McConnell the Father of Poverty; US Poor Grows by 6 Million

[Krakan]

Uhm... Not sure you're aware, but prison population, in the US, has increased massively over the last 3 decades. And it hasn't exactly had brilliant implications on the poor neighborhoods.

True but at the end of the day what is a realistic solution to this? Somehow holding the rich hostage? Subsidize unskilled labor till it utterly collapses?

I only ever hear pie in the sky solutions.

[unfilteredJW]

True but at the end of the day what is a realistic solution to this? Somehow holding the rich hostage? Subsidize unskilled labor till it utterly collapses?

I only ever hear pie in the sky solutions.

You only hear what pads your world view.

Don’t pretend you have any interest in fixing these problems after you solution was to “get rid of the undesirables”.

[Howel]

True but at the end of the day what is a realistic solution to this? Somehow holding the rich hostage? Subsidize unskilled labor till it utterly collapses?

I only ever hear pie in the sky solutions.

Yeah holding them hostage sounds like a good idea, actually; hold them hostage until they open their purse. Brilliant and simplistic, non-in the sky solution.

You seem rather keen on the idea of jailing people, so I'd think that's an idea you can get behind.

[JohnBrown1917]

True but at the end of the day what is a realistic solution to this? Somehow holding the rich hostage? Subsidize unskilled labor till it utterly collapses?

I only ever hear pie in the sky solutions.

You make it sound like nationalizing business is a hard thing to do.

[Howel]

You make it sound like nationalizing business is a hard thing to do.

Historically that doesn't have the best of track records; nor does it necessarily solve the problem, those institutions can end up equally corrupt.

[TigTone]

Historically that doesn't have the best of track records; nor does it necessarily solve the problem, those institutions can end up equally corrupt.

Imo making sure elected officials are not greedy or on the spectrum of antisocial disorder is a good start.

A lot of the world problems is because terrible and very selfish people are in charge of governments.

[Howel]

Imo making sure elected officials are not greedy or on the spectrum of antisocial disorder is a good start.

A lot of the world problems is because terrible and very selfish people are in charge of governments.

Yeah, only problem that poses, is that you need competent and not greedy people. That is where it gets a little more complicated. Not impossible, nor improbable, but it should always be on ones mind that such challenges exists in such ventures.

[Krakan]

You make it sound like nationalizing business is a hard thing to do.

It can be. I think it is far easier to have it nationalized to begin with then trying to return it once it's not. Still its possible.

[Acidbaron]

You make it sound like nationalizing business is a hard thing to do.

Every time to government ends up getting that involved in the economy it goes wrong, the government is a bad producer that's what history has taught us.
Their involvement should only be to regulate and stimulate the economic engine nothing more. So they can take over easily but won't ever be successful due to its restrictions, even in China they got this and let the market and businesses do their thing while only creating a frame work to support their industries.


As for the thread in question, rather obvious one has an actual policy and plan the other is merely ideological nonsense with no viable long term plan much like communism, i guess that's why republicans like the USSR? I mean all they really are about is deregulating and self enrichment there's no sustainable long term plan, that and socialism republicans love government subsidies into industries with no future and purely for electoral motivations.

[TigTone]

Yeah, only problem that poses, is that you need competent and not greedy people. That is where it gets a little more complicated. Not impossible, nor improbable, but it should always be on ones mind that such challenges exists in such ventures.

Yea, the only viable solution I can think of is making sure every citizen is well educated.

I rather not go into great detail on how to achieve that; but with educated citizens it makes it very hard for the corrupt to convince people to vote for them.

Because for the most part the well educated will scrutinize the hell out of a person before voting for them.

[JohnBrown1917]

It can be. I think it is far easier to have it nationalized to begin with then trying to return it once it's not. Still its possible.

It does not need be returned to a privitized state.

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Every time to government ends up getting that involved in the economy it goes wrong, the government is a bad producer that's what history has taught us.
Their involvement should only be to regulate and stimulate the economic engine nothing more. So they can take over easily but won't ever be successful due to its restrictions, even in China they got this and let the market and businesses do their thing while only creating a frame work to support their industries.


As for the thread in question, rather obvious one has an actual policy and plan the other is merely ideological nonsense with no viable long term plan much like communism, i guess that's why republicans like the USSR? I mean all they really are about is deregulating and self enrichment there's no sustainable long term plan, that and socialism republicans love government subsidies into industries with no future and purely for electoral motivations.

And lo and behold, China also has increasing wealth gaps and terrible working conditions. That it will be less profitable is really something I could give less of a fuck about it, its about making sure nobody is earning billions.


The lower classes don't benefit from them getting rich at all, the trickle down theory does not work.

[Acidbaron]

And lo and behold, China also has increasing wealth gaps and terrible working conditions. That it will be less profitable is really something I could give less of a fuck about it, its about making sure nobody is earning billions.


The lower classes don't benefit from them getting rich at all, the trickle down theory does not work.

Not what i was talking about so *shrugs*

[Monster Hunter]

It is but I don't know if it is something that can be practically accomplished. How do you trap the rich into paying for everything when they are the most moblie of any class and can simply leave?

Why do you even need to trap the rich? America has more than enough money to fix 99% of its social issues and provide European level social security and socialised medicine and still have spare change left over.

Yea the rich in America have it easy especially tax wise but its not because america needs there money that Americans don't enjoy the same average quality of life Europeans do and services from the state.

Its something that gets totaly ignored in these left v right wing spats, and they tend to devolve into how to get money or if you should get money from the billionairs..... but america as a country already has enough money and then some to do what ever it wants. It spent over its national debt just in bailouts from the 2009 crisis.

[Krakan]

It does not need be returned to a privitized state.

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And lo and behold, China also has increasing wealth gaps and terrible working conditions. That it will be less profitable is really something I could give less of a fuck about it, its about making sure nobody is earning billions.


The lower classes don't benefit from them getting rich at all, the trickle down theory does not work.

I meant returned to nationalized... though on the trickle down theory it is an extremely accurate and potent system but it relies on a stable population.

The theory only works in highly closed off systems.

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Why do you even need to trap the rich? America has more than enough money to fix 99% of its social issues and provide European level social security and socialised medicine and still have spare change left over.

Yea the rich in America have it easy especially tax wise but its not because america needs there money that Americans don't enjoy the same average quality of life Europeans do and services from the state.

Its something that gets totaly ignored in these left v right wing spats, and they tend to devolve into how to get money or if you should get money from the billionairs..... but america as a country already has enough money and then some to do what ever it wants. It spent over its national debt just in bailouts from the 2009 crisis.

A good question and one I honestly don't know enough to comment on beyond speculation... I think that exaggerates just how much wealth America produces but like I said it's not an in depth examination of it.

[Edge-]

I meant returned to nationalized... though on the trickle down theory it is an extremely accurate and potent system but it relies on a stable population.

The theory only works in highly closed off systems.

Which don't, and never will, exist. Even in a closed system it assumes and requires constant reinvestment and spending and falls apart once rich folk start hoarding money.

Trickle down has literally never, ever worked. Every Republican attempt, the most recent in Kansas - https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-...-side-tax-cuts

Who tried the, "If we give businesses and rich folks more money the economy will go great!"

And the Republican legislature then had to override the governors veto to raise taxes again, as the states economy tanked and they ran out of budget cut options after gutting education and other services.

It's not accurate because it exists only in theory.

[Felya]

It would be a step in the right direction. Removing the most negative and destructive elements from any community aids it.

You are going to put foot and shelter behind bars? Why do criminals deserve it, but the poor do not?

[Krakan]

Which don't, and never will, exist. Even in a closed system it assumes and requires constant reinvestment and spending and falls apart once rich folk start hoarding money.

Trickle down has literally never, ever worked. Every Republican attempt, the most recent in Kansas - https://www.cbpp.org/research/state-...-side-tax-cuts

Who tried the, "If we give businesses and rich folks more money the economy will go great!"

And the Republican legislature then had to override the governors veto to raise taxes again, as the states economy tanked and they ran out of budget cut options after gutting education and other services.

It's not accurate because it exists only in theory.

It isn't a theory of cooperation but competition and conflict... it relies on people being able to sell their labor at competitive prices and that only works in a closed system. The second you can swell the lowest rungs of the ladder it doesn't work.

[Edge-]

It isn't a theory of cooperation but competition and conflict... it relies on people being able to sell their labor at competitive prices and that only works in a closed system. The second you can swell the lowest rungs of the ladder it doesn't work.

No, that's not where it falls apart. See the Kansas link and you can look into more studies on the topic.

It's not a fault of excess labor, but one that falls apart because it requires a closed system of constant spending and investment which simply does not, and will never, exist. This is basic economic theory shit that even I covered off in my old Poli-Sci days in college long ago.

[Felya]

It isn't a theory of cooperation but competition and conflict... it relies on people being able to sell their labor at competitive prices and that only works in a closed system. The second you can swell the lowest rungs of the ladder it doesn't work.

Yes, if you remove Nintendo and Sony, Microsoft would have the #1 console...

[Howel]

It isn't a theory of cooperation but competition and conflict... it relies on people being able to sell their labor at competitive prices and that only works in a closed system. The second you can swell the lowest rungs of the ladder it doesn't work.

Prior to Covid the unemployment rate was sub 5 %, which is not a large enough excess of labour for the theory of competitive wage negotiation capacity to hold. It needs to be double digits before you see marginal effects from it, and do note it is marginal, only once you have excess closer to 1/4 of the population does its effects have observable effects.