Page 9 of 32 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
19
... LastLast
  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Oh it wasnt just one person, it was multiple people in multiple threads claiming it was ILLEGAL to delay SL now that they had announced the release date. It amazes me how short peoples memories are, but it absolutely 100% was a thing.

    For some perspective - there are countless people also claiming the 6month sub + "free" item is done every 6 months, even though the last one was only like 3 months ago.

    Honestly, go back and have a look at a few of the threads discussing SL launch possibly being in 2021 and it was mocked and laughed at by most. Im not saying it WILL be 2021 for sure, all im saying is the delay is a MASSIVE setback, that clearly shows Blizzard are extremely unhappy with the product. Recently, Blizzard have shown to be quite happy to release a broken ass wow patch/expansion rather than delay, so it makes me wonder just how bad it is.

    Each persons perspective of how "broken" it is could be just a tiny slice of the pie.

    Not to mention balancing issues with the gap being close to 40% between top and bottom. On some specific fights, its as much as 70% gap. Same skilled players, same ilvl, same fight experience. I do try to avoid the balancing rabbit hole for a few reasons - firstly, they are "working on it", so im happy to wait for the 'final product'. Secondly, its pre-patch, so who really cares if balance is bad, so long as it is fixed by launch.

    However, it does bring up some major concerns for me regarding the bold on systems in SL - the way i see it, they will not be undertaking any major reworks of any classes now, so its pretty much what you see is what you get. What i fear they will do is try to use the bolt on systems to compensate for weaker specs, and given how the systems work in SL - i just see that being an absolute clusterfuck.
    There is some actual truth behind it assuming they were talking about a delay into next year. There are laws that vary by country that require you to stick to a end of year statement like they had when it comes to something pre-purchased.

    Although I *think* they can just offer refunds instead of running into the law, which they have offered already.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Beta had improved greatly since the delay. They seem to be mostly in tuning mode now.
    Not really, besides some bug fixes and levelling experience, they are still making significant changes to class and covenant abilities, they are still making significant changes to soulbinds and conduits, some covenant spells haven't been touched or operate so badly that no reasonable player would ever choose it. Some specs are still playing like absolute dogshit and The Maw is still a dead zone
    Last edited by Th3Scourge; 2020-10-22 at 03:12 AM.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    There is some actual truth behind it assuming they were talking about a delay into next year. There are laws that vary by country that require you to stick to a end of year statement like they had when it comes to something pre-purchased.

    Although I *think* they can just offer refunds instead of running into the law, which they have offered already.
    Worst that can happen is they have to offer refunds, no matter the country. There wouldn't be legal proceedings for delaying a game.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    There is some actual truth behind it assuming they were talking about a delay into next year. There are laws that vary by country that require you to stick to a end of year statement like they had when it comes to something pre-purchased.

    Although I *think* they can just offer refunds instead of running into the law, which they have offered already.
    Most laws I've seen for various countries only come after a company if they do not provide a full refund if you miss the date promised by the purchase details. If the company doesn't refund, then there can be legal recourse... but as stated, Blizz has been offering full refunds, so it's a non-issue at this point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Not really, besides some bug fixes and levelling experience, they are still making significant changes to class and covenant abilities, they are still making significant changes to soulbinds and conduits, some covenant spells haven't been touched or perform so badly that no reasonable player would ever choose it. Some specs are still playing like absolute dogshit and The Maw is still a dead zone
    Yeah, there's still quite a bit to be done, but it has made progress. The real question is whether Blizz will decide to launch a "good enough" version of Shadowlands or a "we polished this up a LOT" version. Personally, I think they can't really afford to do a "good enough" version, especially if it turns out much worse than that in reality.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Not really, besides some bug fixes and levelling experience, they are still making significant changes to class and covenant abilities, they are still making significant changes to soulbinds and conduits, some covenant spells haven't been touched or perform so badly that no reasonable player would ever choose it. Some specs are still playing like absolute dogshit and The Maw is still a dead zone
    They haven't really made a major change to a covenant ability since the rogue venthyr one. They've made minor changes (like adding a 30% chance to deal extra dmg to the rogue necro one and changing the night fae one from vanish to a single stealth ability), and have done some moving things around, but builds keep getting less and less changes and more balancing.

    We'll be balancing and changing until mythic week anyway, I can almost bet prior to mythic raid there will be MAJOR adjustments again like there always is. But many of the bugs have been sorted, and who knows what they are doing with the maw, it can't really be made more "fun" though, it's just a zone you go to to farm things, all they really need to do is allow mounting.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    They haven't really made a major change to a covenant ability since the rogue venthyr one. They've made minor changes (like adding a 30% chance to deal extra dmg to the rogue necro one and changing the night fae one from vanish to a single stealth ability), and have done some moving things around, but builds keep getting less and less changes and more balancing.

    We'll be balancing and changing until mythic week anyway, I can almost bet prior to mythic raid there will be MAJOR adjustments again like there always is. But many of the bugs have been sorted, and who knows what they are doing with the maw, it can't really be made more "fun" though, it's just a zone you go to to farm things, all they really need to do is allow mounting.
    They literally flipped the Soulbind trees in today's update. That's a little more than 'tuning'. There are still covenant abilities like Soul Rot for warlocks and Convoke the Spirits for druids that are just trash.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Yeah, there's still quite a bit to be done, but it has made progress. The real question is whether Blizz will decide to launch a "good enough" version of Shadowlands or a "we polished this up a LOT" version. Personally, I think they can't really afford to do a "good enough" version, especially if it turns out much worse than that in reality.
    It needs to be more than just 'good enough' because they'll just bleed subs after the first month due to a shitty product. I have big concerns about the sheer number of systems on systems on systems being overly convoluted and confusing for new and returning players and those who haven't been keeping up with beta news. It's all currently pointing to an experience that will disenfranchise players

    I'm more than happy for them to take as long as they want. Pre-patch is reasonably engaging now that we have SL design with essences and azerite trait double dipping goodness. Plus Thanksgiving, Christmas/New Years is coming up so people will be keen to spend time with family if they can, so I'd rather they just put out a decent product than one with holes
    Last edited by Th3Scourge; 2020-10-22 at 03:27 AM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Pohut View Post
    Let's all reflect on the fact that it is already almost the original release date and there is still no new release date announcement.
    And also the new please-don't-leave-us desperate 6-month "promotion."
    2021 is looking more and more likely.
    They will let us know when its ready, considering the state of the beta they can take as long as they need.

    Also a good indication will be when the scourge invasion hits live, its meant to run for two weeks but as things are it could be upto three.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Not really, besides some bug fixes and levelling experience, they are still making significant changes to class and covenant abilities, they are still making significant changes to soulbinds and conduits, some covenant spells haven't been touched or operate so badly that no reasonable player would ever choose it. Some specs are still playing like absolute dogshit and The Maw is still a dead zone
    Thats the build you are playing but not the one that they already worked on and is yet to be released in beta, so they pretty much have done a lot of work fixing them by now

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by ActuaryBro View Post
    Do we even know when we are getting the icecrown event in pre patch?
    We don't know when. It will likely be 4 weeks prior to when they're ready to release Shadowlands as that's the normal track record for when content releases so that "everyone can have a chance to do it".
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  10. #170
    so im going to assume theres a 2 week gap between the launch of prepatch and the events

    as for the launch date being guaranteed 2020 with the current state of beta....i buy it.

    this last build actually got rid of a lot of the phasing bugs and the bugs making some quests impossible. They still exist but we are a month and a half from what i consider the launch day and i imagine those bugs will be fixed

    they are still messing with soulbind trees but lets be honest no matter what they do that system doesnt work. for example:
    the most recent tree change up does allow the more sought after traits to be gained immediately however necrolord and night fae are the only covenants that get the second potency conduit before the renown level 21 which they made the unlock for those slots the same across all covenants because this exact issue was a thing in the past so they are balancing the trees not really reworking anything.

    They are messing with covenant abilities which again is fine they are trying to make the abilities work well between all of the specs like with kyrian monk ability. previously it was bad for WW because it reset the rsk CD which goes against the specs playstyle but now its been changed so that RSK just reduces the chi cost of abilities by 1 for 5 seconds which helps speed the entire rotation up and i love it....and now you get the added 40% mastery buff immediately in the pelagos tree.

    Class reworks probably arent happening "some specs play like dogshit" congrats bud you are now playing a shaman or a bfa shadow priest. They are tuning stuff and thats a majority of what you will see maybe some talent changes.

    the thing is the main requirements for launch are the covenant abilities and soulbinds along with bug fixes. you can rework classes all you want but the core system of the expansion has to work

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Beta has improved greatly since the delay. They seem to be mostly in tuning mode now.
    Improved greatly is a huge exaggeration in my opinion. And all the Maw stuff is still missing and that must be tested properly, again. Plus, they haven't touched Covenant abilities in weeks and for many classes they still are absolutely awful. There is still a lot to do.

    They want Covenants to be meaningful, yet they nerf them in the wrong places. Then there are specs (in some cases classes) that have only one Covenant ability that makes sense and all others are pointless or a net loss, even if they buff them (for Priests, except Discipline, all four Covenant abilities are awful; for Discipline only Venthyr is good / Shamans are in a similar boat, so are Monks).

    If we're optimistic, we have 6 weeks left until launch on 8th December, that's maybe 2-3 more beta builds. When will they finally start changing and improving unused Covenant abilities? I'd say of all 48 available Covenant abilities 50% will never get chosen because they're mechanically dysfunctional, not engaging/fun to use or just severely undertuned = useless.
    Last edited by Nyel; 2020-10-22 at 07:21 AM.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3Scourge View Post
    Nothing is guaranteed. They are under no legal obligation to release SL prior to Jan 1st 2021.
    Well, they are, unless they want to breach the contract they made with the pre-purschasers, which stipulates 31st of December as final delivery date, despite people pretending different, this constitutes a legal contract in every sense of the word.

    This does not mean that we can demand or sue for a release, but with the breach of delivery time we as buyers can then officially anull the contract made and demand full refunds.
    So yes, if they want to keep the pre-order contract valid, they are under legal obligation to release before this time. As buyers we can choose to be hard-asses about it, or let it slide and allow them to extend the contracts delivery time. Most people that actually wanna play the game will probably choose the latter and the repercussions will be mild.

    As americans though, I am relatively sure they are very afraid of breaching a contract, since americans sue people as a hobby. Some lawyer will eventually find a way to sue extra money out of them for that, even if it is an extremely stupid way.

    Personally I somewhat expecting the pre-patch event to start next week and a release at the end of November to early december.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Well, they are, unless they want to breach the contract they made with the pre-purschasers, which stipulates 31st of December as final delivery date, despite people pretending different, this constitutes a legal contract in every sense of the word.

    This does not mean that we can demand or sue for a release, but with the breach of delivery time we as buyers can then officially anull the contract made and demand full refunds.
    So yes, if they want to keep the pre-order contract valid, they are under legal obligation to release before this time. As buyers we can choose to be hard-asses about it, or let it slide and allow them to extend the contracts delivery time. Most people that actually wanna play the game will probably choose the latter and the repercussions will be mild.

    As americans though, I am relatively sure they are very afraid of breaching a contract, since americans sue people as a hobby. Some lawyer will eventually find a way to sue extra money out of them for that, even if it is an extremely stupid way.

    Personally I somewhat expecting the pre-patch event to start next week and a release at the end of November to early december.
    they will just allow a refund like they did with wc3 whent they delayd it

    so many armchair laywers here on mmoc

  14. #174
    Before pre-patch released they said that the pre-patch event would start after a couple of weeks, so at this point we should expect the event to begin this next Tuesday. Most pre-patches last for, what, a month before the expansion releases? I am betting that we can look forward to Shadowlands late November. That's just my take though, I could be wrong of course but I choose to be optimistic.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    Worst that can happen is they have to offer refunds, no matter the country. There wouldn't be legal proceedings for delaying a game.
    They already offer refunds because for a big company like Blizzard its less hassle to give everyone a refund compared to checking each individual countries laws.
    And as an EU citizen I have the right to a refund for any game that I preorder that hasn't been released yet.

    Those who had refunds denied were because part of their order was non-refundable (gametime that was already used).
    Last edited by Gorsameth; 2020-10-22 at 09:15 AM.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by apelsinjuice View Post
    they will just allow a refund like they did with wc3 whent they delayd it

    so many armchair laywers here on mmoc
    Which is exactly what I said, but you did not read that, did you?

    Though it is not so much about "allowing" refunds. When they breach the contract they have no choice in the matter anymore. Denying refunds then, that would open them up for a lot of legal trouble, but they aren't that stupid.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    Well, they are, unless they want to breach the contract they made with the pre-purschasers, which stipulates 31st of December as final delivery date, despite people pretending different, this constitutes a legal contract in every sense of the word.

    This does not mean that we can demand or sue for a release, but with the breach of delivery time we as buyers can then officially anull the contract made and demand full refunds.
    So yes, if they want to keep the pre-order contract valid, they are under legal obligation to release before this time. As buyers we can choose to be hard-asses about it, or let it slide and allow them to extend the contracts delivery time. Most people that actually wanna play the game will probably choose the latter and the repercussions will be mild.

    As americans though, I am relatively sure they are very afraid of breaching a contract, since americans sue people as a hobby. Some lawyer will eventually find a way to sue extra money out of them for that, even if it is an extremely stupid way.

    Personally I somewhat expecting the pre-patch event to start next week and a release at the end of November to early december.
    Incorrect. There is no legally binding contract, but this will vary from country to country. They'll just offer refunds in regions that may outlaw such practices

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootynuzzler View Post
    Before pre-patch released they said that the pre-patch event would start after a couple of weeks, so at this point we should expect the event to begin this next Tuesday. Most pre-patches last for, what, a month before the expansion releases? I am betting that we can look forward to Shadowlands late November. That's just my take though, I could be wrong of course but I choose to be optimistic.
    The event won't start until there are 2-3 weeks left for the expansion release. Maybe 4, but that's starting to be too much for that kind of event.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    A worldwide pandemic says hi. The 6 month promotional stuff happens every 6 months regardless. Nice to see the desperate spinning though.

    If it needs delay until 21, so be it.
    Just to be clear, the pandemic is a completely valid excuse, but they started multiple times that it barely affected them in their work and a 2020 Release will be no problem.
    Until it was a problem, then suddenly it was the pandemic.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    Just to be clear, the pandemic is a completely valid excuse, but they started multiple times that it barely affected them in their work and a 2020 Release will be no problem.
    Until it was a problem, then suddenly it was the pandemic.
    This is standard practice. There alot of zombie corps out there doing similar things.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •