Has LFR always been this bad?

[zaxlor]

So, little backstory - Played BfA at release, I think up until the Jaina raid or the Naga raid was released. I know I stopped playing before even stepping foot into the Naga raid, or finishing off the questing zone for it.

After hitting level 50 on a brand new Warrior, I thought I'd head into LFR. I remembered it being pretty chill about a year-or-so ago when I played. Most people seemed to know the tactics. If they didn't, bosses died 2nd or 3rd attempt. It didn't take that long to find a group. Oh God. How times have changed.

Five LFRs, in a row, have resulted in me joining a broken raid that's 1 tank down and 2-3 stacks gained of Determination. The first one was Crucible of Storms (which I know is meant to be "hard"), but no-one, myself included seemed to have any idea what to do! Apparantly you can kill it with a single tank! Well, good luck with that! So, after wiping 3 or 4 times, someone ninja-pulled while the raid of 10~ players left were waiting for more to join and I quit.

Tried to join it again later in the day. Same thing. Missing 1 tank, high on Determination. I left.

Tried to join for The Circle of Stars - Places me at the 2nd boss, Azshara. I ask in chat what the strats are as it's my first time here. The only reply is 2 stacks of determination. And only one tank. After about 10-15 minutes of people joining, people leaving and never finding a second tank, I left too.

I qued up for it again and it placed me at the first boss. Again, I ask what's going on. Silence. We wipe. No-one knows you have to kill the puffer fish. We re-try. We wipe, as at the second ledge, no-one but me is killing pufferfish.

And now I'm sat in a LFR instance, waiting with six other people for the group to re-fill. I don't ever remember it being quite this bad, even back when it first launched in Cata, or when you could legit go AFK during bosses for MoP. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Should I just flat-out advoid LFR and try to find some people running the raids on normal mode? 'cos after today I'm starting to question why anyone would legit sub month after month for this kind of content!



TL;DR: LFR sucks and keeps putting me into raids with only one tank. No-one knows the tactics. Is this normal 2 years into an exspansion?

[dispatchcrab]

I think there is many problems with LFR and honestly I think one of the big ones is people cant be bothered they AFK dont try or even try and die early to afk the boss fight which results generally with 10 people slowly carrying the raiding trying to dps the boss down.

I know there are merits to the LFR system but personally I dont think it should ever have been a thing while I agree everyone should see the content with 3 standard raid difficulty's already being in the game I dont see any issue with just forcing people to find a pug group for normal towards the end of a raid teir when it should be easier.

[Creedo]

It has been this way since LFR was established in Cata. Nothing has changed and still is this way. Sometimes you get easier encounters where you make it through fine, however, with fights like N'zoth or Azshara, no one is going to listen or research. Your only chance to defeat them is to get 10 stacks of Determination. Even then you may get stuck in a never-ending N'zoth. I found it worse during SoO in MoP where I could never get a clean clear. N'zoth is definitely a challenge on LFR because only 1-3 people know the fight no one will listen to commands, research, read the dungeon (at minimum), and is there for free loot.

[dacoolist]

So, little backstory - Played BfA at release, I think up until the Jaina raid or the Naga raid was released. I know I stopped playing before even stepping foot into the Naga raid, or finishing off the questing zone for it.

After hitting level 50 on a brand new Warrior, I thought I'd head into LFR. I remembered it being pretty chill about a year-or-so ago when I played. Most people seemed to know the tactics. If they didn't, bosses died 2nd or 3rd attempt. It didn't take that long to find a group. Oh God. How times have changed.

Five LFRs, in a row, have resulted in me joining a broken raid that's 1 tank down and 2-3 stacks gained of Determination. The first one was Crucible of Storms (which I know is meant to be "hard"), but no-one, myself included seemed to have any idea what to do! Apparantly you can kill it with a single tank! Well, good luck with that! So, after wiping 3 or 4 times, someone ninja-pulled while the raid of 10~ players left were waiting for more to join and I quit.

Tried to join it again later in the day. Same thing. Missing 1 tank, high on Determination. I left.

Tried to join for The Circle of Stars - Places me at the 2nd boss, Azshara. I ask in chat what the strats are as it's my first time here. The only reply is 2 stacks of determination. And only one tank. After about 10-15 minutes of people joining, people leaving and never finding a second tank, I left too.

I qued up for it again and it placed me at the first boss. Again, I ask what's going on. Silence. We wipe. No-one knows you have to kill the puffer fish. We re-try. We wipe, as at the second ledge, no-one but me is killing pufferfish.

And now I'm sat in a LFR instance, waiting with six other people for the group to re-fill. I don't ever remember it being quite this bad, even back when it first launched in Cata, or when you could legit go AFK during bosses for MoP. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Should I just flat-out advoid LFR and try to find some people running the raids on normal mode? 'cos after today I'm starting to question why anyone would legit sub month after month for this kind of content!



TL;DR: LFR sucks and keeps putting me into raids with only one tank. No-one knows the tactics. Is this normal 2 years into an exspansion?

LFR isn't just toxic, it's actually hard due to the fact that the players in there now are there for a carry. I did zoth LFR ONE TIME, and let me tell you something.. I actually spent LESS time killing zoth the first week second week ON HEROIC when people DIDNT HAVE THE GEAR than I did on LFR Zoth.

tl;dr never EVER go into lfr, queue up for normal because LFR is actual cancer, and the people that go into it are even worse

[crusadernero]

Its always been shite. Its totally random how a run can go, but often enough its shit. I understand why Blizzard has it in the game though, to make sure everyone see the raid content.

Problem is, the game feature itself is a bad experience. Except from seeing the raid once, I have no idea why people would do LFR more than once to see the raid.

[aceperson]

the reason why it is worse this expac is because the devs actually tried to make bad players try to learn something. blizz didn't really nerf any lfr bosses just because of some complaining.

do you remember durumu in throne of thunder? on lfr, only about 5 people would survive the maze phase and they would kill the boss for the other 20 people who couldn't be bothered to learn. now imagine durumu from back then not being so easy that an easy mode raid boss could be five manned in what is meant for a 25 person raid.

that is what has changed. blizz is forcing these people into a brick wall and these people would rather continue to hit the brick wall than learn.

[potis]

And now I'm sat in a LFR instance, waiting with six other people for the group to re-fill. I don't ever remember it being quite this bad, even back when it first launched in Cata, or when you could legit go AFK during bosses for MoP. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Should I just flat-out advoid LFR and try to find some people running the raids on normal mode? 'cos after today I'm starting to question why anyone would legit sub month after month for this kind of content!

So you are basically trying to AFK-get carried because you are used to it and so is everyone else in the LFR has the same mentality, and nothing actually gets done.

Figure me surprised, but no, asking for Blizzard to implement any sort of minimum goals/check back in 2014 about the same situation rising is "toxic community".

[TheRevenantHero]

Well your only other option is looking in the LFG lists which is primarily dominated by people either selling runs or expect you to have an ilvl 10 higher than what normal drops for normal mode. So it's not just LFR. the entire raiding community is exceptionally toxic.

[Hinastorm]

The tank part is out of your hands of course, but you're literally part of the problem with all of your actions you described to us.

And you are seemingly completely ignorant of that fact.

[LordVargK]

It has been this way since LFR was established in Cata. Nothing has changed and still is this way. Sometimes you get easier encounters where you make it through fine, however, with fights like N'zoth or Azshara, no one is going to listen or research. Your only chance to defeat them is to get 10 stacks of Determination. Even then you may get stuck in a never-ending N'zoth. I found it worse during SoO in MoP where I could never get a clean clear. N'zoth is definitely a challenge on LFR because only 1-3 people know the fight no one will listen to commands, research, read the dungeon (at minimum), and is there for free loot.

That's not really true though. In Cata you had regular raiders in LfR because they wanted to get tier set items. Often they queued in groups, because in cata loot was still rolled upon and could be traded. That's why determination was not needed in cata. Come MoP and you got personal loot, meaning you had no incentive to queue with a group of friends. Come Legion and M+ is introduced, taking lfr out of the gearing up process. Come BfA and tier sets are removed.
Bit for bit lfr became more and more useless for people who understand what they are doing in the game. It was always a clown fiesta. But it got worse over time (also because the community demanded so).

So no, in my view LFR got worse over time. And I would not touch that with a 10ft pole anymore.

[lolcats121]

Pugging normal is literally easier than lfr at this point, it's crazy.

[Firebert]

do you remember durumu in throne of thunder? on lfr, only about 5 people would survive the maze phase and they would kill the boss for the other 20 people who couldn't be bothered to learn.

It wouldn't be so bad if the fucking maze had clearly defined edges at certain graphics levels as opposed to "everything is on fire and you have to guess where the fire isn't".

Because that boss was more or less impossible for me as the maze was not clear on spawn.

[kranur]

Well your only other option is looking in the LFG lists which is primarily dominated by people either selling runs or expect you to have an ilvl 10 higher than what normal drops for normal mode. So it's not just LFR. the entire raiding community is exceptionally toxic.

This pretty much. LFR is fine .. players on the other hand ..

[Firebert]

Should I just flat-out advoid LFR and try to find some people running the raids on normal mode?

Unfortunately the raiding scene is on the verge of collapse:

*Anyone who wants to progress on their own can only run LFR; it is extremely poorly tuned for solo end-game content (as you have experienced), which is disappointing considering that it is the future of raiding content
*Normal and beyond is basically impossible to get into right now solo unless you have millions of gold or already have the gear; this clearly implies that Normal and Heroic should probably be added to the LFD queue to remove gatekeeping corruption from the community (a la LFD, LFR)
*Guilds of players aren't raiding unless it's for gold as above.

If we get the status quo in Shadowlands I expect Blizzard to step in (whether they do or not is up to them).

[Bloodyleech]

It wouldn't be so bad if the fucking maze had clearly defined edges at certain graphics levels as opposed to "everything is on fire and you have to guess where the fire isn't".

Because that boss was more or less impossible for me as the maze was not clear on spawn.

It was, you just had to have a top-down view. Which you should use in raids anyway, imo.

OP: LFR sucks, it ever sucked and it will forever suck. Normal is easier and faster than doing all LFR wings. Sometimes even heroic is easier.

[Depakote]

So, little backstory - Played BfA at release, I think up until the Jaina raid or the Naga raid was released. I know I stopped playing before even stepping foot into the Naga raid, or finishing off the questing zone for it.

After hitting level 50 on a brand new Warrior, I thought I'd head into LFR. I remembered it being pretty chill about a year-or-so ago when I played. Most people seemed to know the tactics. If they didn't, bosses died 2nd or 3rd attempt. It didn't take that long to find a group. Oh God. How times have changed.

Five LFRs, in a row, have resulted in me joining a broken raid that's 1 tank down and 2-3 stacks gained of Determination. The first one was Crucible of Storms (which I know is meant to be "hard"), but no-one, myself included seemed to have any idea what to do! Apparantly you can kill it with a single tank! Well, good luck with that! So, after wiping 3 or 4 times, someone ninja-pulled while the raid of 10~ players left were waiting for more to join and I quit.

Tried to join it again later in the day. Same thing. Missing 1 tank, high on Determination. I left.

Tried to join for The Circle of Stars - Places me at the 2nd boss, Azshara. I ask in chat what the strats are as it's my first time here. The only reply is 2 stacks of determination. And only one tank. After about 10-15 minutes of people joining, people leaving and never finding a second tank, I left too.

I qued up for it again and it placed me at the first boss. Again, I ask what's going on. Silence. We wipe. No-one knows you have to kill the puffer fish. We re-try. We wipe, as at the second ledge, no-one but me is killing pufferfish.

And now I'm sat in a LFR instance, waiting with six other people for the group to re-fill. I don't ever remember it being quite this bad, even back when it first launched in Cata, or when you could legit go AFK during bosses for MoP. Is there something I'm doing wrong? Should I just flat-out advoid LFR and try to find some people running the raids on normal mode? 'cos after today I'm starting to question why anyone would legit sub month after month for this kind of content!



TL;DR: LFR sucks and keeps putting me into raids with only one tank. No-one knows the tactics. Is this normal 2 years into an exspansion?

you lost any credibility you might've had when you said you went into lfr on a brand new warrior. I bet you didn't even have good gear, you just threw on whatever had the highest ivl and jumped in.

[Firebert]

It was, you just had to have a top-down view. Which you should use in raids anyway, imo.

It was poorly designed; can't expect players to either have top-nick GPUs or have to fuck around with their cameras in order to be successful.

[zaxlor]

The tank part is out of your hands of course, but you're literally part of the problem with all of your actions you described to us.

And you are seemingly completely ignorant of that fact.

Yeh, I could have looked up a guide online. I do read the dungeon journal things though, to get a rough idea of what things to interupt/what stuff not to stand in.

But how is my own "ignorance" stopping the other 20~ DPS in the raid killing puffer fish on the eel boss? I've never been there. I've asked in raid chat what I should be doing. And not a single other person knows either! What can I do to improve this? Before every LFR, go watch a full video on YouTube, condense that down into a macro, spam that in chat and HOPE everyone reads it - That's assuming you can even find two tanks!

Again, I've just left a LFR group without even hitting a single mob. It was the first boss in Circle of Stars. 2 stacks of Determination. One tank offline. It dumps me into this group and since we can't find another tank, the first tank drops group. About half the raid leave. It ends up me and two other people sitting there, so I grabbed a drink and after about 10~ minutes of nothing happened, I left the group too.

HOW IS MY LACK OF KNOWLEDGE GOING TO PREVENT THIS HAPPENING TO ME FIVE TIMES IN ONE NIGHT?


As my opener said, I do not remember LFR ever being this much of a failure. Hell, I'm trying to do a world quest to kill a big Elite Dino and I can't even find a group for that either! The new leveling experience is amazing, but my time spent at 50 while trying to actually play with other people has been an utter nightmare!

[Bloodyleech]

It was poorly designed; can't expect players to either have top-nick GPUs or have to fuck around with their cameras in order to be successful.

The fight was okay'ish - kinda lame/easy, but some people still weren't able to simply change their camera view. Ofc, it's not that hard to use a top-down view. It's better in every part of raiding, it's kinda basic. No one needs a full view of the boss, it's more imporant to see the stuff that's going on around your character.

"fuck around" with the camera.. yeah, holding the right mousebutton is not easy, I guess.

[zaxlor]

you lost any credibility you might've had when you said you went into lfr on a brand new warrior. I bet you didn't even have good gear, you just threw on whatever had the highest ivl and jumped in.

Well, yes... LFR is open to me. I'm rocking an ilevel of 70 (no idea if that's good or bad, but I can que up, so it's gotta be good?) and my HoA got bumped up to level 61 thanks to doing the Magni quests.

If you're saying "Don't play the game until you over-gear it", well... No thanks! If the game doesn't think my gear is up to scratch, then it shouldn't let me que! I did manage to kill G'hun earlier though which was fun. But that boss is what, 18 months old now? Older? I've no problem with learning the tactics. Wiping. Things going slower 'cos people are less geared or skilled. What I do have a problem with, is 24~ other people either not trying or the system designed to group those people together flat out not working.