesnt work right here are the numbers. Only 18% of azerite traits effect gameplay. You have different covenant abilities that work differently and you cant balance an AoE ability with a ST burst ability no matter how you try." and people like bellular or T&E are like "we dont understand how the system effects us but it doesnt feel good"
im also not seeing the outrage machine people talk about outside of the fringe creators like heelz which nobody should take seriously
Last edited by Revamp Man; 2020-10-17 at 06:09 PM.
i don't think is rly a problem with theorycrafters about talents when most of time 2 of the talents in a row are absolutely dogshit.
If the devs made talents more balanced, or at least don't differ that much in dps, there would not be a problem on that part, at least not like it is now..
Honestly I do like the system of
Talents you can't change (Shadowlands covenants)
Talents its inconvenient to change (Shadowlands Talents)
Talents you can change at will (Shadowlands Legendaries)
But maybe if they just went back to calling these talents, I do miss having legendary equipment tied to the story that you advance over time
Talents are part of Class design so....yeah class design which are covanents so thats where you look for some class design. I don't think we need to regurgitate this stuff over and over, it gets dull and demoralizing and I'm sure there's more to the story behind the scenes.
TLDR: Devs sometimes you'll end up being wrong...or right, its ok to be wrong. And..yes Blizzard does listen clearly there is some understanding going on and the wow team isn't a hivemind, there could be 1 or 2 people that are POSSIBLY(Emphasis on possibly) being way too egotistical.
Last edited by Aeluron Lightsong; 2020-10-17 at 06:45 PM.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
This is total nonsense because you're acting like the internet outrage machine people and numbers people are different people.
That's completely untrue. Just completely.
It was true once, like fucking TEN YEARS AGO but now? No. Four years ago? No.
Now the "numbers people" are part of the same machine. Sometimes it's a outrage person just using numbers, either their own or someone else's, sometimes it's a numbers person making a really dubious representation of their numbers in order to get clicks or views or talked about or just to convince Blizzard to buff their spec, but it's the same deal now.
TLDR: the idea that independent, unbiased, purely helpful and honest "numbers people" exist is a fantasy.
Last edited by Eurhetemec; 2020-10-17 at 11:54 PM.
the outrage seems to be aimed at the streamers from players instead of from the streamers to the game devs
ive seen more threads saying "influencers cry to change the game and ruin it" more than i have seen a streamer sit on their stream complaining about how one aspect of the game absolutely needs to change
the theory crafters dont really take part in either but the fact blizzard condescends to the theory crafters while sending influencer thank you packs is kinda dumb
Blizzard isn't condescending enough to theorycrafters IMO. It's the MMO equivalent of people who suck at golf and try and convince their party that its because their clubs are cheap. Behaving like that in real life will make people roll their eyes at you and think you are a petulant child, which is not surprisingly how I feel about theorycrafters.
There is nothing wrong with minmaxing or theorycrafting, it's only bad when the game changes and bends to their will.
Minmaxers become an issues when they force the game to become more about math rather than feel and gameplay fun.
Min maxing really shouldn't get in the way of fun gameplay this includes anything new ideas Blizzard tries. Covanents though..if it was just theme and the sets you'd get, it would be fine.
#TeamLegion #UnderEarthofAzerothexpansion plz #Arathor4Alliance #TeamNoBlueHorde
Warrior-Magi
Class tuning is something I have always wondered about. I'm sure most of it goes above my head and I would be unable to tackle it, but I still think it can be better.
I have built a real time data streaming process. The technology behind this process had six 'nobs and levers' that could be adjusted to make the process work more efficiently. We studied data volumes and were able to tune the process to work most efficiently within 4 windows based on data volumes. It took a few months, but it was done.
It is all just numbers. Lost of complex algorithms, but just numbers. Numbers can be tweaked. They should be able to modify things to improve balance. There are great tools built by the community. Surely they have better or could use the same to help.
I believe from a budgetary POV, they don't dedicate the resources to balancing. I don't think class balance is a full time job for anyone. It is just a small step in their development process.
#TeamTinkers
While there's overlap between the two, you're right, most minmaxers aren't theorycrafters & instead rely on the testing of others to find what's best.
Still, I'd argue when a build like the current DH one ends up being the best of the bunch, that's the fault of balance rather than a fault of the community for making use of it. Is it fun? Not really, but it's more fun than holding 19 other people back. Of course that's not an issue now the expansion is over (& nor is it an issue for anyone raiding LFR through Heroic), but who knows what Castle Nathria will hold.
I don't think that's what happens, though. All we have is whinging from a few self-proclaimed theorycrafters, who frankly, seem like the same Internet Outrage Squad that was being complained about.
And the specific complaint of "condescending and rude" is one that rings totally false and bullshit to me. I've seen exactly the sort of forum I presume they're discussing, and I've seen people claim that they're being condescended to, when they simply are not, but they're just being politely told they're wrong. Same with rudeness - some people can't handle being told they're not right, and are often extremely rude themselves, but get incredibly upset if anyone is even mildly rude back (for evidence see a shit-ton of posts on this forum).
So you're just spreading cheap bullshit drama, frankly.