View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. This poll is closed
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #26081
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post


    Opinions of the EU in most member states have gone up over the last few years, not down, much to the dismay of people wanting things such as a Frexit, including in France.

    Even in the UK, at that.
    Yeah, but Hitler said...you see where this is going. Seriously, stop humouring this guy. He can hide behind the whole, ‘but we voted schtick as much as he wants’, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that voting has become such an act of apathy in the U.K. Confidence in either parties is supremely low as is faith in any Government. For context, even during the Tory victory in December, YouGov polls had Government approval at around 25-30%. The majority of the country hates the direction it’s going in. Folk like him just enjoy the whole ‘yay I owned the libs’ nonsense.
    Last edited by DingDongKing; 2020-10-18 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #26082
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Most experts don't remotely even believe that the government would be willing to enforce a "no deal" Brexit:
    The EU would, that is what matters. The UK is a third country and as such is excluded from the single market by default, per definition of the single market between the EU member states. Whatever the UK "wants" is irrelevant with regards to the single market. They have no entitlement, no right, no say in what type of access they get to the single market beyond WTO rules.
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  3. #26083
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    The EU would, that is what matters. The UK is a third country and as such is excluded from the single market by default, per definition of the single market between the EU member states. Whatever the UK "wants" is irrelevant with regards to the single market. They have no entitlement, no right, no say in what type of access they get to the single market beyond WTO rules.
    Well, the UK could just let the lorries in as they always have. Then they have to wait to get out. And every nation in the WTO would sue for the same type of treatment.
    - Lars

  4. #26084
    The Unstoppable Force Mayhem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Well, the UK could just let the lorries in as they always have. Then they have to wait to get out. And every nation in the WTO would sue for the same type of treatment.
    Criminals all over Europe approve of this idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by ash
    So, look um, I'm not a grief counselor, but if it's any consolation, I have had to kill and bury loved ones before. A bunch of times actually.
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    I never said I was knowledge-able and I wouldn't even care if I was the least knowledge-able person and the biggest dumb-ass out of all 7.8 billion people on the planet.

  5. #26085
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Well, the UK could just let the lorries in as they always have. Then they have to wait to get out. And every nation in the WTO would sue for the same type of treatment.
    Not the EU's problem. If border traffic to the UK doesn't work, they'll sell elsewhere. They have to. No business survives by letting its lorries stand around on the M10 or whatever that parking lot is going to be. All of that? Not our problem. This has been explained for four years.
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  6. #26086
    Over 9000! zealo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    Yeah, but Hitler said...you see where this is going. Seriously, stop humouring this guy. He can hide behind the whole, ‘but we voted schtick as much as he wants’, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that voting has become such an act of apathy in the U.K. Confidence in either parties is supremely low as is faith in any Government. For context, even during the Tory victory in December, YouGov polls had Government approval at around 25-30%. The majority of the country hates the direction it’s going in. Folk like him just enjoy the whole ‘yay I owned the libs’ nonsense.
    Still worth pointing you that just because he can find Euro-sceptic think-tanks in continental Europe, such as this Freiblickinstitut, it doesn't mean the general populations of those countries would support their countries exiting the EU.

    They can find Brexit "inspirational" all they want, but that doesn't mean anything is about to come of it.

  7. #26087
    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Still worth pointing you that just because he can find Euro-sceptic think-tanks in continental Europe, such as this Freiblickinstitut, it doesn't mean the general populations of those countries would support their countries exiting the EU.

    They can find Brexit "inspirational" all they want, but that doesn't mean anything is about to come of it.
    It's not a think tank. It's a private club sponsored by donations and acts as a propaganda machine. Just because it's named institute doesn't mean it's reputable. There are literally no other sources even talking about them. They are insignificant.
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  8. #26088
    This is a given. You can find morons wherever you look.

  9. #26089
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Not the EU's problem. If border traffic to the UK doesn't work, they'll sell elsewhere. They have to. No business survives by letting its lorries stand around on the M10 or whatever that parking lot is going to be. All of that? Not our problem. This has been explained for four years.
    Oh, absolutely, I was just pointing out that technically the UK for their end could choose to ignore it. Only to get hammered in the WTO and ignored by the EU.
    - Lars

  10. #26090
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Oh, absolutely, I was just pointing out that technically the UK for their end could choose to ignore it. Only to get hammered in the WTO and ignored by the EU.
    I understand. The only reason why I made that post is so people are aware that not everything is a think tank, even if it tries to pass as one. And it's almost a certainty that when Dribbles quotes them, they are not credible. Now, he does quote the EU and other credible institutions from time to time, but only when it suits him.
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  11. #26091
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    Quote Originally Posted by zealo View Post
    Still worth pointing you that just because he can find Euro-sceptic think-tanks in continental Europe, such as this Freiblickinstitut, it doesn't mean the general populations of those countries would support their countries exiting the EU.

    They can find Brexit "inspirational" all they want, but that doesn't mean anything is about to come of it.
    Those parties are so small, they are even minor groups among euro-sceptics that's how small they are. There's a large difference between an Euro-sceptic and an Euro-sceptic.

  12. #26092
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Angel of Riots View Post
    Keep in mind that there is no official statement yet that there will be a "No Deal" Brexit or that the talks aren't continuing. Even the markets aren't taking the threat of a "no deal" brexit seriously at the moment.

    A few culprit politicians tried to throw up a smoke-screen earlier this week that there would be a "no deal" or that the talks stopped, but...

    In fact, the talks -are- continuing at the moment. No planned talks with the EU were cancelled, some were just moved to be done 'remotely' or 'virtually' due to Covid.

    Most experts don't remotely even believe that the government would be willing to enforce a "no deal" Brexit:
    - 1. The food logistics of the UK aren't even remotely prepared yet. (In the current state most food would be rotten or expired before it reaches the shelves of the supermarket).
    - 2. Airplanes would be grounded (because they can't pass over EU airspace).
    - 3. Medicine logistics for the UK aren't even remotely prepared yet. (In the current state there would be a severe lack of medical supplies for a long period of time).
    - 4. Export tarriffs would crush the UK economy, the main economy (service) is already suffering majorly because of Covid and is barely kept alive as is, further disruption might end up lethal.
    - 5. GFA isn't being respected. The US doesn't even want to touch the UK atm because of it (including both conservatives and democrats).

    Experts aren't saying that "No Deal" Brexit is impossible, but if it happens, they'd put that solely on the conservatives not being aware of the consequences - and ultimately the Brexiteers in the UK not surviving long into 2020 before their entire idea is seen as the biggest economical mistake in the history of mankind, maybe next to native americans selling their land and gold for trinkets.
    The deal needs to be finalized, translated in who knows how many languages and voted on by all 27 EU members. And if even 1 says no its back to the negotiation table.

    Add in the December holidays and the time to reach a deal is rapidly closing if not practically closed already.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  13. #26093
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The deal needs to be finalized, translated in who knows how many languages and voted on by all 27 EU members. And if even 1 says no its back to the negotiation table.

    Add in the December holidays and the time to reach a deal is rapidly closing if not practically closed already.
    If it's a regular trade deal it only has to go through the EP and the Council, not national parliaments, which is why the EU insists on one general deal. I'm not sure the translation into the 23 languages is necessary beforehand.

  14. #26094
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    If it's a regular trade deal it only has to go through the EP and the Council, not national parliaments, which is why the EU insists on one general deal. I'm not sure the translation into the 23 languages is necessary beforehand.
    It is, because you don't have to speak English or French to sit in the EP. You have the right to get all documents in your native language before voting on them.
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  15. #26095
    Quote Originally Posted by Demolitia View Post
    If it's a regular trade deal it only has to go through the EP and the Council, not national parliaments, which is why the EU insists on one general deal. I'm not sure the translation into the 23 languages is necessary beforehand.
    But then the UK is not getting a 'canada like' deal because that one had to go through national parliaments. Belgium held it up for a while because part of their regional government refused to agree.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #26096
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    But then the UK is not getting a 'canada like' deal because that one had to go through national parliaments. Belgium held it up for a while because part of their regional government refused to agree.
    A Canada style deal isn't even available to Canada though is it, even though they signed it in 2016 the same year as the brexit vote, something to do with Halloumi cheese in Cyprus is holding up EU ratification at the minute, then there will be something else from someone else.

    Pointless even talking to the EU, well done Boris for walking away.
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

  17. #26097
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    But then the UK is not getting a 'canada like' deal because that one had to go through national parliaments. Belgium held it up for a while because part of their regional government refused to agree.
    That's not exactly true. The type of ratification never played a role outside of scheduling constraints.

    What made a deal impossible from the get-go is this:



    There is no deal, because the UK is making outrageous demands that do not exist in any other deal the EU has. And the EU is - rightly - not willing to give the UK yet another incidence where they get exceptional treatment over anyone else on the planet. And it's not just that the UK demands (not requests, demands!) these types of outrageous exceptions, they demand them knowing that those exceptions mean the destruction of the core principles that define the EU, ie. an external border, no borders within Schengen, a single market customs zone that absolutely requires everyone to be on board with the same regulations and being protected by the external border, etc.

    If India wants to sell electronics into the EU, they will comply with EU standards for electronic devices.

    What the UK essentially demands is to be able to ignore EU regulations and then export into the EU market regardless, without border controls. Gets even worse with their financial services, they want to sell their services into the EU, under UK law, and exclude any EU jurisdiction over those deals. Zero protection for EU business or consumers is what the UK demands.

    And make no mistake, this has never been and is not about fishing. That's the only hook simple folks like Dribs understand so they pick it up and use it as their main argument. It's really insignificant and nobody gives a shit about it. Rest assured, Macron's interest in that is very limited, too. People like Dribs keep thinking it's France vs. Germany on that. It's really not, France has a big auto industry selling into the UK as well.

    The problem is: GFA, Gibraltar (which really doesn't get spoken about enough) and maybe the question... if you can't solve a relatively small scale and simple problem like fishing, how do you even intend to handle the big issues like auto industry? Financial services?

    Wherever you look, there are problems. And no deal is the only logical outcome. Has been for four years, will not change in the remaining 2 months. Dribs wins, UK burns. End of the game, gg thanks for playing. And every decent human being should be disgusted by him and his likes. And of course by the fact that sites like MMO-C happily provide a platform for these types of people. They are not bound by free speech, yet sites like MMO-C support destructive forces actively. Heck, Twitter and Facebook basically live off cats and these people... should all be shut down, to be honest. There is no value gained for humanity by their existance.
    Last edited by Slant; 2020-10-19 at 03:11 AM.
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  18. #26098
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    That's not exactly true. The type of ratification never played a role outside of scheduling constraints.

    What made a deal impossible from the get-go is this:

    <snip>

    There is no deal, because the UK is making outrageous demands that do not exist in any other deal the EU has. And the EU is - rightly - not willing to give the UK yet another incidence where they get exceptional treatment over anyone else on the planet. And it's not just that the UK demands (not requests, demands!) these types of outrageous exceptions, they demand them knowing that those exceptions mean the destruction of the core principles that define the EU, ie. an external border, no borders within Schengen, a single market customs zone that absolutely requires everyone to be on board with the same regulations and being protected by the external border, etc.

    If India wants to sell electronics into the EU, they will comply with EU standards for electronic devices.

    What the UK essentially demands is to be able to ignore EU regulations and then export into the EU market regardless, without border controls. Gets even worse with their financial services, they want to sell their services into the EU, under UK law, and exclude any EU jurisdiction over those deals. Zero protection for EU business or consumers is what the UK demands.

    And make no mistake, this has never been and is not about fishing. That's the only hook simple folks like Dribs understand so they pick it up and use it as their main argument. It's really insignificant and nobody gives a shit about it. Rest assured, Macron's interest in that is very limited, too. People like Dribs keep thinking it's France vs. Germany on that. It's really not, France has a big auto industry selling into the UK as well.

    The problem is: GFA, Gibraltar (which really doesn't get spoken about enough) and maybe the question... if you can't solve a relatively small scale and simple problem like fishing, how do you even intend to handle the big issues like auto industry? Financial services?

    Wherever you look, there are problems. And no deal is the only logical outcome. Has been for four years, will not change in the remaining 2 months. Dribs wins, UK burns. End of the game, gg thanks for playing. And every decent human being should be disgusted by him and his likes. And of course by the fact that sites like MMO-C happily provide a platform for these types of people. They are not bound by free speech, yet sites like MMO-C support destructive forces actively. Heck, Twitter and Facebook basically live off cats and these people... should all be shut down, to be honest. There is no value gained for humanity by their existance.
    The other issue with the Canada-style deal is the fact the UK is not Canada. A country with a much larger population and similar industries sitting right on the EU's doorstep can not be given the same concessions without being a lot more disruptive to EU economies.

    - - - Updated - - -

    BTW, did people miss this threads 3rd anniversary last week? When you made this thread did you think we'd still have nothing sorted after all this time, @Slant?

  19. #26099
    Quote Originally Posted by Dhrizzle View Post
    BTW, did people miss this threads 3rd anniversary last week? When you made this thread did you think we'd still have nothing sorted after all this time, @Slant?
    I am not surprised, let's put it that way...
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  20. #26100
    The Lightbringer dribbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    I am not surprised, let's put it that way...
    With the EU's track record on trade negotiations that's very understandable, magnanimous of you to admit their failings so publicly...

    And if this forum had existed 60 years ago and a topic started then, the Americans would be now discussing how trade talks today with the EU were STILL at a standstill after all that time :P

    Something for the Canadians and CETA to think about.

    And after just 3 years the UK/EU have nothing to complain about, this baby has only just begun...
    13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"

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