[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Omega10]

That's not exactly true. The type of ratification never played a role outside of scheduling constraints.

What made a deal impossible from the get-go is this:



There is no deal, because the UK is making outrageous demands that do not exist in any other deal the EU has. And the EU is - rightly - not willing to give the UK yet another incidence where they get exceptional treatment over anyone else on the planet. And it's not just that the UK demands (not requests, demands!) these types of outrageous exceptions, they demand them knowing that those exceptions mean the destruction of the core principles that define the EU, ie. an external border, no borders within Schengen, a single market customs zone that absolutely requires everyone to be on board with the same regulations and being protected by the external border, etc.

If India wants to sell electronics into the EU, they will comply with EU standards for electronic devices.

What the UK essentially demands is to be able to ignore EU regulations and then export into the EU market regardless, without border controls. Gets even worse with their financial services, they want to sell their services into the EU, under UK law, and exclude any EU jurisdiction over those deals. Zero protection for EU business or consumers is what the UK demands.

And make no mistake, this has never been and is not about fishing. That's the only hook simple folks like Dribs understand so they pick it up and use it as their main argument. It's really insignificant and nobody gives a shit about it. Rest assured, Macron's interest in that is very limited, too. People like Dribs keep thinking it's France vs. Germany on that. It's really not, France has a big auto industry selling into the UK as well.

The problem is: GFA, Gibraltar (which really doesn't get spoken about enough) and maybe the question... if you can't solve a relatively small scale and simple problem like fishing, how do you even intend to handle the big issues like auto industry? Financial services?

Wherever you look, there are problems. And no deal is the only logical outcome. Has been for four years, will not change in the remaining 2 months. Dribs wins, UK burns. End of the game, gg thanks for playing. And every decent human being should be disgusted by him and his likes. And of course by the fact that sites like MMO-C happily provide a platform for these types of people. They are not bound by free speech, yet sites like MMO-C support destructive forces actively. Heck, Twitter and Facebook basically live off cats and these people... should all be shut down, to be honest. There is no value gained for humanity by their existance.

Thank for you your clear and concise description of what is going on in the trade talks between the UK and EU. We don't get this kind of information from the US media.

[Slant]

Thank for you your clear and concise description of what is going on in the trade talks between the UK and EU. We don't get this kind of information from the US media.

No problem, if just one person learns something new by not listening to people like Dribbles, we're already at a better place. Stay curious, don't be satisfied with a lack of information. This thread has taught us all a lot, if you have questions, feel free to ask, there are dozens of people happy to answer.

[Huehuecoyotl]

With the EU's track record on trade negotiations that's very understandable, magnanimous of you to admit their failings so publicly...

And if this forum had existed 60 years ago and a topic started then, the Americans would be now discussing how trade talks today with the EU were STILL at a standstill after all that time :P

Something for the Canadians and CETA to think about.

And after just 3 years the UK/EU have nothing to complain about, this baby has only just begun...

You know why the US/EU deal hasn't gone anywhere? Because the US keep making unreasonable demands without realising that the EU is big enough and powerful enough to tell them to shove it and come back with something more reasonable.

And that's the US. Which has a MUCH stronger hand in negotiations than we do. Your dream that we'd be able to dictate terms to the EU was hilariously stupid to start with. They'll come back to the table to keep negotiating, to make it painfully clear to everyone that they aren't walking away from the process, but they aren't going to shift their core principles. Which leaves us either having to back down and look stupid, or walk away and....err....look stupid.

Brexit was a dumb idea from the beginning. It hasn't got any smarter as the years have gone by.

[Slant]

And after just 3 years the UK/EU have nothing to complain about, this baby has only just begun...

It hasn't begun. It's ending. Your whole source for entertainment is going to be confined to the UK soon. The EU is going through the motions, because the UK deserves that bit of loyalty, but come January 1st, you will be quite surprised at how sudden the absolute drop of interest in the UK is going to hit you. We'll talk if the UK wants to talk, but you'll be in the same position as Turkey has been for the past two decades. The EU can happily negotiate for 30 years, if you keep being silly for 30 years, you won't get any signature for 30 years. That's how it goes.

It's up to you, really. But since your personal primary goal is to see as many people suffer in the UK as possible, I guess you made your choice already...

[dribbles]

Nope not good enough eurochums, nice gesture but bend that knee some more...

Constructive discussion with @MichelBarnier today. Noted his proposal to intensify work, as we have been asking. But the EU still needs to make a fundamental change in approach to the talks and make clear it has done so. We will stay in close touch.

https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/sta...33408947048449

How embarrassing for the supposedly great EU reduced to this humiliation. Even I am beginning to feel sorry for the EU and wish the UK would play nicer...

[Fuiking]

Nope not good enough eurochums, nice gesture but bend that knee some more...

Constructive discussion with @MichelBarnier today. Noted his proposal to intensify work, as we have been asking. But the EU still needs to make a fundamental change in approach to the talks and make clear it has done so. We will stay in close touch.

https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/sta...33408947048449

How embarrassing for the supposedly great EU reduced to this humiliation. Even I am beginning to feel sorry for the EU and wish the UK would play nicer...

Its says nothing Dribs. And it comes from a British guy who basically demands. again.

[dribbles]

Its says nothing Dribs. And it comes from a British guy who basically demands. again.

You think? Lord Frost of Allenton is the UK advisor not any old British guy. Here is a quite reasonable interpretation of what's going on...

Michel Barnier tonight scrambled to salvage Brexit trade talks after the UK warned it is serious about walking away unless the EU shows more flexibility.The bloc's negotiator appeared to make significant concessions by saying he is ready for 'intensified talks' - and crucially that they can start thrashing out legal texts in the most difficult areas. The message came after Boris Johnson told Mr Barnier not to bother coming to London for discussions this week unless he was willing to give ground.

However, Downing Street insisted this evening that the move did not go far enough, and the PM would still not allow formal negotiations to resume

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ive-talks.html

And looking at Barnier's twitter feed today my fav comment from someone obviously in the EU goes along the lines of "Why are you allowing the UK to lead the EU on a merry dance as though we are a lame donkey?" I couldn't have said it better, as that is whats going on. You see it differently?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

With the EU's track record on trade negotiations that's very understandable, magnanimous of you to admit their failings so publicly...

And if this forum had existed 60 years ago and a topic started then, the Americans would be now discussing how trade talks today with the EU were STILL at a standstill after all that time :P

Something for the Canadians and CETA to think about.

And after just 3 years the UK/EU have nothing to complain about, this baby has only just begun...

The EU and USA have not been negotiating a trade agreement for 60 years. You are misinformed. Or lying. One of the two.

[Slant]

Nope not good enough eurochums, nice gesture but bend that knee some more...

Constructive discussion with @MichelBarnier today. Noted his proposal to intensify work, as we have been asking. But the EU still needs to make a fundamental change in approach to the talks and make clear it has done so. We will stay in close touch.

https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/sta...33408947048449

How embarrassing for the supposedly great EU reduced to this humiliation. Even I am beginning to feel sorry for the EU and wish the UK would play nicer...

Not sure what's embarassing about Frost making a tweet with demands. It's certainly not embarassing the EU. I mean, technically there is the concept of being embarassed on someone else's behalf... I guess this might be such a case where someone makes such a fool of himself that it's hard to watch as an outsider. But aside from that, I have to tell you that I'm quite indifferent to whatever Frost has to say. Same old, same old... nothing new, not very interesting.

Feel sorry for the EU if you like, fact is: It's just a tweet. And you're getting REALLY desperate to spin this into some sort of success story. Tomorrow's news in Drib's world: "BoJo took yet another successful dump! How embarassing for the EU, BoJo still knows how to sit on the shitter! That's a sign that the EU is crumbling!"

[Huehuecoyotl]

The EU and USA have not been negotiating a trade agreement for 60 years. You are misinformed. Or lying. One of the two.

I can't seen any reason why he can't be both. And I have evidence to support my position.

[Noradin]

Part of me is very puzzled and genuinely curious what his motivation is.

He's in love with you and wants your attention...

[Slant]

He's in love with you and wants your attention...

Nah, it's not me. I'm just at times bored enough to engage with him. I'll never get that curiousity satisfied, so it's just idle thoughts at this point. But it would be funny to get the full picture of his motivations at some point. I'm still going for the long troll, to be honest.

[Inuyaki]

Frost is talking about

https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/st...98557590081537

I just spoke to @DavidGHFrost.

As stated by President @vonderleyen on Friday, I confirmed that the EU remains available to intensify talks in London this week, on all subjects, and based on legal texts.

We now wait for the UK’s reaction.

The usual dribbles' delusions, nothing to see here.

[Slant]

The usual dribbles' delusions, nothing to see here.

Well, one aspect is interesting. Barnier said the EU was waiting for the UK's reaction. We have seen that reaction, it is a demand for the EU to cave. This might actually be the overture to the goodbyes. The EU can't budge, the UK won't talk until the EU budges, this is pretty much it. I wonder how it must feel like as a remainer in the UK, do they actually still hope for some... well, not totally fucked up outcome? Some sort of not-quite-as-bad-as-it-could-be?

[Xarkan]

Not sure what's embarassing about Frost making a tweet with demands. It's certainly not embarassing the EU. I mean, technically there is the concept of being embarassed on someone else's behalf... I guess this might be such a case where someone makes such a fool of himself that it's hard to watch as an outsider. But aside from that, I have to tell you that I'm quite indifferent to whatever Frost has to say. Same old, same old... nothing new, not very interesting.

Feel sorry for the EU if you like, fact is: It's just a tweet. And you're getting REALLY desperate to spin this into some sort of success story. Tomorrow's news in Drib's world: "BoJo took yet another successful dump! How embarassing for the EU, BoJo still knows how to sit on the shitter! That's a sign that the EU is crumbling!"

Actually it is embarrassing.. that the EU will bother continuing discussions at this point. There will be no deal unless we break the union, there is no value to continuing (other than not appearing to be the one that left but that value does not justify the expense at this point)

[AeneasBK]

You think? Lord Frost of Allenton is the UK advisor not any old British guy.

He's one of Boris' old uni pals. He did some work as a diplomat, but essentially his credentials are "old-school chum", let's not piss about here.

[draykorinee]

Thank for you your clear and concise description of what is going on in the trade talks between the UK and EU. We don't get this kind of information from the US media.

Slant put it very succinctly. Us Brits are demanding things that are counter to how the EU works, WE are the problem, not the EU. Always ignore Dribbles.

[Noradin]

Actually it is embarrassing.. that the EU will bother continuing discussions at this point. There will be no deal unless we break the union, there is no value to continuing (other than not appearing to be the one that left but that value does not justify the expense at this point)

The EU signed a treaty promising to negotiate, so that's what we will do.

[Crispin]

With the EU's track record on trade negotiations that's very understandable, magnanimous of you to admit their failings so publicly...

And if this forum had existed 60 years ago and a topic started then, the Americans would be now discussing how trade talks today with the EU were STILL at a standstill after all that time :P

Something for the Canadians and CETA to think about.

And after just 3 years the UK/EU have nothing to complain about, this baby has only just begun...

Believe it or not, but negotiations often end with no result. Compromises are not always achievable, as we're seeing with Brexit.

Of course you can throw on the childish act, of trying to point fingers at someone and laugh. In the end it just confirms your ignorance.

[Twdft]

Actually it is embarrassing.. that the EU will bother continuing discussions at this point. There will be no deal unless we break the union, there is no value to continuing (other than not appearing to be the one that left but that value does not justify the expense at this point)

If you come right down to it there wasn't really any point in discussions from the beginning, the UK never adressed the paradox of wanting all 3 of leaving, GFA and unity of the Kingdom. Can only have 2 of those at the same time.

UK never thought about if it's actually possible to leave after you connected that much. If you put rum in your last glass of cola you can't get it out either when your son wants the cola.