https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvdc...l=BearAlMighty
Again it doesn't really ignore anything it's actually supported by the the solidarity seen in the in-game follow up scene with Saurfang's funeral. But you're free to believe the contrary if you wish.
I think you missed my point entirely. In short it proves that if the group following Slyvannas was the blood thirsty killers that don't care for killing their own people and kind, no statement made by Sylvannas would have convinced them to open the doors and not kill the "traitors" anyway. The fact that that statement alone by Slyvannas and the death of Suarfang pushed them to reject her shows that among the loyalists, there were people who didn't agree with her and her ways. In the end, saying that they would have killed the rebel group regardless of Slyvannas uttering those words is still conjecture on your part no matter how many words you capitalize.
Again it boils down to this quote:
This is an assumption. Bold and capitalized letters aren't facts. All i'm saying is anything could have happened and their reaction post what Slyvannas actions after the battle points away from what you think would have happened. Not saying it's impossible but we just don't know despite what you are proposing.Literally, the entire rebellion was doomed if not for Sylvanas giving the Horde the literal middle finger and then realizing "oh, wait, everyone's watching"
Thats an Alliance player's PoV. I wouldn't want to defect to the alliance after the burning of tree,i am horde and i love my faction. The more logical thing to happen would be after the burning, the horde goes into defense cause the alliance are pissed, and then organise another rebelion. It might have been SoO 2.0 but it would make sense. Have peace talks with the alliance, identify who are the loyalists and prepare. Instead we have that lil'bitch Baine who is all bark no bite( on second thought not even barking) and Lor'themar that is frankly a pussy. The only way to get that elf to act is to either corner him, like it happens with naszatar, fight or flight mode has to forced on him or he just talks and talks until a major event happens and then plays the odds and join the winning side. Like in siege of orgrimmar he was either gonna defect to alliance or join the rebelion, he didnt join officialy until the very last minute. Lastly there is Varok Saurfang and Thrakk who want to make a change but realise that they are too old and depressed to give a fuck and only because of zappy boi we have that pathetic rebelion/mak'gora where the rebels get to win only because i want to believe Varok was smart enough to play with Sylvanas' temper otherwise she would have wiped the floor with all of them. The entire storyline is based on emotion and sheer fucking luck. And those things dont fit into the horde. As horde player and main tauren and orc i am fucking disappointed with how the horde looks atm. Unless in shadowlands we grow some balls i really dunno what im gonna do. Prob make a panda neutral and lvl my way with mining and herbing.
''Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities'' ~Voltaire
''As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.'' ~Dickmann's Law
''No life is worth living if we can't be true to our nature'' ~Baine Bloodhoof
Same reason Alliance players blamed Sylvanas for Varian's death. I understand alliance characters being ignorant, but it kinda goes to show that many of the Alliance players are willfully.
There's 2 factions and 2 sides to the story when it comes to the faction conflict, sometimes if you only pay attention your side's, you fall into traps. Like Horde player would never know that the Sanlayn joined the Horde, despite how heavily involved we are in all the areas they showed up and how not really low-key it was. Or how the Alliance enslaved Pandaren in MoP in the Horde questing area.
Nothing on the Horde side indicated that this was going to happen, even that village in Ashenvale was worse than what Horde saw.
And to reply to myself with something else that came to mind and only reinforces the whole emotional arc. The night elves had their fleet on the way during the burning of the tree and when they arrived, the darkshore happened. In canon lore the alliance wins darkshore, instead of pushing through ashenvale into orgrimmar and talking some peace with the rebels and join them in to dealing with Sylvanas the edgy tyrande fucks around in darkshore.
''Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities'' ~Voltaire
''As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.'' ~Dickmann's Law
''No life is worth living if we can't be true to our nature'' ~Baine Bloodhoof
That's an interesting idea, I do agree to a certain extent. But, sometimes it goes the other way? For example there's people that still think that Garrosh wasn't an evil guy at the end of MoP. Only because they bought into the propaganda presented from the Garrosh point of view if that makes sense?
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No actually you are completely mischaracterizing the initial point of disagreement and clouding with extraneous information that has no bearing on the discussion. To what end i don't know. All I know is what would happen if Slyvannas had killed Saurfang and not said the dreadful words she uttered not caring for the horde. Plain and simple. You think you know what that result would be an i simply disagree with it. It's quite simple. Hence the agree to disagree cause you keep missing the point.
Maby its the fact that the horde time and time again has proven they can not be trusted ever. whenever the alliance pull some shit its always a small group or a single instagator. genn might not have been punished but sky admiral Catherine Rogers sure was, seeing as she hasn't been seen or heard from since. my gues she was stripped of her rank and banished, moved back up north and joined the scarlet brotherhood.
in the horde case however when they pull shit everyone is always on board to kill some alliance dogs no matter if its justified or not,
IMHO Warcraft 3 is an outlier. horde fight wars because they think their fun and nothing else.
The Alliance Needs some Zealotry going around. Because im getting sick and tired of having to turn the other cheek whenever the horde tries to start something.
To be fair the Warcraft 3 Horde was just an entirely different animal. One could say roughly the same in the initial years of Thralls rule give or take.
The issue is really the narrative. The narrative is usually very linear and doesn't accommodate for dissenting voices or anything that deviates from the main story line. I just wish for once when they do return to the faction conflict sooner or later, let it be something more grey, not another Garrosh or another Slyvannas, just perhaps a disagreement in philosophy or a simple misunderstanding that turns into a greater problem. Like the whole azerite thing had the potential of being a resource war but that was pretty much abandoned.
I mean faction war stories are impossible to really write in MMORPGs because there's no winner or loser. The whole faction conflict plot is illogical and makes every major lore character look incompetent. The best stories in WoW were those not about faction nonsense
Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)
At the end of MoP, I feel like it'd be more of meme at that point, but at the end of Cata, I can see it more, especially considering he had numerous moments that conflicted with each other.
One thing with Garrosh is that you actually have retcons and behind the scene revelations 2 years later to vilify the character more. Apparently for 2 years, there was a bunch of human captives in Ogrimmar and we just never knew of it the whole time, but from the Alliance PoV coming into Orgrimmar, to you(if you're alliance) it must make us look guilty of this, despite it wasn't a thing until SoO.
Tbh, Blizzard is just really bad at developing their story, they had a really good story going on 15+ years ago and have just shitted on it constantly with every development. Did you know that after Thrall appointed a supposed racist warmonger as warchief, Voljin went and then did the same thing and everyone was shocked that the same story played out again
Hopefully we're done with faction conflict cause it's always a miss, especially with delivering the story to the players, especially both sides.