Let us all at least agree to this:

[Beastiel]

i'm not entirely against mmo cash shop transmogs but a little bit of pushback from the community is healthy. I don't think you want to see how badly things could get with an entire community of Felplagues.

The worst thing you could do is tell people they don't have any right to a voice.

[erifwodahs]

So, you are thinking if the store would not exist everything in the store would be in the base game? Because thats what the People i´m arguing with think/want. And thats what I´m refering to.


I never claimed to know how Blizzard spends their money. I said:
Probably the revenue generated by Blizzard goes into the big Blizzard Pot, and then distributed to the Budgets of the games/projects/departments. As that is afaik the common thing that happens at companies.


*Laugh* That thought alone is priceless.


Sure, thats a sane way to look at it. But that also tells you that if Blizzard sells some Assets in the Store as Transmogs/Mounts it will in return make the overall revenue of WoW larger, which in return most likely increases the Budget of the WoW department.

Same goes with the 6 Month Promotion, while it overall generates less money than when everyone only has 1Month Subs. It generates a larger "Guranteed" revenue.
That maens the budget can again be higher with less risks.


Sure, they could do alot of things. But there is only a certain amount of capacity, and I would think some higher ups above the Artists need to think about the Financial Budgets and how to keep them where they are and/or increase them. While managing the Capacity Budgets.

Basically, I assume the revenue generated by the Store is (at least thats what I would do) calculated to make the Budged for the entire team Larger, without taking to much away. That means they (Ass Pulled Numbers) 10% of their Capacity, to ensure they can use 20% more Capacity.

I agree, that it's financially beneficial and self sustaining thing to do. No doubt on that. As an investor or business that would only make sense for me. It's an untapped store potential.
I just don't believe, and I hope I am wrong, that they will use profit for art team financing or other team support. It's more about better figures at the end of the month while I do believe they will reinvest the profit somewhere, most of that will go to shareholders and will better looking quarterly report. Might be a bit cynical of me tho because it's how a lot of corporate companies work now and I am a bit biased against "suits" managing production.

[LanToaster]

And I disagree with that, Blizzard as a company doesnt have to push in-game shops to pay their employees salaries.

And where do you think the Money to pay their Employees comes from? Right, the Consumers.

Now, I dont know if you are capable of following, but lets make this real Quick:
If we Assume, wow has 3,85 Million active Subscriptions / Month. That is a Revenue of 50Mio.$/month. Lets say half of that goes into the development of WoW.
That means WoW would have a Budget of 25Mio.$ / Month to work with. That means Blizzard can pay a certain amount of People to work on WoW.
Now, if we were to say take 1Million/Month from that to create a Content for the Store. Lets say every 3 Month they add a Store Item for 20$.
Now, that would mean Blizzard Generates per StoreItem 75Million$, we substract 3Million for the Store Content. That leaves 72 Million.
Now, if only 10% of the Players buy that Item, Blizzard earns another 7,7 Million Dollar. Which is More than what was Spend.

Which in Return means, with the act of adding the Occasional Store Item, the Budged of WoW can be Increased, which in return means Blizzard can pay either their Employees more, or increase the size of the team. (Or prevent the Decrease of the Team if you hop on recent layoffs, where you dont know why they happend)

(Obviously for the smartasses, this is a very dumbed down Example, and probably nowhere near that amount of Money flows back into Development, but I would need to work for Blizzard to make accurate numbers, its an example nothing more to illustrate that "More Money is better than Less Money")

[czarek]

You think you do but you don't.

[LanToaster]

I agree, that it's financially beneficial and self sustaining thing to do. No doubt on that. As an investor or business that would only make sense for me. It's an untapped store potential.
I just don't believe, and I hope I am wrong, that they will use profit for art team financing or other team support. It's more about better figures at the end of the month while I do believe they will reinvest the profit somewhere, most of that will go to shareholders and will better looking quarterly report. Might be a bit cynical of me tho because it's how a lot of corporate companies work now and I am a bit biased against "suits" managing production.

I wouldnt even go to say its Cynical, its realistic, and you are most likely not wrong with the Majority going somewhere where it doesnt benefit us the consumers at all.

But again, my point is, even if only 1% of the overall Revenue generated of the Store Sales and Subscriptons go back into WoW, 1% of a 1000 is still better, than 1% of 100. And I´m shocked that so many people dont seem to grasp that. They think the Extra Money generated by the Extra sales goes Poof, "And its Gone"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg

One needs to be Realistic, sure I would also like to get more Content for my 13$/Month, but thats not how the world works. I get for my 13$/Month exactly that which its worth to the Contract Partner, and if i´m unhappy about it, I can always take it somewhere else.

[Baneto]

And where do you think the Money to pay their Employees comes from? Right, the Consumers.

Now, I dont know if you are capable of following, but lets make this real Quick:
If we Assume, wow has 3,85 Million active Subscriptions / Month. That is a Revenue of 50Mio.$/month. Lets say half of that goes into the development of WoW.
That means WoW would have a Budget of 25Mio.$ / Month to work with. That means Blizzard can pay a certain amount of People to work on WoW.
Now, if we were to say take 1Million/Month from that to create a Content for the Store. Lets say every 3 Month they add a Store Item for 20$.
Now, that would mean Blizzard Generates per StoreItem 75Million$, we substract 3Million for the Store Content. That leaves 72 Million.
Now, if only 10% of the Players buy that Item, Blizzard earns another 7,7 Million Dollar. Which is More than what was Spend.

Which in Return means, with the act of adding the Occasional Store Item, the Budged of WoW can be Increased, which in return means Blizzard can pay either their Employees more, or increase the size of the team. (Or prevent the Decrease of the Team if you hop on recent layoffs, where you dont know why they happend)

(Obviously for the smartasses, this is a very dumbed down Example, and probably nowhere near that amount of Money flows back into Development, but I would need to work for Blizzard to make accurate numbers, its an example nothing more to illustrate that "More Money is better than Less Money")

I read up until you started to use insults, the subs pay the employees.

There is something as microtransactions, but AV/Blizzard says fuck it and starts with macrotransactions instead.
And people like you open up your mouths and eat that poop like its ice-cream and thank them for it.

There is no need to act like an unpayed lawyer for them mate.

[LanToaster]

I read up until you started to use insults, the subs pay the employees.

I´m sorry you feel insulted.

[loras]

If you buy and / or use WoW tokens for Game time and / or Blizzard Balance - You should legally not be allowed to whine over the in-game store existing / having items added too it. You are just fueling the system you supposedly "Hate" - You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also: While on that topic - What is even the fuss about the game store about? I am a Mount Collector and I'm hardly fazed by there being mounts at the store. Comparing the WoW game store to so many other MMORPGS out there makes the WoW one seem like a kindergarden project; it's harmless. There is NO pay to win elements as no mount, transmog or battle pet will give you an in-game advantage. (Yeah I know Lil'Rags is a decent battle pet but he is nowhere near the best, nor does he break the system)

In addition to that; All of the items on the game store is TOTALLY obtainable via in-game activities. You get your gold, you turn it into a token and you convert that to currency. Like how is this missing people's head?

Seeing folks shout "70 DOLLARS / EUROS FOR A MOUNT / TRANSMOG?!" Is also just absurd, it's 70 $ / € for SIX MONTHS OF GAME TIME IN ADDITION TO (Insert whatever Blizz will include with the 6 month sub in the future)

But yeah, if you add fuel to the system you hate - Then screw you, your argument is invalid. If you use tokens; you should not whine in any way over whatever the heck Blizz adds to the game store (As long as it remains purely cosmetic and nothing stupid like "Pay not for a full set of the most recent raid gear" is added)

Yet while on that note. Ya'll know WoW can be played for free now after purchase yeah? Thanks to those tokens? Surely a lot of people is doing that. And Blizzard despite being under Activision's wing (Activision which clearly wants WoW to die so they can have the people working on it focus on things like Hearthstone and Overwatch where there is still money being made for some reason) They still got employees to pay, despite that they seem to go in + on the quarterly earnings calls we see: A lot of people seem to think that a in-game store is only justified if your company is going in minus or is barely breaking even. Are you folks just that ignorant? I guess there is a reason you are sitting here complaining about Brightwing being flayed for a transmog as opposed to taking it for what it is and rather unsubbing or moving on with your life.

Thanks. I'll see some of you in court since surely someone got offended to the point of feeling like I personally attacked them while standing firm on that if you buy and / or use WoW Tokens to any degree; You should shut the heck up about anything in-game store related.

First off: the moment someone says "Let us all at least agree to this:" my first reaction is "Nah" (not necessarily implying I disagree mind you), but let's see what your post entails.

"Legally" not be allowed? Come on now, this isn't anything where law, either written or unwritten, is genuinely appliccable.

I don't mind the cash shop per se and do not use it, but what i do like about is how it gives proper perspective on mounts that cost obscene amounts of gold and reveals Blizzard's excuses for "combatting inflation" to be little more than more than simple greed coated in thin deception (and the ones who indulge or even defend them as no different from the whales that blight any free to play game).
The downside to this however is that Blizzard too has become more aware of the gold prices and their equivalent real money prices, thus incentivising them to raise prices. That is a negative aspect of the in-game shop that is something that everyone should criticise, regardless of whether or not they make use of the shop.

[Lolites]

i wouldn't mind the cash store if it didn't so obviously take away from game content

it doesnt... at all...

[Baneto]

it doesnt... at all...

How does it not? They put things that could already be accessible in the game behind a paywall for a game you already pay for monthly.

[Lolites]

Why would you not be for them adding content to the actual game aquirable by gold/achievements instead of a cheap $$$ store.

yeah, bcs there is terrible lack of new transmog/mounts/pets viable ingame...

i would agree if we get just bit more mounts ingame than on shop, but we literaly have hundreds of mounts ingame, and even more pets and transmogs...
and its not like visuals are bad bcs they made shop mounts, visual side is always great, its other areas like content or systems that is lacking, and people who do mounts have fuck all to do with that...

[Baneto]

yeah, bcs there is terrible lack of new transmog/mounts/pets viable ingame...

i would agree if we get just bit more mounts ingame than on shop, but we literaly have hundreds of mounts ingame, and even more pets and transmogs...
and its not like visuals are bad bcs they made shop mounts, visual side is always great, its other areas like content or systems that is lacking, and people who do mounts have fuck all to do with that...

So then there is no reason not to put the mounts/items in the game and make an interesting way / questline or achievement to acquire them.

[Lolites]

You have a strong opinion, since you're writing essays to defend the in-game store, I'd give you that.

But the rest? Not so much, trying to act clever and portray yourself as "having a brain" for having an opinion just makes you look stupid.

but his "opinion" on this is correct, NO BUSINES EVER would put more resources into something that will not bring them more revenue (unless they want to throw away money), simple as that, and dont tell me if they put beautiful mount behind achievment for some trivial shit like10k wq people would flock to the game, bcs thats just bullshit... if they added some real content, sure, but that would lure players even without mount as a reward...

- - - Updated - - -

So then there is no reason not to put the mounts/items in the game and make an interesting way / questline or achievement to acquire them.

if they make interesting content they dont need to put mount as a reward... and if they have no interesting content what would they do with mount to increase revenue? put it on gold vendor like so many other mounts? yeah that will sure bring players...

- - - Updated - - -

How does it not? They put things that could already be accessible in the game behind a paywall for a game you already pay for monthly.

they would not exist... they are made for the very purpose of selling them, they dont just make them and decide then...
doing something that would cost you resources and brings NOTHING in return is the surest way how to bankrupt your company in long run...

[Baneto]

but his "opinion" on this is correct, NO BUSINES EVER would put more resources into something that will not bring them more revenue (unless they want to throw away money), simple as that, and dont tell me if they put beautiful mount behind achievment for some trivial shit like10k wq people would flock to the game, bcs thats just bullshit... if they added some real content, sure, but that would lure players even without mount as a reward...

As a Activision/Blizzard-shill he is correct, in all other sense he is not.

if they make interesting content they dont need to put mount as a reward... and if they have no interesting content what would they do with mount to increase revenue? put it on gold vendor like so many other mounts? yeah that will sure bring players...

So now youre arguing that mounts shouldnt be rewarded in-game? What? Only put them on the store so AB can profit?

Are you even aware of what you are arguing for? A worse game overall.

[Lolites]

As a Activision/Blizzard-shill he is correct, in all other sense he is not.

as a person using brain he is right, so i might understand why you have problems understanding it...

So now youre arguing that mounts shouldnt be rewarded in-game? What? Only put them on the store so AB can profit?

there are HUNDRREDS of mounts ingame, HOW THE HELL would game be better if they add few more? especialy if they were literaly just put on gold vendor?

i know what im arguing for, you obviously dont... but crazy people shouldnt be argued with, so sure, you are right... ill just put you to ignore, your dreamland "argument" are not worth my time

[Lurker1]

If this is about the new set for the ingame store i have zero interest in it.

[Baneto]

as a person using brain he is right, so i might understand why you have problems understanding it...



there are HUNDRREDS of mounts ingame, HOW THE HELL would game be better if they add few more? especialy if they were literaly just put on gold vendor?

i know what im arguing for, you obviously dont... but crazy people shouldnt be argued with, so sure, you are right... ill just put you to ignore, your dreamland "argument" are not worth my time

Seemingly hard for you to grasp, but not all share your opinion on this, so maybe pipe down on your attitude and use your own brain instead of using ad hominems as soon as someone challenges your world-view and opinions.

How would the game be better if they added more mounts? Of course it would improve, look at all the completionists and collectors in the game.
They dont need to put everything on a vendor, there are plenty of interesting ways they could add mounts and items to the game.

I'll put you on the shill-list as well dont worry, its all mutual here.

[Thelyron]

If you ever gave Blizzard a single cent of your money outside of game costs and subs, your opinion on anything in life is completely worthless.

[Thage]

Mudcrab did a good job of debunking the OP, but allow me to bring up something I mentioned in a previous thread for everyone who keeps claiming the cash shop is necessary for Blizzard to pay the bills:

Now, without including token sales (which amount to an additional $5 per month over the month-to-month subscription, to say nothing of people using them to acquire b.net balance at a ratio of one dollar earned for every two dollars the token cost), a hilariously-low underestimation of 500k subscribers, and another unrealistic lowball by assuming every paying player does the six-month subscription (which, again, ignores players who pay with gold, or low-or-fixed-income players who can afford fifteen a month but can't easily justify over $100 block payments), that maps out to 6.5 million or so a month in revenue. 70 million a year. That's just off WoW subscriptions, with multiple severe lowballed estimates.

That doesn't reflect sales off Overwatch loot boxes, Hearthstone booster packs (which you're huffing paint if you don't think they're making insane amounts of money off both), box sales for Overwatch and WoW, and whatever pittance they're still making off Heroes of the Storm. Again, we're talking 70 million annually, off of what's probably a sliver of the actual player base, just because I want to drive a point home.

If your company is in dire financial straits just off $70 million in annual revenue, when you already pay below industry standard for a game development studio (and game development studios already pay below industry standard for software development as-is), there is something significantly wrong with your budget allocation and it's no surprise Activision's financial overlords swept in and began tightening the belt.

Buuuuut here's the thing: Blizzard is in no way, shape, or form in any kind of dire financial straits, because, again, I laughably lowballed WoW's subscription revenue, and left out the company's other major moneymakers before figuring in WoW's cash shop. They don't need the cash shop to 'pay the bills' or whatever other corpo-apologist rhetoric you want to spin. They do it because they saw the revenue stream games like Lineage II enjoy with their cash shop and decided, like most AAA game studios did, that they wanted all the money, and thanks to surging profits shortly after the cash shop's introduction, they're stuck in a situation where investors demand unending growth every quarter despite it ultimately an unsustainable model (at least at the pace they're demanding growth out of ATVI). And the harder they push the cash shop, the sooner we're going to hit the point where their growth bubble can't be sustained anymore, a problem the entire AAA industry is coming up on hard because every company can't earn all the money, it's just not feasible from any kind of realistic estimate.

[Lolites]

Mudcrab did a good job of debunking the OP, but allow me to bring up something I mentioned in a previous thread for everyone who keeps claiming the cash shop is necessary for Blizzard to pay the bills

i dont think its necessary to pay bills, but its necessary to increase revenue, which is after all the reason of existence of ANY business...
and they could go two ways about it: 1. increase sub, and make EVERYONE pay, or 2. introduce token to get people to play without spending money and introduce microtransactions so only people who WANT TO will pay...
i think the choice they made is better for both business and customers