Still no release date announcement

[Raisei]

Incorrect. There is no legally binding contract, but this will vary from country to country. They'll just offer refunds in regions that may outlaw such practices

Considering there was a transaction of money for the promise of a delivery it sure as hell is a binding contract where I come from. But true, my knowledge ends with my countries borders. Here, this is really not much different then ordering anything online. Two parties agree to terms, both are bound to fullfill these. That is the definition of a contract, here at least. From buying a pack of bubblegum to a sports car all fall under that category.

We fullfilled our part by paying the demanded sum, now Blizzard has to deliver the product by the date that was in the contract ever since Blizzcon (31st of Dec). If they can't or won't the contract becomes null and void and we have the right to a refund.

For other more essential items or items that we expected to sell or use for commerce of our own there would be the option to sue for the financial damage we suffered for the delay, but of course you would require a really good lawyer to explain why not having the game causes you financial or physical damage.

[Samuraijake]

releasing after election day IS kind of an interesting topic to mention

[Th3Scourge]

Considering there was a transaction of money for the promise of a delivery it sure as hell is a binding contract where I come from. But true, my knowledge ends with my countries borders. Here, this is really not much different then ordering anything online. Two parties agree to terms, both are bound to fullfill these. That is the definition of a contract, here at least. From buying a pack of bubblegum to a sports car all fall under that category.

We fullfilled our part by paying the demanded sum, now Blizzard has to deliver the product by the date that was in the contract ever since Blizzcon (31st of Dec). If they can't or won't the contract becomes null and void and we have the right to a refund.

For other more essential items or items that we expected to sell or use for commerce of our own there would be the option to sue for the financial damage we suffered for the delay, but of course you would require a really good lawyer to explain why not having the game causes you financial or physical damage.

But that's exactly the point. they can refund if you're unhappy if the product isn't delivered by the estimated time. They have no legal obligation to meet that timeframe

[slime]

Don't they release xpacs around xmas normally?

[Huzzaa]

Don't they release xpacs around xmas normally?

If they release the tier into xmas, quite a few people are going to rip their hair out. Me included probably.

Not looking forward to that. In fact, probably won't be raiding, so RIP those ranks, whatever they may have been.

IF it opens before christmas.

[TheLucky1]

I really feel alienated/disconnected from posts like these.

Are there really people out there that would rather play unfinished garbage that needs fixing for maybe months rather than waiting 2-3 months longer?
Is a announcement for the release that important in your life?

OP is not the only guy i've read that from, it weirds me out.

[enigma77]

2021 is looking more and more likely.

Hopefully it comes out in 2021. I want them to take their time and make something good instead of rushing it to appease impatient people like you, only for you to then moan a month after release how the expansion sucks and there's nothing to do.

Good things take time. The reason why Ulduar was the best raid is because the first raid tier had 2 mini raids and rehashed Naxx, they had lots of time to work on Ulduar. The reason why Legion was awesome, is because they cancelled WoD and had lots of time to work on Legion.

Blizzard needs time to make great things. And I'd rather wait til August of next year and get something fantastic than get something bad in 2020.

[Raisei]

But that's exactly the point. they can refund if you're unhappy if the product isn't delivered by the estimated time. They have no legal obligation to meet that timeframe

But refunding is the legal anulllment of the contract... so yes, their legal obligation is delivering by the specified time, if they can't or won't they have the legal obligation to refund our money.

It would be different if there was no time specified in the pre-order, then they could release whenever and had no obligation to refund, but since there is, they are under obligation and the contract hinges on this date.

For example, the same would be true if you order a buffet for a wedding. The wedding day is of course part of the contract, because you have no use for the food before or after that date, hence the caterer is legally obligated to deliver on that date or refund you, if they cannot do so.

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Blizzard needs time to make great things. And I'd rather wait til August of next year and get something fantastic than get something bad in 2020.

That would end in a disaster. Another 10 month? No thanks. I am a big fan of the game but even I am not waiting almost another year for this expansion with nothing to do in game. People would unsub en masse and Blizzard would loose a ton of money. That is just not gonna happen.

[Gorsameth]

But refunding is the legal anulllment of the contract... so yes, their legal obligation is delivering by the specified time, if they can't or won't they have the legal obligation to refund our money.

It would be different if there was no time specified in the pre-order, then they could release whenever and had no obligation to refund, but since there is, they are under obligation and the contract hinges on this date.

For example, the same would be true if you order a buffet for a wedding. The wedding day is of course part of the contract, because you have no use for the food before or after that date, hence the caterer is legally obligated to deliver on that date or refund you, if they cannot do so.

Are you aware that right now, this very minute you can refund your Shadowlands pre-order? and that you have always been able to refund your shadowlands pre-order?
(assuming you didn't get the extra expensive version which includes gametime because then part of the order has been used and they wont refund).

[Martymark]

In 2077, "Shadowlands Forever" will finally be released.

[Super Kami Dende]

literally 10000's of other games exist.

Go play something else for a few months, goddamn.

[unbound]

Things are more broken than they are hinting at. It was never about needing more time to polish. They are still making notable changes to content and some elements of classes as well.

And, no, this is not due to the pandemic. The original late release (this is the longest we've been between expansions) might have been due to pandemic. The pandemic did not cripple operations for months...it caused a shift for a few weeks and that's it.

[Raisei]

Are you aware that right now, this very minute you can refund your Shadowlands pre-order? and that you have always been able to refund your shadowlands pre-order?
(assuming you didn't get the extra expensive version which includes gametime because then part of the order has been used and they wont refund).

I am fully aware. I am also aware that they technically did not have to do that, but did it anyway to shut up the people that would have complained otherwise (a very common thing in big companies, the refund is not a lot for them, having to deal with angry customers will get much more expensive).

However my point was that by going over the contractually designated date of 31st of December there is no choice for them anymore. They do it atm because it makes sense for them financially. If they break the contract they have to do it.

It will also be interesting to see how refunds with partially used things can work. Like the game time. I am not sure they can deny those then, but possibly they will only have to refund the "base edition" without the game time. Well, those things are what you hire real lawyers for.
And the fact that they will need to pay a lawyer then to haggle out these details again tells you that they will move heaven and earth to not break this contract.

[Gorsameth]

I am fully aware. I am also aware that they technically did not have to do that, but did it anyway to shut up the people that would have complained otherwise (a very common thing in big companies, the refund is not a lot for them, having to deal with angry customers will get much more expensive).

However my point was that by going over the contractually designated date of 31st of December there is no choice for them anymore. They do it atm because it makes sense for them financially. If they break the contract they have to do it.

It will also be interesting to see how refunds with partially used things can work. Like the game time. I am not sure they can deny those then, but possibly they will only have to refund the "base edition" without the game time. Well, those things are what you hire real lawyers for.
And the fact that they will need to pay a lawyer then to haggle out these details again tells you that they will move heaven and earth to not break this contract.

No, they technically have to offer refunds at all times.
As an EU citizen it is my right to refund any product that has not been shipped yet.
Until the day Shadowlands releases it is my right to refund it for any reason I see fit.

And as a major international business its easier for Blizzard to let all their customers do this then check each countries individual laws every time someone wants a refund.

[nunotex]

Are you aware that right now, this very minute you can refund your Shadowlands pre-order? and that you have always been able to refund your shadowlands pre-order?
(assuming you didn't get the extra expensive version which includes gametime because then part of the order has been used and they wont refund).

Actually, and I did this recently, you can refund, even on those editions.
You just need to have 30 days on your balance from Game Time Card or 6-Month Sub left over, I had 33 days.

After they refund me, I had 3 days remaining.
Those 30 days that were used was from my sub time, not from acquiring Shadowlands Epic Edition.

[Onikaroshi]

They literally flipped the Soulbind trees in today's update. That's a little more than 'tuning'. There are still covenant abilities like Soul Rot for warlocks and Convoke the Spirits for druids that are just trash.

That literally is tuning, they didn't massively change any of them, they just moved them around.

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literally 10000's of other games exist.

Go play something else for a few months, goddamn.

Nothing I want to play. So I just keep playing beta at this point.

[facefist]

But that's exactly the point. they can refund if you're unhappy if the product isn't delivered by the estimated time. They have no legal obligation to meet that timeframe

Don't argue law if you don't understand the terminology. Legal obligation doesn't mean you are forced to meet your obligations (I mean hell, what logic is that even?) - it just means that if you don't meet your obligation, you might face other consequences. Which in this case, at least where I live, would be to offer refunds. For example, a non-disclosure agreement is legally binding. You have a legal obligation to keep your mouth shut, but no one can force you to be shut. You'll just face consequences if you break the agreement.

For some reason people seem to confuse "legally binding" with something that puts you into jail or something similar. Many things are legally binding yet there are zero consequences if you don't meet your legal obligations.

[enigma77]

But refunding is the legal anulllment of the contract... so yes, their legal obligation is delivering by the specified time, if they can't or won't they have the legal obligation to refund our money.

It would be different if there was no time specified in the pre-order, then they could release whenever and had no obligation to refund, but since there is, they are under obligation and the contract hinges on this date.

For example, the same would be true if you order a buffet for a wedding. The wedding day is of course part of the contract, because you have no use for the food before or after that date, hence the caterer is legally obligated to deliver on that date or refund you, if they cannot do so.

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That would end in a disaster. Another 10 month? No thanks. I am a big fan of the game but even I am not waiting almost another year for this expansion with nothing to do in game. People would unsub en masse and Blizzard would loose a ton of money. That is just not gonna happen.

I'm not saying it's happening, I'm saying I'd prefer it over a shit product at launch, if rushed.

[Rtrain]

Hopefully it comes out in 2021. I want them to take their time and make something good instead of rushing it to appease impatient people like you, only for you to then moan a month after release how the expansion sucks and there's nothing to do.

Good things take time. The reason why Ulduar was the best raid is because the first raid tier had 2 mini raids and rehashed Naxx, they had lots of time to work on Ulduar. The reason why Legion was awesome, is because they cancelled WoD and had lots of time to work on Legion.

Blizzard needs time to make great things. And I'd rather wait til August of next year and get something fantastic than get something bad in 2020.

You’re overly optimistic if you think more time is going to make a huge difference. They need more time because they designed the self into a corner and now they are stuck.

Even by your example; a lot of people consider wod a better expansion then legion. Even with all the design time legion had many flaws. Wod an expansion thst was clearly abandoned was great, the biggest complaint was a lack of content.

Guess what’s going to happen here? Blizzard is going to delay shadowlands, which will give them less time to develop further patches in shadowlands which means less content in the long run. There’s even a chance shadowlands just get abandoned like wod so they can work on their next expansion.

Blizzard is not going to be productive with this extra time and if you wanted a polished game released you’re going to be waiting another year for shadowlands, get worse patch content, and blizzard abandoning the end of the Shadowlands expansion for their next.

[Exkrementor]

2021 is looking more and more likely.

I hope so. Delaying the expansion for only a few weeks would make no difference. The only reason they would release Shadowlands this year is that allmighty shareholder money. And we all know thats priority number 1.

Release in late january would be nice.