They need to get of borrowed power!

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Time to get over this one way or another.
Its not going anyway, and acting like its a new concept is deceiving and foolish.

Giving players huge power is what makes the expansion compelling for years instead of weeks like Classic.
Removing it would remove a lot of value from all the recent additions to the game, and they frankly aren't creative enough to make it work now-a-days.

Hate it or love it, its here to stay.

I know you think it would make the game better by forcing them to remove it, but it wouldn't, because what would they do instead?

[Kralljin]

Time to get over this one way or another.

People said the same thing about Titanforging, yet here we are.

Took no less than 7 years to get rid off it, but they got rid off it.

Giving players huge power is what makes the expansion compelling for years instead of weeks like Classic.

That may be the case because there have been people playing Classic for over a decade to min/max the shit out of this game and then clear it within weeks, because the content is 15 years old.

Not to mention the variety of other issues such as the rather bonkers PvP system.

[Eurhetemec]

settle down dude all he did was post his thoughts on the current state of classes,which hes entitled to do,dont like them dont reply and move on.you seem a little agitated if im honest.

No he's right to question someone claiming they've been away for years and then come back, yet using the exact terminology Youtubers use and making the same complaint as them, especially when that person claims they didn't watch Youtubers and just came up with it independently. It's fine to agree with them. It's fine to have that opinion, but acting like you came up with it is pretty weird.

[arkanon]

This. It's not fun losing a load of cool shit every expansion. Losing the azerite beam or not being able to use it anymore isn't fun. From what I gather you still can but only in non expansion areas.

I get maybe removing the odd spell or two but borrowed power has been going on for 8 years now. It's time to stop and actually invent interesting permanent solutions.

The problem with borrowed power and shit like this is it just makes class balance even more all over the place.

No, having it in the first place instead of building new things into classes is what feels bad, you are looking at this entirely backwards.

- - - Updated - - -

settle down dude all he did was post his thoughts on the current state of classes,which hes entitled to do,dont like them dont reply and move on.you seem a little agitated if im honest.

Nah, he's right, side with OP all you want but don't be so ignorant as to think this person has genuinely been "away for years" and yet uses all the buzzwords from the last 6 months and jumps straight on the current popular bandwagon.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Time to get over this one way or another.
Its not going anyway, and acting like its a new concept is deceiving and foolish.

Giving players huge power is what makes the expansion compelling for years instead of weeks like Classic.
Removing it would remove a lot of value from all the recent additions to the game, and they frankly aren't creative enough to make it work now-a-days.

Hate it or love it, its here to stay.

I know you think it would make the game better by forcing them to remove it, but it wouldn't, because what would they do instead?

When your case is so weak you have to bring up Classic as the example.

[Gonder]

Yeah, even I'm starting to get sick of it, and that's coming from someone who takes a long time to start caring about things like this. It's annoying having to lose so much power at the start of each expansion, but I think my main peeve with it is how Blizzard tends to design classes around their borrowed power abilities, so some perform like garbage without them. I'd much rather have each spec be fun and balanced on their own rather than having to rely on borrowed power.

[deenman]

I came back after years away. Been playing since the start of BC. Some specs feel awful. Enhance is ok with certain talent builds but terrible otherwise. Ret, still feels awful. Rest Shaman feels really bad. I wish they would focus more on the core of each spec. This game is so exhausting for non "meta" specs. I may just be done with WoW. The class balance is still awful. I can't go another 2 to 3 years with Mage, Rogue and Lock being there DPS while everyone else fights for middle bottom of the pack in class design.

how the heck does resto feel awful?its literaly been the same spec since tbc lol,with a few extra spells added,but basicaly its the same fundamental gameplay,its by far one of the most unchanged specs in the game

also ret feels pretty good...plays a lot like mop,you crusader strike with 2 charges,you judgement and get holy power from it,you have blade of justice instead of exorcism,you got your holy power spenders for single and aoe,and now we got our execute back as a base spell,how is it bad?

yeah the balance isnt perfect,but its pretty close actualy,only in 8.3 did some specs go a bit to crazy with stat stacking corruptions,also...rogue hasnt been a top dps since cataclysm,it had a few patches where it shined like in uldir,but it got nerfed

[facefist]

Yeah it's definitely believable that you came up with the exact same terminology for the exact same systems as the community has been using for the exact same copy/pasted complaints for the last six+ months without ever engaging with that community. I've always wondered what people like you get out of posting stuff like this - is it attention? Are you just trying to boost your post count for whatever reason? It's fascinating

Sunslayer has made several similar threads over the couple of months. And every single thread mentions how broken some dps specs are.

settle down dude all he did was post his thoughts on the current state of classes,which hes entitled to do,dont like them dont reply and move on.you seem a little agitated if im honest.

The thing is that he has made a new thread about his same thoughts several times now. Whenever the old thread dies down, he makes a new one. It's getting ridicilous and it's just spam at this point.

Just check his started threads and you'll see. This is his QQ thread number #5 or smth about the class design in SL.

[cparle87]

settle down dude all he did was post his thoughts on the current state of classes,which hes entitled to do,dont like them dont reply and move on.you seem a little agitated if im honest.

Nzx is calling him out for lying. In his OP he said he's just come back from years away yet he's using the same lingo that current players are using, like "borrowed power" which he shouldn't have known if he had, in reality, just come back. Imagine trying to claim you're a time traveller from say the 1800s but you use a word that wasn't invented until the 1940s and someone goes 'aha' at you.

[Schattenlied]

Yeah it's definitely believable that you came up with the exact same terminology for the exact same systems as the community has been using for the exact same copy/pasted complaints for the last six+ months without ever engaging with that community. I've always wondered what people like you get out of posting stuff like this - is it attention? Are you just trying to boost your post count for whatever reason? It's fascinating

You act like youtube is the only place he could have learned the term borrowed power... Not like it's used on the forums, reddit, and here regularly or anything.

[lanesia24]

I came back after years away. Been playing since the start of BC. Some specs feel awful. Enhance is ok with certain talent builds but terrible otherwise. Ret, still feels awful. Rest Shaman feels really bad. I wish they would focus more on the core of each spec. This game is so exhausting for non "meta" specs. I may just be done with WoW. The class balance is still awful. I can't go another 2 to 3 years with Mage, Rogue and Lock being there DPS while everyone else fights for middle bottom of the pack in class design.

This is how you try to sound like you are saying something without really saying anything of value whatsoever.

[Pandragon]

Ion said in an interview that he likes this borrowed power concept, and will continue to have it in the game.

[hulkgor]

I came back after years away. Been playing since the start of BC. Some specs feel awful. Enhance is ok with certain talent builds but terrible otherwise. Ret, still feels awful. Rest Shaman feels really bad. I wish they would focus more on the core of each spec. This game is so exhausting for non "meta" specs. I may just be done with WoW. The class balance is still awful. I can't go another 2 to 3 years with Mage, Rogue and Lock being there DPS while everyone else fights for middle bottom of the pack in class design.

Gotta say i disagree with you. And the lack of balance you speak of is only meaningful for bleeding edge raiders on the world first race or the MDI crowd, it has very little impact for the general population of the game.

but hey, if the vocal minority shouts it non-stop, people will just start parroting it.

finally, you dont even know what you're whining about? Is it the existence of borrowed power? What does borrowed power have to do with your notion of the 3 top dogs (mage\rogue\lock it seems?) being so far above the 'non-meta specs'?

I dont get it.

[VinceVega]

I came back after years away. Been playing since the start of BC. Some specs feel awful. Enhance is ok with certain talent builds but terrible otherwise. Ret, still feels awful. Rest Shaman feels really bad. I wish they would focus more on the core of each spec. This game is so exhausting for non "meta" specs. I may just be done with WoW. The class balance is still awful. I can't go another 2 to 3 years with Mage, Rogue and Lock being there DPS while everyone else fights for middle bottom of the pack in class design.

Disagree. Never had problems with any DPS Spec. Most of the times the pure DMG specs have one that is not playable in PvE but that is it.
Even Shadow was playable in BFA. Just boring. The core of the class is there. You won't relly get much in SL but one activ ability and a few passive things. Not even the new legendaries change much about any class.
But seems like you made up your mind about wow a long time ago.
You start nothing but negative threads.

Also you came back after years? #doubt

[Kaver]

Time to get over this one way or another.
Its not going anyway, and acting like its a new concept is deceiving and foolish.

Giving players huge power is what makes the expansion compelling for years instead of weeks like Classic.
Removing it would remove a lot of value from all the recent additions to the game, and they frankly aren't creative enough to make it work now-a-days.

Hate it or love it, its here to stay.

I know you think it would make the game better by forcing them to remove it, but it wouldn't, because what would they do instead?

I think the point is that classes shouldn’t rely on borrowed systems to be playable. The base of Classes should be designed to be fun and smooth even without the borrowed system.

[javierdsv]

You can't be forever powerful if you want expansions, and they can't just add new permanent spells every now and then because we would have no screen space anymore and they would be hell to balance (And Blizzard already sucks at balancing the game).

They could add a new row of talents sometimes though.

[Kazlofski]

They clearly can't balance shit in this game, so the least they could do is let different specs/classes shine through different patches, so everyone gets to have some fun at least and their mains be useful for a time. So boring to see the same classes being OP while others are almost as useless as playing them on classic.

[WowIsDead64]

I came back after years away. Been playing since the start of BC. Some specs feel awful. Enhance is ok with certain talent builds but terrible otherwise. Ret, still feels awful. Rest Shaman feels really bad. I wish they would focus more on the core of each spec. This game is so exhausting for non "meta" specs. I may just be done with WoW. The class balance is still awful. I can't go another 2 to 3 years with Mage, Rogue and Lock being there DPS while everyone else fights for middle bottom of the pack in class design.

I agree. Such systems should be about endgame progression, not about "take baseline power away from player and force him to grind it back in time-gated fashion".

[ohwell]

Yes, they do. It is quite subjective, you see. And AFAIK you don't lose a bunch of spells every time you replace your gear. Terrible strawman.

Pretty sure tier bonuses were exactly like that. So you actually had "borrowed power" several times during an expansion.

[glowpipe]

I think borrowed powers sucks aswell. But how would your character feel if it got new shit every expansion ? it would be bloated like hell, its limited how many new abilities and system a char can have at one time