Slice and Dice back seems like 3 steps backward

[ymirsson]

virtually everything I play among all of the classes seems to be taking a step backwards with pre-patch. it seems like "iconic abilities returning" was code for reverting specs to pre-bfa playstyles.

What else could it have possibly meant?

[Rathwirt]

Well as noted earlier in the thread, slice and dice isn't in the patch notes, but confirmed today it is in the game. -yawn-

[Moggers1990]

Not really a fan of having it back, but at least there are a couple abilities/talents that have some sort of interaction with it.

What interacts with it?

It's literally just some more Auto Attack damage and Deadly Poison damage which is barely noticeable unless you're looking at Details and getting depressed because 50% of your damage is now done completely passively by right clicking the target.

[Gestopft]

What interacts with it?

It's literally just some more Auto Attack damage and Deadly Poison damage

Sub talent; Premeditation I think, which grants ten seconds out of stealth, or more CPs out of stealth if it's already up.

RtB buff Grand Melee; extends it per combo point spent iirc

Maybe "interacts with" isn't quite the right word. But more mechanically interesting than last time we had it. Again, not that I'm a fan.

which is barely noticeable unless you're looking at Details and getting depressed because 50% of your damage is now done completely passively by right clicking the target.

This is a little bit misleading though, because how well you manage your Envenom shows up in "passive" damage.

[zorkuus]

People wanted stupid stuff back for the sake of nostalgia. They got it. Just be glad this isn't as useless as say... corruption for warlocks.

[keldarepewpew]

Its unnecessary is what it is.

White damage outside of vanilla is not as important. It's boring, it adds no fun to the rotation, its a button to press when the addon tells you to. Dull.

- - - Updated - - -



People are complaining (rightly so) because it's pointless. SnD does not make a Rogue player bad or good. It's one boring, buff to track that gives nothing tangible. Great in Vanilla when white damage meant something, less so now.

Make it a haste increase, thats more palatable, attack speed? Boring. Anyone that says otherwise is a ****. (if i say that word I'll get banned, again. And I can't say why because the **** are ******* ******)

People are complaining (wrongly so) because it adds dept in pvp to an otherwise shallow easy to play class. (Rogue main btw).

[genaian]

Sub talent; Premeditation I think, which grants ten seconds out of stealth, or more CPs out of stealth if it's already up.

RtB buff Grand Melee; extends it per combo point spent iirc

Maybe "interacts with" isn't quite the right word. But more mechanically interesting than last time we had it. Again, not that I'm a fan.

That would be fine if they added it only to those specs. I play assassination and i played rogue since vanilla beta, and i cant stand SnD. But then again, i dont suffer from nostalgia and only care about gameplay and want numbers to just be competitive, but not at cost of gameplay... other way around is way more acceptable.

This right now means im probably locked out of playing assassination this whole expansion. BfA assassination was very fun to play(granted, azerite powers had something to do with it), no idea why they wanted to make it worse, and only payoff for that addition of plain maintenance buff is that you deal less active damage and more passive damage. Lose-lose for assassination. Purely negative change. Adding even more maintenance and converting active damage into passive damage on top of it. Just insane.

If they added SnD, reduced its attack speed bonus for assassination instead of increasing it and added some energy regen to it, or some new mechanic to get energy to actually help gameplay instead of hurt it, then fine... but as it is, its just terrible and assassination gameplay in SL is pure trash because of it.

At least last time we had cut to the chase, so didnt have to worry much about it. Not to mention that now assassination is doing by far most passive/autoattack damage of all 3 specs, like 40% of total damage. Totally fits the flavor of the spec too.

Blizzard went full ridiculous this expansion. Because some people liked classic, they decided to bring back old crap that should have stayed in the past and screw those of us that prefer retail. Yet another example of how stupid are those that make decisions at blizzard.
Same as how when there are talents that result in very different playstyles, they see that 80% pick one talent (because it provides more dps) and then make it baseline because, well, 80% obviously show majority prefer that one, right? So now those 20% that opted out of it even when it cost them dps are left with no choice but to have that playstyle they hate or not play the spec anymore. Because you lose much less dps by picking one talent over the other, because both are dps increases over baseline, just one is less than the other, but when its baseline... you lose a lot and there is nothing to make up for any dps lost. But for blizzard, thats good change... when in fact its tragedy. Doesnt help the 80% at all, they still play the same, but screws the rest for no reason.
And same is with SnD returning... going for those few that suffer from nostalgia and think vanilla is great or something as silly as that and screws all the rest that dont... for no reason. Add it as talent, so those loving it so much can go for it... let the rest of us actually have fun.

[Jackstraw]

the rest of us

Let me just tackle this, and I'll preface by saying I'm sorry, it's not you, it's the legions that came before you.

Each change done for "the rest of us", be it the removal of Heroic Strike, of Tigereye Brew, of Soothe, of Arcane Shot dispel, the adding of kicks to basically everyone, the constant erosion of synergies between different classes, did nothing but overwhelming amounts of damage to the game, leading it to the point where it is now.

I'm really disappointed in seeing so much shortsight in a situation where players, left with such a barebone state of the game, should at least band together in recognizing the good.

Rallying against Slice and Dice does mighty -nothing- for the state of the game. Where was this passionate accuse when corruptions moved power from the player to a completely external force?
Nowhere to be seen.

And yeah, spamming Envenom is fun. Know what else is fun? Managing uptimes. Assassination always managed its uptimes, its Slice and Dice being the core part of what Assassination sought to do: creating those massive Find Weakness windows.

Retail is beyond saving, you notice it when Mutilate does as much as a sneeze towards an already open window. Want to have fun? Find a private or host one and go wild. For everyone else, it's you who's damaging their fun.

[Twdft]

Not really a fan of having it back, but at least there are a couple abilities/talents that have some sort of interaction with it.

Not assassination though. If you keep your bleeds up you get energy and actually notice different gameplay. Without a damage meter assa will not see any gameplay difference with snd, at all.

[willtron]

People are complaining (wrongly so) because it adds dept in pvp to an otherwise shallow easy to play class. (Rogue main btw).

Thinking Slice and Dice is depth tells me everything I need to know about you.

[keldarepewpew]

Thinking Slice and Dice is depth tells me everything I need to know about you.

What is my favorite bug and vegetable of choice?

[-olaz-]

I am having a hard time understanding blizzards thought process here for assassination.
I did not play the Shadowlands Beta, so anyone here who did?
Are there any skills in the Shadowlands endgame, like these conduits that interact with SnD?
Why is SnD not in the patch notes?
Seems like they are still not sure what to do.

I remember the old ways of rotation for assassination rogues and there were times when it was horrible.
We all suffered through those.
I do not want them back.

[GreenJesus]

virtually everything I play among all of the classes seems to be taking a step backwards with pre-patch. it seems like "iconic abilities returning" was code for reverting specs to pre-bfa playstyles.

This comment almost made me want to just call in sick for the rest of the afternoon and go play the game. If classes are reverting to pre-bfa then count me in.

[Biomega]

This comment almost made me want to just call in sick for the rest of the afternoon and go play the game. If classes are reverting to pre-bfa then count me in.

If only.

It's kinda weird right now. A lot of stuff is missing, especially rank 2 abilities that change something crucial. But overall I am not sure I like where all this is going, and it definitely doesn't feel like the "good ol' days" (whenever those were supposed to have been).

[Naiattavain]

sub honestly feels the same as last expansion. um i don't think the spec works like its supposed to. i know this is intentional but damn is it annoying to get some service for the spec. we need the performance of wods subtlety back for the spec to feel ok other wise there is no reason to play the game anymore.

[oplawlz]

virtually everything I play among all of the classes seems to be taking a step backwards with pre-patch. it seems like "iconic abilities returning" was code for reverting specs to pre-bfa playstyles.

That's not a bad thing, inherently. Much of the "progress" made for the classes has been terrible, and poor class mechanics were one of the near universal complaints for BfA.

[StillMcfuu]

They need to remove snd from assassination...

10% regen... thats all it does

[Evolixe]

Thinking Slice and Dice is depth tells me everything I need to know about you.

How is it not depth?

Like you otherwise have a lot to do? It gives you something to maintain, something to think about in the midst of everything else going on.
I think that pretty much defines depth. How is it any different from rupture? You also just maintain that for the heck of it.
At least this one doesn't tax you so badly upon swapping to another target.

It's okay that you don't like it, but at least let it be for the right reasons. Even if you can't really explain it beyond just a feeling.

[Saltysquidoon]

As an old school player I welcome the change. SnD is a part of what has defined the Rogue from vanilla to legion. It being taken away just didn't feel right.

So as an old-school player you would know that Muti hasn't maintained SnD since cata was released, we also call that the majority of the game's history.

How is it not depth?

Like you otherwise have a lot to do? It gives you something to maintain, something to think about in the midst of everything else going on.
I think that pretty much defines depth. How is it any different from rupture? You also just maintain that for the heck of it.

Rupture actually interacts with the rest of your kit (to varying degrees based on talents and leggos) as muti, because blizzard lazily sloshed it back into the kit without actually working it in, it's just a button you have to press for the sake of a button existing. It's not the end of the world but it's by no means good spec design.

So no, it neither really adds depth since it doesn't interact with the kit at all and it's not the same as rupture.

EDIT: By way of example contrast it to outlaw's implementation. It's not just forcing itself in, it's taking the place of RtB and one of the buffs from RtB interacts with SnD so it's something you're incentivised to play around.

[Evolixe]

So as an old-school player you would know that Muti hasn't maintained SnD since cata was released, we also call that the majority of the game's history.

And? I fail to see the relevance of this statement

Rupture actually interacts with the rest of your kit (to varying degrees based on talents and leggos) as muti, because blizzard lazily sloshed it back into the kit without actually working it in, it's just a button you have to press for the sake of a button existing.

What do you mean? It increases your poison procs and it enhances your energy regen, allowing you to do more stuff.
It is literally the same thing as Rupture in every way. And how well you can maintain the both of them will make a significant difference down the line.

I honestly feel like a lot of you are just complaining because you will have to work slightly harder