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  1. #1

    Do people genuinely think the Horde is evil?

    Don't get me wrong, I know during WCI & II the Horde were the bad guys. Since Vanilla however the Horde were depicted as a group of exiles banding together to survive (something I really liked!). Beyond PvP the conflict was mostly border disputes until Cataclysm. Granted Garrosh became a War Criminal but he was cast out by the Horde. Now obviously Sylvanas is evil and I agree Blizzard did a terrible job regarding the Horde throughout BfA, BUT do people genuinely believe that the Horde were always evil?

    Personally I play both factions so naturally have seen the good, the bad and the ugly side from both sides.

  2. #2
    Honestly I don't see Horde or Alliance, I just see individual races. This arbitary division into Horde and Alliance is the most forced thing ever and exists only because of gameplay purposes. No, I don't think Horde is evil.

  3. #3
    You tell me, they committed genocide.
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  4. #4
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    What else do you call a faction that assists their leader in committing genocide and is perfectly fine to continue following them afterwards?

    It feels like Thrall being Warchief was the only thing keeping them in check from WC3-WotLK, when Garrosh became chief in cata they went full warcrimes and never looked back... Even during WoD when Voljin was warchief they waged an unprovoked preemptive war against the Alliance in Ashran over unsubstantiated paranoia that the Alliance were going to attack them with some powerful artifact that they didn't even have, during a time when, straight out of the mouths of NPCs in the area, the Alliance and Horde had a peace treaty in effect.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2020-10-24 at 06:45 PM.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by bagina View Post
    Honestly I don't see Horde or Alliance, I just see individual races. This arbitary division into Horde and Alliance is the most forced thing ever and exists only because of gameplay purposes. No, I don't think Horde is evil.
    I mean I agree, it's unfortunate WoW has factions

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    You tell me, they committed genocide.
    I mean Genocide is subjective to the point of view. Alliance was willing to commit genocide with the tauren, the purge of Dalaran, Lordaeron, and against other races. The Horde have also opposed genocide as seen in Stonetalon. Both Teldrassil and Theramore led to Horde rebellion too.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDragon View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I know during WCI & II the Horde were the bad guys. Since Vanilla however the Horde were depicted as a group of exiles banding together to survive (something I really liked!). Beyond PvP the conflict was mostly border disputes until Cataclysm. Granted Garrosh became a War Criminal but he was cast out by the Horde. Now obviously Sylvanas is evil and I agree Blizzard did a terrible job regarding the Horde throughout BfA, BUT do people genuinely believe that the Horde were always evil?

    Personally I play both factions so naturally have seen the good, the bad and the ugly side from both sides.
    The horde (WoW faction-incarnation ofc.) was as good or evil as their warchief which meant that in practice it was good-evil-good-evil (arguably early Garrosh was neutral, but overal his character turned out evil).

    Which is why i dig the idea of a council, i think it just works better for races that are less inclined to tend between good and neutral and cover more of the moral spectrum.

    Though at present the horde does kinda need to take a reconciliatory tone if it wants to be viewed as sorta neutral potential allies of convenience again by the alliance (which, i believe, is part of the reason that the shadowlands basically leaves the factions behind for now; it wouldn't believable to have factions actively and unforcedly cooperate against a world ending threat currently).
    Last edited by loras; 2020-10-24 at 06:56 PM.
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  7. #7
    NO !

    In Warcraft, both sides are neutral.
    That is why you have neutral heroes to help both sides.

  8. #8
    commit genocide with the tauren
    I assume this is a reference to Camp T, the rallying cry of the Horde fans trying to defend their actions. This one at least holds water as an unprovoked attack.

    the purge of Dalaran
    The actions of one woman, serving a neutral organization that used an Alliance city as it's capital. She gave them the option of leaving as well lest you forget. It's called the purge because she removed them, not the massacre of Dalaran.

    Lordaeron
    Which time? The time that the Alliance attacked for payback for the Wrathgate or the time the Alliance attacked for payback of burning the tree?



    It's fine if you like the Horde, and it's Blizzards fault that the writing has shifted in recent years, but they're 100 percent the "bad" faction now.

  9. #9
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    Isn't everyone a little evil in fantasy worlds? Or atleast morally ambiguous..
    Neither the Horde or Alliance are good nor evil in my opinion if you see that you're only looking at one thing, one event, not the whole picture

  10. #10
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    If you asked me before BFA I would say no, but after how they just went with the flow in Sylvanas's death to everyone tour it tells me the core of the Horde is just as bad as the Horde was back in the original Warcraft days...they're vicious and blood thirsty

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    I assume this is a reference to Camp T, the rallying cry of the Horde fans trying to defend their actions. This one at least holds water as an unprovoked attack.



    The actions of one woman, serving a neutral organization that used an Alliance city as it's capital. She gave them the option of leaving as well lest you forget. It's called the purge because she removed them, not the massacre of Dalaran.



    Which time? The time that the Alliance attacked for payback for the Wrathgate or the time the Alliance attacked for payback of burning the tree?



    It's fine if you like the Horde, and it's Blizzards fault that the writing has shifted in recent years, but they're 100 percent the "bad" faction now.
    If they were 100% the bad guys we wouldn't have had an expansion involving the Horde undermining Sylvanas and ending with the Horde ousting Sylvanas and her fanatics. Yes they have committed bad deeds, especially throughout BfA (which made no logical sense from a consistent writing pov)

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDragon View Post
    I mean I agree, it's unfortunate WoW has factions

    - - - Updated - - -



    I mean Genocide is subjective to the point of view. Alliance was willing to commit genocide with the tauren, the purge of Dalaran, Lordaeron, and against other races. The Horde have also opposed genocide as seen in Stonetalon. Both Teldrassil and Theramore led to Horde rebellion too.
    ...The purge of Dalaran? That's like claiming Theramore was a genocide because it targetted all those belonging to a subfaction of human.
    Nor did the alliance do anything (morally) wrong in Lordaeron; they literally spared the Undercity once (forced by Jaina admittedly) and the second time all unwarranted destruction was squarely to blame on the forsaken leader turning it into a blighted deathtrap.

    Also camp taurajo was one battle by defectors no less, it was nothing close to anything genocidal.

    So no good sir, subjectivity provides no cover for your poor understanding and/or definitions of genocide.
    Last edited by loras; 2020-10-24 at 07:05 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenogear3 View Post
    NO !

    In Warcraft, both sides are neutral.
    That is why you have neutral heroes to help both sides.
    To me players character exist alongside the Factions, we aren't really "their" soldiers but we will flock to their banner if called upon and if we do so agree

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDragon View Post
    If they were 100% the bad guys we wouldn't have had an expansion involving the Horde undermining Sylvanas and ending with the Horde ousting Sylvanas and her fanatics. Yes they have committed bad deeds, especially throughout BfA (which made no logical sense from a consistent writing pov)
    Did you not play the War Campaign? Sylvanas had overwhelming popular support until the very end, when she abdicated as Warchief. The people of the Horde were perfectly fine with following a genocidal psycho.

    The funny thing is that Sylvanas wasn't even successful, because it was mentioned that the Alliance tightened its grip and was posed to end the war after the Battle of Dazar'alor, to the point that even Nathanos believed it was only a matter of weeks before an Alliance victory. So you can't even say "Well, the Horde people follow Sylvanas because she brings them victory", because she almost led them to defeat.
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  15. #15
    Well...yeah. Horde is the bad guys of WoW.

    It's like asking a star wars fan "do you see the sith as evil?". Come on
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  16. #16
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    Blizzard turning the Horde evil twice pretty much destroys the entire narrative and purpose of Warcraft 3
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

    I make Warcraft 3 Reforged HD custom models and I'm also an HD model reviewer.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDragon View Post
    If they were 100% the bad guys we wouldn't have had an expansion involving the Horde undermining Sylvanas and ending with the Horde ousting Sylvanas and her fanatics. Yes they have committed bad deeds, especially throughout BfA (which made no logical sense from a consistent writing pov)
    It's that way because this is a faction based game that has to try to appease both sides of the coin. If it were not, there is no reason the Horde wouldn't have been wiped off the map multiple times in the last several expansions.

    UC could have been leveled at the end of Wrathgate
    Orgrimmar could have been leveled at the end of SoO.
    The Vindicaar could have destroyed anything from low orbit since it's arrived in the game.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakhath View Post
    It's that way because this is a faction based game that has to try to appease both sides of the coin. If it were not, there is no reason the Horde wouldn't have been wiped off the map multiple times in the last several expansions.

    UC could have been leveled at the end of Wrathgate
    Orgrimmar could have been leveled at the end of SoO.
    The Vindicaar could have destroyed anything from low orbit since it's arrived in the game.
    Touché.

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  19. #19
    yea they burn trees

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    What else do you call a faction that assists their leader in committing genocide and is perfectly fine to continue following them afterwards?
    Hmmm.. So Gilnean breaking up with the alliance because Lordaeron refused to commit a genocide agains orc, and the alliance and the kirin tor trying one against high elves are then evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernDragon View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I know during WCI & II the Horde were the bad guys. Since Vanilla however the Horde were depicted as a group of exiles banding together to survive (something I really liked!). Beyond PvP the conflict was mostly border disputes until Cataclysm. Granted Garrosh became a War Criminal but he was cast out by the Horde. Now obviously Sylvanas is evil and I agree Blizzard did a terrible job regarding the Horde throughout BfA, BUT do people genuinely believe that the Horde were always evil?

    Personally I play both factions so naturally have seen the good, the bad and the ugly side from both sides.
    I played forsaken because they were assholes. And blood elves later because they also were assholes. I might have played human also if they have stayed assholes.
    Some people don't like to play a random good prince from a child fairytale and like people with convictions other than "being good is nice"
    Last edited by Tarba; 2020-10-24 at 07:13 PM.

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