My wish for later Shadowland patches: A flying zone

[paxen]

I'm on board with turning off flying for new expansions, levelling in BfA and Legion was good with just ground mounts, the flight master and flight points gave a good flow even with the limitations, and it's also more fun to fly somewhere when you remember when you had to walk!

But levelling through Storm Peaks the scale of the place is magnificent. Doing quests for Thorim is a drag pre-Master riding, but just the concept of a quest giver living a thousand meters above the zones he gives quests for is just fun. And the view from the Temple of Storms is fantastic.

So, yes, I like flying being disabled at the start of an expansion, but there's always extra zones these days (Nasjatar, Argus, even Hellfire). Wouldn't it be great if the late expansion zones were actually designed for flying, like Storm Peaks? And Shadowlands would be the perfect place to really explore a true 3D zone that's not even limited by the laws of physics.

[Baneto]

Knowing current Blizzard you'd have to get exalted with all factions including ones they will release over time, and maybe in 9.3 you can have it.

[Aritra the Gnome]

The single biggest mistake Blizzard ever did with WoW was adding Flying in the first place.

[Eurhetemec]

I don't think a flying zone is likely unless they change their mind on Pathfinder.

If they keep Pathfinder, as seems very likely, then if they add a flying-oriented zone, they have two choices:

1) Only people who've done Pathfinder Part 2 have access to it. This is not going to be popular. Especially if anything in Pathfinder is at all annoying - and some of it will inevitably be time-gated. People will Hulk-style rage out if it requires Exalted or Revered with a Faction and it's remotely time-consuming to get that. So yeah I don't think that's viable.

2) Ignore Pathfinder for that zone only, which will confuse some more casual people and cause other people to question why Pathfinder exists, and I think generally be more trouble than it's worth.

I could see 2) happening if the zone was entirely superfluous - like nothing in it at all was important and it was just basically a testbed for future flying zones, I guess.

However I think flying zones generally don't work well for the same reasons underwater ones don't work well. Humans don't really inherently enjoy vertical movement in that way. It's the whole "people never look up" thing. Sure, you lose the "people who hate the vibe of being underwater" issue, but instead you gain the "people who don't like being too high up" issue, and some people really hate flying over gaps/endless drops and so on.

Plus WoW's flying is not inherently interesting like flying is in some games - flight sims of all kinds (whether it's Pilotwings or FS2020) or even stuff like GW2 where there's an actual system to flying your monster around. It's just boring arbitrary vertical movement. Most people just use it to make hops like they had a jetpack, or cross long distances faster (i.e. "as the crow flies"). I don't think people would be excited about flying up and down between islands of floating rocks or whatever.

If there was some kind of system/gameplay, like GW2's glider and updrafts and so on, then maybe a few more people would be excited, but overall I just don't think this is something most players would get excited about.

[Yorimar]

blizzard hates flying, thats why they come up with these brainless grinds that cant be completed untill 1.5 years into the xpac. they initially want it removed but since so many people are fond of it, they cant. they should just allow access to flying without me needing to unlock something... every new xpac my flying mounts forgot how to fly? fuck off... for those arguing they dont want flying MOUNT A GODDAMN GROUND MOUNT OR DONT HIT THE SPACEBAR!

[MrLachyG]

Knowing current Blizzard you'd have to get exalted with all factions including ones they will release over time, and maybe in 9.3 you can have it.

I mean they've already announced there will be a Shadowlands Pathfinder system similar to the ones we've had for the last 3 expansions, but no please continue with your "maybe in 9.3" bullshit

[Baneto]

I mean they've already announced there will be a Shadowlands Pathfinder system similar to the ones we've had for the last 3 expansions, but no please continue with your "maybe in 9.3" bullshit

The only system that is bullshit is the pathfinder-achievement, historically it has been completely garbage timegated and tedious.

Will it be more of the same or have they actually tried to listen to feedback and improved it this turn around?

[Nzx]

fuck off... for those arguing they dont want flying MOUNT A GODDAMN GROUND MOUNT OR DONT HIT THE SPACEBAR!

for those arguing they want flying ACHIEVE PATHFINDER OR PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME!

Love a good reductionist hyperbole to get me going in the morning thanks buddy!

Will it be more of the same

Hopefully! I like making a meaningful RPG choice of where to go on my ground mount to avoid getting dazed or fighting creatures just like I LOVE making a meaningful RPG choice of a single covenant (like everyone else on this forum and the WoW subreddit keep saying is awesome).

[BB8]

I'm on board with turning off flying for new expansions, levelling in BfA and Legion was good with just ground mounts, the flight master and flight points gave a good flow even with the limitations, and it's also more fun to fly somewhere when you remember when you had to walk!

But levelling through Storm Peaks the scale of the place is magnificent. Doing quests for Thorim is a drag pre-Master riding, but just the concept of a quest giver living a thousand meters above the zones he gives quests for is just fun. And the view from the Temple of Storms is fantastic.

So, yes, I like flying being disabled at the start of an expansion, but there's always extra zones these days (Nasjatar, Argus, even Hellfire). Wouldn't it be great if the late expansion zones were actually designed for flying, like Storm Peaks? And Shadowlands would be the perfect place to really explore a true 3D zone that's not even limited by the laws of physics.

Never thought about an only flying zone (with some islands for landing etc.)
I think shadowlands is perfect for this in a future patch.
Since most zones are a transition to the next life maybe they can create something like mount Olympus where souls go before they are thrown back to the living to learn more about life.

[paxen]

However I think flying zones generally don't work well for the same reasons underwater ones don't work well. Humans don't really inherently enjoy vertical movement in that way. It's the whole "people never look up" thing. Sure, you lose the "people who hate the vibe of being underwater" issue, but instead you gain the "people who don't like being too high up" issue, and some people really hate flying over gaps/endless drops and so on.

Plus WoW's flying is not inherently interesting like flying is in some games - flight sims of all kinds (whether it's Pilotwings or FS2020) or even stuff like GW2 where there's an actual system to flying your monster around. It's just boring arbitrary vertical movement. Most people just use it to make hops like they had a jetpack, or cross long distances faster (i.e. "as the crow flies"). I don't think people would be excited about flying up and down between islands of floating rocks or whatever.

If there was some kind of system/gameplay, like GW2's glider and updrafts and so on, then maybe a few more people would be excited, but overall I just don't think this is something most players would get excited about.

I buy the argument that 3D makes stuff confusing, but, again Vash'jir* and Storm Peaks are already in the game. And they're great, so Blizzard have done good stuff with this in the past. (I think my biggest issue with Vas was that I kept my usual zoomed out raiding perspective, which is fantastically confusing when you're actually moving in 3D. Zooming in to close third person or even first person helped immensely. If I only knew that when I was healing on Valithria.)

Anyway, the point isn't really that 3D movement is interesting, but that you can get some fantastic scenery even with WoW's simplistic flying mechanics. And it would be great to see more of it.

For Pathfinder, yeah, it would remove the "working at it" element. But replace it with an introductory quest line that both opens the new zone AND grants flying account-wide, and I think you'd have a hit.

*yes, I know that many people hate the zone. But many people love it as well.

[Baneto]

for those arguing they want flying ACHIEVE PATHFINDER OR PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME!

Love a good reductionist hyperbole to get me going in the morning thanks buddy!



Hopefully! I like making a meaningful RPG choice of where to go on my ground mount to avoid getting dazed or fighting creatures just like I LOVE making a meaningful RPG choice of a single covenant (like everyone else on this forum and the WoW subreddit keep saying is awesome).

Another person parroting the buzzword "meaningful choice" that doesnt really mean anything since its completely subjective.

Stay on the ground if you hate flying, make it a "meaningsful choice" how about that? I mean its an RPG after all, you can play that role.

[paxen]

Never thought about an only flying zone (with some islands for landing etc.)
I think shadowlands is perfect for this in a future patch.
Since most zones are a transition to the next life maybe they can create something like mount Olympus where souls go before they are thrown back to the living to learn more about life.

Yeah, Shadowlands is a great opportunity for creating something truly magnificent for this!

[chir0n]

Adding verticality and a lot of layers to a zone might be fun. It can get pretty confusing aswell though. (Think: The Oculus)
- speaking from experience after playing the Heart of Thorns expansion from GW2 which is all about verticality

But I'm all for an idea like this. It would be a great addition to wow. At least it would be something new and refreshing

[thilicen]

for those arguing they dont want flying MOUNT A GODDAMN GROUND MOUNT OR DONT HIT THE SPACEBAR!

Not sure if your excessively brilliant (and I can only assume you spent hours on this) solution covers me not wanting to deal with people flying in from above while I'm busy with a pack of mobs in WPVP or the fact that they do their damnedest to get away and mount up to fly if they are losing themselves. Oh yeah, and the whole meeting people on the ground makes the world feel more alive thing. Other than that, solid stuff.

[Baneto]

Not sure if your excessively brilliant (and I can only assume you spent hours on this) solution covers me not wanting to deal with people flying in from above while I'm busy with a pack of mobs in WPVP or the fact that they do their damnedest to get away and mount up to fly if they are losing themselves. Oh yeah, and the whole meeting people on the ground makes the world feel more alive thing. Other than that, solid stuff.

Turn off WM.

[Eurhetemec]

I buy the argument that 3D makes stuff confusing, but, again Vash'jir* and Storm Peaks are already in the game. And they're great, so Blizzard have done good stuff with this in the past. (I think my biggest issue with Vas was that I kept my usual zoomed out raiding perspective, which is fantastically confusing when you're actually moving in 3D. Zooming in to close third person or even first person helped immensely. If I only knew that when I was healing on Valithria.)

Anyway, the point isn't really that 3D movement is interesting, but that you can get some fantastic scenery even with WoW's simplistic flying mechanics. And it would be great to see more of it.

For Pathfinder, yeah, it would remove the "working at it" element. But replace it with an introductory quest line that both opens the new zone AND grants flying account-wide, and I think you'd have a hit.

*yes, I know that many people hate the zone. But many people love it as well.

You know Vash'jr was from 2010 and Storm Peaks 2008 right though? And nothing quite like that has happened since for a reason.

I agree that zooming in tightly helps with 3D stuff (I learned this in Dark Age of Camelot's Trials of Atlantis expansion back in 2003), but it also makes it much harder to appreciate a lot of scenery, which is antithetical to what you're asking for here. Plus it's just not how a lot of people play WoW, or want to play WoW. Just look at how people react to the Oculus, too. It's a piss-easy dungeon that's quicker than some Wrath ones, but if you get it in random Wrath, usually 2-3 people drop group immediately, even knowing they'll get penalties and so on. They hate 3D movement SO MUCH that they'd rather eat a 15-30 minute dungeon break than have to engage with it.

Would I like to see some really cool scenery in a zone that doesn't obey the laws of physics? Yes.

Is SL a great expansion for that kind of thing? Yes.

Do you need flying to do that? NOPE lol.

You sure do not. You can do that without having to have people have flying. You just have rainbow-bridges or getting turned into a bolt of light or whatever to move people between places. It's also much easier to set up dramatic views and scenery when you know people will be on the ground, and can arrange views accordingly. Sure the zone may become vastly more convenient with flying, but everything you're asking for? It could be done without flying.

[Grimbold21]

My opinion is unchanged: pathfinder is horrible.

However i would risk saying that the pro flying crowd would be more amicable to no flying IF map design wasn't so awfully constricted.

Just designe zones like in any, i dunno, pre mop expansion, or even mop.

[LanToaster]

The single biggest mistake Blizzard ever did with WoW was adding Flying in the first place.

Funny thing is, if they didnt add Flying back than, we probably would have countless threads asking for flying each and every Expansion.

On the Topic:
I really liked the way Flying was handled in Burning Crusade. In all other Expansions I remember not so much.

The thing with flying is, that it can enable you to get to places you were not able before. This was done nice in Burning Crusade and LichKing.
Where in BC it only opend MaxLevel Farming Spots, and daily quests, it opened up in Lichking basically an entire zone. It felt in my Opinion better to unlock flying and access new Content I wasnt before.

With the Pathfinder in recent expansions, basically all Content was open for Ground Mounts, (as it had to be), and with the Unlock of Flying you just got around Quicker.

A Zone designed with Flying in mind, can be so much more Interesting. Nazjatar in that regard has quite some wasted Potential.

However I think flying zones generally don't work well for the same reasons underwater ones don't work well. Humans don't really inherently enjoy vertical movement in that way. It's the whole "people never look up" thing. Sure, you lose the "people who hate the vibe of being underwater" issue, but instead you gain the "people who don't like being too high up" issue, and some people really hate flying over gaps/endless drops and so on.

Sadly this is true, while I loved Vashjir (Or what the Underwater zone was called), I know alot of people who struggle with 3 dimensions to travel i.

Remember The Occulus? Always funny to watch.

If there was some kind of system/gameplay, like GW2's glider and updrafts and so on, then maybe a few more people would be excited, but overall I just don't think this is something most players would get excited about.

Yea, a better Flying mechanic would´ve been nice, but the chances for that are probably non existant.

I agree that zooming in tightly helps with 3D stuff , but it also makes it much harder to appreciate a lot of scenery, which is antithetical to what you're asking for here.

You can design a zone so you need to be in the air to get the proper, or even a different feel. That is all up to the Artists, and I think the Artists working on WoW are outstanding.

[XDurionX]

The single biggest mistake Blizzard ever did with WoW was adding Flying in the first place.

Yup. Certainly destroyed the "world" in "WoW". There is no exploration, no danger, no excitement anymore when i can reach any point in 30 secs flight.

[paxen]

You know Vash'jr was from 2010 and Storm Peaks 2008 right though? And nothing quite like that has happened since for a reason.

I agree that zooming in tightly helps with 3D stuff (I learned this in Dark Age of Camelot's Trials of Atlantis expansion back in 2003), but it also makes it much harder to appreciate a lot of scenery, which is antithetical to what you're asking for here. Plus it's just not how a lot of people play WoW, or want to play WoW. Just look at how people react to the Oculus, too.

It's a good point that zooming in to handle 3D combat works against the scenic thing. So perhaps any new zones should be more Storm Peaks, less Vash.

The thing with flying is, that it can enable you to get to places you were not able before. This was done nice in Burning Crusade and LichKing.
Where in BC it only opend MaxLevel Farming Spots, and daily quests, it opened up in Lichking basically an entire zone. It felt in my Opinion better to unlock flying and access new Content I wasnt before.
<snip>
You can design a zone so you need to be in the air to get the proper, or even a different feel. That is all up to the Artists, and I think the Artists working on WoW are outstanding.

That's sort of exactly the thing I'm going for with this, I think? The mid-expansion zone is accessible through flying, so unlocking flight unlocks the zone! (Of course, what really unlocks the zone is some patch dropping, so Blizz would have to do some sleight of hand here...)