Would Sylvanas have beaten Arthas as easily?

[Tyrannica]

Sylvanas is pumped with Jailer's power.
Arthas Lich King was Jailer's hand puppet.
They wouldn't fight.
Sylvanas attacked Bolvar, because he constantly resisted and was not under Jailers control. And this is also why he was not really strong. Just some old helmet power leftovers, without ongoing Death Realm connection.

Yeah, because of this, OP's question does not make sense...

[Alanar]

it's a hit or miss with this tbh, they could be on the same level, as Arthas was powerful with the amount of people he had killed and who's souls frostmourne had taken, bolvar didn't do any of that and pretty much came out of the ice as the SL cinematic happened. Sylvanas had done the same as arthas but in a different way, the more people died the more stronger she became.

the one advantage i can see which could sway in either direction is the psyche of Sylvanas, would she be enraged upon seeing him? or start whimpering because of what he put her through, the former could embolden her to beat him, while the later could shatter her psyche and leave her a quivering mess

Good point.. her rage is her problem. The fight with Varok also ended very.. quickly for her... kinda threw her oen glass by saying the horde is nothing.

I think her temper could have been arthas hes advantages fer sure.

[Terongor]

They acted like zombies and they are literally dead. That's better?

Again. Warlocks use BOTH THE FEL AND THE Void. You are trying to prove to me that this guy uses ONLY fel and with the help of FEL summons FEL creatures. You are entangled in your lies.

So give me the official definition of God in WOV.

Azshara easily shattered the Pillar of Creation. So the Pillars of Creation are vulnerable to Arcane? And I'm still waiting how the LIFE artifact was able to activate the LIGHT artifact?

I already forgot why we argue about anime, please remind me.

How did you determine what is the unattainable level of power for the Aspects? How did you decide that they shouldn't necessarily be stronger than Archimonde?

This is what makes her bad. It's one thing when you have to send them to death with a heavy heart, and another when you absolutely don't care that they will die. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q67Upjq7H8
19 40
Enjoy. Although this has since been changed and now all souls have a chance at redemption in Revendreth.

What makes you even think that Garrosh's sins were atoned for? Kael'thas died much earlier and is still in Revendreth.

You can believe what you want. Also, her unused line suggests that she has blessed her dragons for this battle. What's the difference? I would be grateful if you threw me two different NPCs, a drake and a dragon.

Then don't start an argument at all if you can't provide evidence. But yes, we need more information on the Emerald Dream and its connection to Ardenweald.

How did you define Mannoroth's military experience? I mean, yes, he has fought countless wars, but how did you determine that there were warriors powerful enough on other planets for Mannoroth to have this reflex? Remember that he is a powerful enough demon and can easily kill whoever attacks him without any fight.

They are possessed by parasite meaning its not a zombie.

We have seen in broken Shore demon dominating elementals with fel and were it was stated they used void?

We only have that titans aren't god and you are arguing what blizzard have said twice that titans aren't gods.

It was on the point that artifacts or people blessed or created by the titans can be strong on the attack but extremely weak when tacking damage IIRC.

If you don't remember or be bothered to read our earlier messages you really should be arguing.

I'm not saying its unobtainable level just that what they do after depicts they strength to be less.

So you cry everytime you kill a bug?

Knowingly offered slavery to his race much like gul'dan while garrosh would have kept them free and they call him a work horse its used in english for people or animals who are pushed until they die.

Again unused aren't Canon..... if they were rommath would have betrayed silvermoon and joined twilights Hammer in cata.

Its a point about that its not confirmed as arguments can be started poke holes in "accepted truths" not give answers.

Knowing his sadistic nature and how he toyes with his kills its typical for such individuals to pretend they are weaker and fight handicapped Knowing they could easily kill nearly anyone as such its most likely he has the experience and there could easily have being worthy enemies like void creatures and aldrachi.

[darkoms]

They are possessed by parasite meaning its not a zombie.

We have seen in broken Shore demon dominating elementals with fel and were it was stated they used void?

We only have that titans aren't god and you are arguing what blizzard have said twice that titans aren't gods.

It was on the point that artifacts or people blessed or created by the titans can be strong on the attack but extremely weak when tacking damage IIRC.

If you don't remember or be bothered to read our earlier messages you really should be arguing.

I'm not saying its unobtainable level just that what they do after depicts they strength to be less.

So you cry everytime you kill a bug?

Knowingly offered slavery to his race much like gul'dan while garrosh would have kept them free and they call him a work horse its used in english for people or animals who are pushed until they die.

Again unused aren't Canon..... if they were rommath would have betrayed silvermoon and joined twilights Hammer in cata.

Its a point about that its not confirmed as arguments can be started poke holes in "accepted truths" not give answers.

Knowing his sadistic nature and how he toyes with his kills its typical for such individuals to pretend they are weaker and fight handicapped Knowing they could easily kill nearly anyone as such its most likely he has the experience and there could easily have being worthy enemies like void creatures and aldrachi.

They are resurrected by the power of Life. But if you don't like this example, we can remember Krasus who knew how to lift corpses.

I do not understand anything. Why did you even say that? Yes, elementals can be tamed with Fel, and? What do you mean was said? Do you expect Chris Metzen to personally tell you that the boss who summons the Void BEINGS is using the Void? You just don't want to admit your mistake because of your ego. Grow up. Also, this whole dispute began because you said that the creatures of the Titans would not use blood magic, but now you are foaming at the mouth to prove that they use the Fel.

Give me the definition of the word "god" in Warcraft and tell me why I can't call Titans gods. Titans are godlike, which means that if it's convenient for me, I can call them gods because this does not contradict lore in any way. Titans, void lords, Elune, Mumbling, I can call them all gods because of their immense power. We do not have a separate race of gods with which the Titans can be confused, so calling them gods does not contradict lore. You have lost the argument on all other points and now you want to win at least somewhere, so you start an argument over such a trifle. As I said, grow up. You know perfectly well that you cannot argue with me and that you do not have enough lore knowledge to do this, but you desperately do not want to admit defeat.

You have not answered any of my questions in any way. By your logic, the Tears of Elune does not show Xavius's strength in any way, it's just a vulnerable artifact. And I will ask again. how was the LIFE artifact able to activate the LIGHT artifact?

It’s not my fault that you don’t reply within 3 weeks (or I, because you know, is banned for telling Arthas fans that their character is not as cool as they think). You are not the only person to whom I explain lore so I can forget the topic of the dispute and I am too lazy to look on other pages about what we argued initially.

Where exactly did they show that their strength would be less? Yes, Malfurion is MUCH weaker in game than in the books, but the Aspects do not show such a loss of strength, they are all at the same level.

No, I cry every time my pet dies. If you are not, then it's no surprise that you like Sylvanas.

Kael'thas went mad and Kil'jaeden was seducing him. Kael'thas did it more out of his insanity than because he was bad. And he really wanted to save his people. It is quite difficult to push someone to death when they are already dead. Garrosh has a lot of anima, but it's not infinite.

You are confusing the cut plot and the phrase in a raid that really came out and that actually has Alexstrasza. For example, in the raid The Emerald Nightmare, these phrases were cut
Xavius: Yes, my son. It is your father, Malorne. Do not trust these invaders. You must purge them from the Dream.

Although this phrase complements this phrase
Cenarius yells: Father? Father, is that you?
Cenarius yells: Yes, father! I will not fail you!

This does not contradict the lore and it is not clear why it was removed.

Once again, don't argue about something you can't prove. We can endlessly shift the burden of proof onto each other and say that the other must prove or disprove something in the lore.

That is, again, just assumptions? He may be a sadist, but he is also a destroyer. He just crashes into the battlefield and starts carnage. We have no idea if Mannoroth fought such battles. Again, just theories.

[Terongor]

They are resurrected by the power of Life. But if you don't like this example, we can remember Krasus who knew how to lift corpses.

I do not understand anything. Why did you even say that? Yes, elementals can be tamed with Fel, and? What do you mean was said? Do you expect Chris Metzen to personally tell you that the boss who summons the Void BEINGS is using the Void? You just don't want to admit your mistake because of your ego. Grow up. Also, this whole dispute began because you said that the creatures of the Titans would not use blood magic, but now you are foaming at the mouth to prove that they use the Fel.

Give me the definition of the word "god" in Warcraft and tell me why I can't call Titans gods. Titans are godlike, which means that if it's convenient for me, I can call them gods because this does not contradict lore in any way. Titans, void lords, Elune, Mumbling, I can call them all gods because of their immense power. We do not have a separate race of gods with which the Titans can be confused, so calling them gods does not contradict lore. You have lost the argument on all other points and now you want to win at least somewhere, so you start an argument over such a trifle. As I said, grow up. You know perfectly well that you cannot argue with me and that you do not have enough lore knowledge to do this, but you desperately do not want to admit defeat.

You have not answered any of my questions in any way. By your logic, the Tears of Elune does not show Xavius's strength in any way, it's just a vulnerable artifact. And I will ask again. how was the LIFE artifact able to activate the LIGHT artifact?

It’s not my fault that you don’t reply within 3 weeks (or I, because you know, is banned for telling Arthas fans that their character is not as cool as they think). You are not the only person to whom I explain lore so I can forget the topic of the dispute and I am too lazy to look on other pages about what we argued initially.

Where exactly did they show that their strength would be less? Yes, Malfurion is MUCH weaker in game than in the books, but the Aspects do not show such a loss of strength, they are all at the same level.

No, I cry every time my pet dies. If you are not, then it's no surprise that you like Sylvanas.

Kael'thas went mad and Kil'jaeden was seducing him. Kael'thas did it more out of his insanity than because he was bad. And he really wanted to save his people. It is quite difficult to push someone to death when they are already dead. Garrosh has a lot of anima, but it's not infinite.

You are confusing the cut plot and the phrase in a raid that really came out and that actually has Alexstrasza. For example, in the raid The Emerald Nightmare, these phrases were cut
Xavius: Yes, my son. It is your father, Malorne. Do not trust these invaders. You must purge them from the Dream.

Although this phrase complements this phrase
Cenarius yells: Father? Father, is that you?
Cenarius yells: Yes, father! I will not fail you!

This does not contradict the lore and it is not clear why it was removed.

Once again, don't argue about something you can't prove. We can endlessly shift the burden of proof onto each other and say that the other must prove or disprove something in the lore.

That is, again, just assumptions? He may be a sadist, but he is also a destroyer. He just crashes into the battlefield and starts carnage. We have no idea if Mannoroth fought such battles. Again, just theories.

They are not in anyway themselfs its More like parasite takas control of the body and starts causing it work so not comperable to necromancy.

Again he used term "chaos" tied to fel, used wlock abilities and in current lore we have no indication of wlocks using void more enslaving it. We were talking about what was anima meaning was it life or death magic which titans would use.

As blizzard said they are not gods but godlike do yeah it contradicts the lore.

And how was I saying xavius was strong again?

And its not my fault my brother died 4 weeks ago.....

As ingame they were showed to be much weaker like malygos with all the powers of nexus at his disposal losed to pcs in wotlk.

For starters I hate pets.... also why would I cry for things which I don't have emotional connection with. Like nobody who doens't know me or my family irl or care for me wouldn't give two shits for my brothers death.

And Blizzard said MU garrosh was the worst version or one of the worst and in shadowlands apperantly join as one so how is that fair for the "hordes greatest hero garrosh" with blizz opening that hole this gets just weirder.

There still was implication for that ingame with what cenarius said whole there was no implication remaining of alexs being in the fight personally.

Proved what I needed that existing lore leaves it as possibility not anything else I never said we knew more just that there is a possibility.

And he is a flayer as well do you know what flaying is and even though its just a theory he has most likeĺy trained in combat for some of that time and we have weaponmasters in history who had the same reflexes without being in battlefields in short 20-40years which are short for Mannoroth lifespan.

[darkoms]

They are not in anyway themselfs its More like parasite takas control of the body and starts causing it work so not comperable to necromancy.

Again he used term "chaos" tied to fel, used wlock abilities and in current lore we have no indication of wlocks using void more enslaving it. We were talking about what was anima meaning was it life or death magic which titans would use.

As blizzard said they are not gods but godlike do yeah it contradicts the lore.

And how was I saying xavius was strong again?

And its not my fault my brother died 4 weeks ago.....

As ingame they were showed to be much weaker like malygos with all the powers of nexus at his disposal losed to pcs in wotlk.

For starters I hate pets.... also why would I cry for things which I don't have emotional connection with. Like nobody who doens't know me or my family irl or care for me wouldn't give two shits for my brothers death.

And Blizzard said MU garrosh was the worst version or one of the worst and in shadowlands apperantly join as one so how is that fair for the "hordes greatest hero garrosh" with blizz opening that hole this gets just weirder.

There still was implication for that ingame with what cenarius said whole there was no implication remaining of alexs being in the fight personally.

Proved what I needed that existing lore leaves it as possibility not anything else I never said we knew more just that there is a possibility.

And he is a flayer as well do you know what flaying is and even though its just a theory he has most likeĺy trained in combat for some of that time and we have weaponmasters in history who had the same reflexes without being in battlefields in short 20-40years which are short for Mannoroth lifespan.

Maybe. In any case, Krasus' example is still canon.

You still haven't explained to me how he summoned creatures of the Void without using the Void. No, you said that the creatures of the titans are too noble (or something) to use such dirty magic as blood magic, and now you are trying to prove to me that Setesh used the Fel (although in those days chaos had nothing to do with the Fel, this is the boss the time of the Cataclysm, before the Chronicles another 5 years).

No, because you do not have a separate race of gods in Warcraft. Again, you run out of arguments and cling to words. Childish behavior.

You tried to prove that Elune's Tear is a Life artifact and that it is therefore so vulnerable to the forces of Xavius ​​(as well as the forces of Nightmare).

Sorry i didn't know

As for me, everything is fine. Malygos lost against the Red Dragons and Alexstrasza.

But Sylvanas knew her subordinates, didn't she? She could look them in the face and send them to slaughter. I understand that it is not productive for an army general to cry for every one killed, but she just didn't give a damn. She did not see them as soldiers and as proud defenders of their country. She viewed them like arrows in a quiver. Her arrows in her quiver.

I have no idea why you said that. Danuser was saying bullshit about these threads in Verek again, but I guess I ONLY SUPPOSE that the version of the main timeline matters more than the AU versions. We know that there is only one true timeline (Aman'tul said this to Nozdormu) and that all the other branches are just streams of one big river (Chronicle 3).

The Chronicle says that she was personally present. I mean, don't you find it strange that the heroes beat Malygos but lost to Arthas? Because we know for sure that Malygos is stronger than Arthas (even Lei Shen is stronger than Arthas).

You put forward an assumption based on literally nothing, and then you asked me to refute it. Interesting ways to argue.

I repeat, Mannoroth did not expect at all that Thunder would attack him (Chronicle 3). You base your argument on the cutscene from Warcraft III and try to argue using some ridiculous argument.

[Terongor]

Maybe. In any case, Krasus' example is still canon.

You still haven't explained to me how he summoned creatures of the Void without using the Void. No, you said that the creatures of the titans are too noble (or something) to use such dirty magic as blood magic, and now you are trying to prove to me that Setesh used the Fel (although in those days chaos had nothing to do with the Fel, this is the boss the time of the Cataclysm, before the Chronicles another 5 years).

No, because you do not have a separate race of gods in Warcraft. Again, you run out of arguments and cling to words. Childish behavior.

You tried to prove that Elune's Tear is a Life artifact and that it is therefore so vulnerable to the forces of Xavius ​​(as well as the forces of Nightmare).

Sorry i didn't know

As for me, everything is fine. Malygos lost against the Red Dragons and Alexstrasza.

But Sylvanas knew her subordinates, didn't she? She could look them in the face and send them to slaughter. I understand that it is not productive for an army general to cry for every one killed, but she just didn't give a damn. She did not see them as soldiers and as proud defenders of their country. She viewed them like arrows in a quiver. Her arrows in her quiver.

I have no idea why you said that. Danuser was saying bullshit about these threads in Verek again, but I guess I ONLY SUPPOSE that the version of the main timeline matters more than the AU versions. We know that there is only one true timeline (Aman'tul said this to Nozdormu) and that all the other branches are just streams of one big river (Chronicle 3).

The Chronicle says that she was personally present. I mean, don't you find it strange that the heroes beat Malygos but lost to Arthas? Because we know for sure that Malygos is stronger than Arthas (even Lei Shen is stronger than Arthas).

You put forward an assumption based on literally nothing, and then you asked me to refute it. Interesting ways to argue.

I repeat, Mannoroth did not expect at all that Thunder would attack him (Chronicle 3). You base your argument on the cutscene from Warcraft III and try to argue using some ridiculous argument.

Still they weren't clasified as undeads on krasuses case.

Like demons in Broken shore used fel to enslave elementals and bend them to their will and we have no implication of such a huge elemental army going into broken shore as such it leaves only possibility to summon them. No I didn't say it didn't fit their their nature not that they were too noble.

As blizzard have said Titans still aren't god and they specified that they are godlike as such it means blizzard themselfs atleast has some picture of what a god is a Titans aren't. Why are you arguing against blizzard?

Actually it was you who said that as it originated from the Tomb of sargeras part of the debate.

I don't want condolances which are just said out social responsibility... its just pity.

Many rulers and generals see soldiers as pawns to be sacrificed(in ancient and mediaval times like qin shi huangdi) as they are sacrificed for the leaders goal.

So you are saying blizz and danuser is wrong?
True thats more likely the explanation but about the earlier comment war crimes pretty much implied garrosh wanted whats best for his people the orcs in his PoV same as kael.

She was there and no not really as she chose to support the mortals and she atleast wanted to see her "brothers" last moment and attacking malygos could be emotionally jarring for her and again we only know she was there when malygos fell nothing which made it ingame or in a book which implies or says she fought. Lei Shen was recently revived so its hard to say if he was at full strength there yet and players pretty soon after LKs fall defeated al'akir who is stronger than either.

I gave you the quote from first Chronicle which gives it few possibilities of Dreams origins and cosmological map which placed it opposite to shadowlands as such I gave enough to say what you say isn't confirmed.

We expect could be seen as many things as it could used in a situations were person A nearly hits person b for many times and person b just watches it until the person A actually hit him but person B by reflexes try to block it even though he didn't expect the hit.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I don't know, but I do think Arthas as the Lick King was far more powerful than Bolvar; not only because Arthas power was bound to his hosts of undead, but because Bolvar seemed to actively suppress the influence of the Helm of Domination, while Arthas just didn't.

Which leads us to another notion; If Arthas was still the Lich King, Sylvanas wouldn't be powered by the Jailer, because Arthas WAS his agent before Sylvanas; she is the successor on that role because Bolvar put on the helm and suppressed the undead.

[kaelix1]

I never fully understand why people keep bringing Lei Shen into an Arthas vs debate, i said it last time and i will say it again, Lei Shen vs Arthas is about both characters at the peak of their powers aka Lei shen with been empowered by Ra/Aman'Thul and Arthas when we fought him at ICC, him been weaker than Lei shen mean shit because Lei shen we fought its nothing more than a shadow of what he was, not sure why that darkoms guy keeps bringing this in his discussion, the funny part is he keep 'forgetting' to mention which version of Lei shen is stronger than Arthas

Arthas vs Sylvannas?

Jailer is a cosmic level being in wow verse right? if so I don't see why he would not have enough power to make Sylvannas stronger than Arthas as Arthas powers wise is not a big deal in wow verse, was Sylvannas that fought Bolvar stronger than Arthas? I'm not sure, we know Arthas is far stronger than Bolvar, so I don't think she could have defeated him as easy, maybe if the Jailer throw more power at her, but base on her power level against Bolvar i would say shes weaker than Arthas, end game Sylvannas will definetly be stronger than any Lich King we seen so far

[Unholyground]

I never fully understand why people keep bringing Lei Shen into an Arthas vs debate, i said it last time and i will say it again, Lei Shen vs Arthas is about both characters at the peak of their powers aka Lei shen with been empowered by Ra/Aman'Thul and Arthas when we fought him at ICC, him been weaker than Lei shen mean shit because Lei shen we fought its nothing more than a shadow of what he was, not sure why that darkoms guy keeps bringing this in his discussion, the funny part is he keep 'forgetting' to mention which version of Lei shen is stronger than Arthas

Arthas vs Sylvannas?

Jailer is a cosmic level being in wow verse right? if so I don't see why he would not have enough power to make Sylvannas stronger than Arthas as Arthas powers wise is not a big deal in wow verse, was Sylvannas that fought Bolvar stronger than Arthas? I'm not sure, we know Arthas is far stronger than Bolvar, so I don't think she could have defeated him as easy, maybe if the Jailer throw more power at her, but base on her power level against Bolvar i would say shes weaker than Arthas, end game Sylvannas will definetly be stronger than any Lich King we seen so far

Arthas was being directly controlled by the jailor so his powers grew with the jailor, even if people try to deny this now it was confirmed in receny lore.

[darkoms]

Still they weren't clasified as undeads on krasuses case.

Like demons in Broken shore used fel to enslave elementals and bend them to their will and we have no implication of such a huge elemental army going into broken shore as such it leaves only possibility to summon them. No I didn't say it didn't fit their their nature not that they were too noble.

As blizzard have said Titans still aren't god and they specified that they are godlike as such it means blizzard themselfs atleast has some picture of what a god is a Titans aren't. Why are you arguing against blizzard?

Actually it was you who said that as it originated from the Tomb of sargeras part of the debate.

I don't want condolances which are just said out social responsibility... its just pity.

Many rulers and generals see soldiers as pawns to be sacrificed(in ancient and mediaval times like qin shi huangdi) as they are sacrificed for the leaders goal.

So you are saying blizz and danuser is wrong?
True thats more likely the explanation but about the earlier comment war crimes pretty much implied garrosh wanted whats best for his people the orcs in his PoV same as kael.

She was there and no not really as she chose to support the mortals and she atleast wanted to see her "brothers" last moment and attacking malygos could be emotionally jarring for her and again we only know she was there when malygos fell nothing which made it ingame or in a book which implies or says she fought. Lei Shen was recently revived so its hard to say if he was at full strength there yet and players pretty soon after LKs fall defeated al'akir who is stronger than either.

I gave you the quote from first Chronicle which gives it few possibilities of Dreams origins and cosmological map which placed it opposite to shadowlands as such I gave enough to say what you say isn't confirmed.

We expect could be seen as many things as it could used in a situations were person A nearly hits person b for many times and person b just watches it until the person A actually hit him but person B by reflexes try to block it even though he didn't expect the hit.

He says bluntly that, unlike the Nathrezim, he does not enjoy lifting corpses.

Once again, what have the elementals got to do with it? Will you give me proof where the Void creature was subdued by the Fel? Don't confuse elementals and creatures of the Void, and don't pass your ideas off as canon. He used the Void, whether you like it or not. Does it mean that the use of Filth and Void corresponds to their character? Not bad

Because you get to the bottom of the words. You run out of arguments and you cling to this phrase. The Old Gods and the Wild Gods are at completely different levels of strength and are much weaker than the Titans, but they are still called gods. So what is God in the Warcraft universe?

LOL what? I tell you that all the Pillars of Creation are arcane artifacts, although they may be PARTIALLY associated with other powers, such as the Hammer of Kaz'Goroth and the Tidestone of Golganneth, which are associated with the elements.

Okay...

Yes, and it shows out of cruelty. Sylvanas is cruel

No, I say that they explain things in a very strange way.
I think the Arbiter appreciated both desires and actions and sent them to Revendreth anyway.

We also didn't see Velen, Khadgar, and Illidan fighting in the game. They only held back the demons, but lore it was with their help that we won. No, they said directly on Twitter that Lei Shen is stronger on THEIR PRIME. The Lich King was also not on his prime in the raid (due to the destruction of his heart). And I'm not sure if resurrection affects powers. After being resurrected in Cataclysm, Malorne was able to kill Rhyolith immediately.

You still haven't explained to me how the planetary dimension can be the equivalent of the multiverse.

You don't seem to understand. Mannoroth was 100% certain that Grom would not attack him. Chronicles> video

[Terongor]

He says bluntly that, unlike the Nathrezim, he does not enjoy lifting corpses.

Once again, what have the elementals got to do with it? Will you give me proof where the Void creature was subdued by the Fel? Don't confuse elementals and creatures of the Void, and don't pass your ideas off as canon. He used the Void, whether you like it or not. Does it mean that the use of Filth and Void corresponds to their character? Not bad

Because you get to the bottom of the words. You run out of arguments and you cling to this phrase. The Old Gods and the Wild Gods are at completely different levels of strength and are much weaker than the Titans, but they are still called gods. So what is God in the Warcraft universe?

LOL what? I tell you that all the Pillars of Creation are arcane artifacts, although they may be PARTIALLY associated with other powers, such as the Hammer of Kaz'Goroth and the Tidestone of Golganneth, which are associated with the elements.

Okay...

Yes, and it shows out of cruelty. Sylvanas is cruel

No, I say that they explain things in a very strange way.
I think the Arbiter appreciated both desires and actions and sent them to Revendreth anyway.

We also didn't see Velen, Khadgar, and Illidan fighting in the game. They only held back the demons, but lore it was with their help that we won. No, they said directly on Twitter that Lei Shen is stronger on THEIR PRIME. The Lich King was also not on his prime in the raid (due to the destruction of his heart). And I'm not sure if resurrection affects powers. After being resurrected in Cataclysm, Malorne was able to kill Rhyolith immediately.

You still haven't explained to me how the planetary dimension can be the equivalent of the multiverse.

You don't seem to understand. Mannoroth was 100% certain that Grom would not attack him. Chronicles> video

I don't understand what lifting means in this case?

Well you haven't given proof that wlocks use void if they don't they can subdue a voidwalker with fel. We have never seen any other "void user" use chaos bolt for example.

Again we don't know that but blizzard said titans aren't gods.

So how do you explain how Tears of elune turned ysera to a Nightmare creature if it was arcane.

Cruel would be if she enjoyed it or did it for pleasure more like ruthless.

Calling it bullshit is more than saying its strange.
Most likely yeah.

Were was it said that they did it in KJ fight? Also illidan atleast used one ability. Yeah in his PRIME are you saying lei shen was at his prime when he was ressurected.
Hard to say as ryoliths power are hard assume.

As I said it was only a possibility Chronicles magic map placed it there..

And reflexs are not in any way consius they are subconsius.

[darkoms]

I don't understand what lifting means in this case?

Well you haven't given proof that wlocks use void if they don't they can subdue a voidwalker with fel. We have never seen any other "void user" use chaos bolt for example.

Again we don't know that but blizzard said titans aren't gods.

So how do you explain how Tears of elune turned ysera to a Nightmare creature if it was arcane.

Cruel would be if she enjoyed it or did it for pleasure more like ruthless.

Calling it bullshit is more than saying its strange.
Most likely yeah.

Were was it said that they did it in KJ fight? Also illidan atleast used one ability. Yeah in his PRIME are you saying lei shen was at his prime when he was ressurected.
Hard to say as ryoliths power are hard assume.

As I said it was only a possibility Chronicles magic map placed it there..

And reflexs are not in any way consius they are subconsius.

Oops, strange translation again, sorry. I meant resurrection.

Will you give me proof that a creature of the Void can be subdued by the power of fel? If it can be done with elementals, it doesn't mean that it can be done with creatures of the void. Elementals can also be subdued using arcane. Void creatures too? This is just the name of the ability and it was 5 years before the Chronicles. Warlocks and DHs also use Chaos abilities, but this is an in-world school, and not one of the cosmological forces https://wow.gamepedia.com/Chaos_(spell_school)

Again, tell me who the gods are in Warcraft. I call gods all tier-1 level creatures. Titans, Elune, Void Lords, Murmur. Until we have a separate race of gods, I will call them that.

Because Xavius ​​perverted the Tear. I don't understand why you decided that Nightmare only affects sleep artifacts or dream creatures. Even undead were affected by the Nightmare in Stormrage. You still haven't explained to me how Elune's Tear activated the Heart of the Naaru, an artifact of Light.

Just different degrees of cruelty. She viewed them as just things. She didn’t care about their death, she didn’t care what their loved ones felt. Sylvanas is heartless.

Because Danuser is really talking nonsense all the time. Moral dullness, Vindicaar does not fit into history, threads in a rope.
Then why are we discussing this at all? Kael also had a desire to help his people, but then he went mad because of Kil'jaeden.

Until Chronicle 4 comes out, it isn't said. But these 3 are standing over Kiljaeden's body, not somewhere in the distance. Yes I know. A very useful ability. And Yrel in the raid destroys Archimonde's spiers, but she and two other assistants do no real harm to Archimonde. I'm not saying he was in prime time. Didn't he lose Amantul's soul after his first death? This could affect his ability. Well, we know that Rhyolite is one of the strongest servants of Ragnaros and that Malfurion doesn't even hope to defeat him even with Hamuul's help, but Malorne defeats him with one blow right after being resurrected.

And on the Chronicles, reality is reflected by Azeroth. This may be true for Azeroth, but not for the entire multiverse.

You are amazingly aware of how pit lords work.

[Terongor]

Oops, strange translation again, sorry. I meant resurrection.

Will you give me proof that a creature of the Void can be subdued by the power of fel? If it can be done with elementals, it doesn't mean that it can be done with creatures of the void. Elementals can also be subdued using arcane. Void creatures too? This is just the name of the ability and it was 5 years before the Chronicles. Warlocks and DHs also use Chaos abilities, but this is an in-world school, and not one of the cosmological forces https://wow.gamepedia.com/Chaos_(spell_school)

Again, tell me who the gods are in Warcraft. I call gods all tier-1 level creatures. Titans, Elune, Void Lords, Murmur. Until we have a separate race of gods, I will call them that.

Because Xavius ​​perverted the Tear. I don't understand why you decided that Nightmare only affects sleep artifacts or dream creatures. Even undead were affected by the Nightmare in Stormrage. You still haven't explained to me how Elune's Tear activated the Heart of the Naaru, an artifact of Light.

Just different degrees of cruelty. She viewed them as just things. She didn’t care about their death, she didn’t care what their loved ones felt. Sylvanas is heartless.

Because Danuser is really talking nonsense all the time. Moral dullness, Vindicaar does not fit into history, threads in a rope.
Then why are we discussing this at all? Kael also had a desire to help his people, but then he went mad because of Kil'jaeden.

Until Chronicle 4 comes out, it isn't said. But these 3 are standing over Kiljaeden's body, not somewhere in the distance. Yes I know. A very useful ability. And Yrel in the raid destroys Archimonde's spiers, but she and two other assistants do no real harm to Archimonde. I'm not saying he was in prime time. Didn't he lose Amantul's soul after his first death? This could affect his ability. Well, we know that Rhyolite is one of the strongest servants of Ragnaros and that Malfurion doesn't even hope to defeat him even with Hamuul's help, but Malorne defeats him with one blow right after being resurrected.

And on the Chronicles, reality is reflected by Azeroth. This may be true for Azeroth, but not for the entire multiverse.

You are amazingly aware of how pit lords work.

Ressurection is still different than reanimation.

Chaos bolt was a move added in wotlk for locks. Chaos bolt of the boss had the same name, iccon and animation as what wlocks have. Easy warlock pets called voidwalkers and all other glyph versions of them.

So you are saying blizzard is wrong now? https://wow.gamepedia.com/Titan#cite_note-Logy-3
That implies gods are "divine beings" in the eyes of blizzard.

I never said they affected "sleep artifacts"? Its not explained enough by blizz to give any valid theories.

In english language ruthless and cruel doesn't mean the samething. Leaders is supposed to give up his emotions and ignore the emotions of those under them for what the leader see as the "greater good"

Just curious as you were too hostily towards him for no reason and we don't know Sylvanases endgame as it could be to save us all somehow in her twisted mind.

Or blizz can just say they helped the PC characters who killed him same with Archimonde. I though he lost it to wrathion when wrathion ate his heart? And players kill him without any help in firelands.

And Azeroth is nearly devoid of all spirit element so with that logic it makes no sense place like other elements in the map.

Well we don't really know how the pit lords work but we have no indication that they mentally differ from other life and nearly all life has some reflexes.

[darkoms]

Ressurection is still different than reanimation.

Chaos bolt was a move added in wotlk for locks. Chaos bolt of the boss had the same name, iccon and animation as what wlocks have. Easy warlock pets called voidwalkers and all other glyph versions of them.

So you are saying blizzard is wrong now? https://wow.gamepedia.com/Titan#cite_note-Logy-3
That implies gods are "divine beings" in the eyes of blizzard.

I never said they affected "sleep artifacts"? Its not explained enough by blizz to give any valid theories.

In english language ruthless and cruel doesn't mean the samething. Leaders is supposed to give up his emotions and ignore the emotions of those under them for what the leader see as the "greater good"

Just curious as you were too hostily towards him for no reason and we don't know Sylvanases endgame as it could be to save us all somehow in her twisted mind.

Or blizz can just say they helped the PC characters who killed him same with Archimonde. I though he lost it to wrathion when wrathion ate his heart? And players kill him without any help in firelands.

And Azeroth is nearly devoid of all spirit element so with that logic it makes no sense place like other elements in the map.

Well we don't really know how the pit lords work but we have no indication that they mentally differ from other life and nearly all life has some reflexes.

He resurrected him as a corpse. Do I really need to explain everything to you? That goblin was a mindless zombie with only a fraction of his old personality left, but that was enough to lead Krasus to Neltharion's lair.

Well? This was long before the Chronicles, when the Fel was thought to be just a darker version of arcane. There was no separate Disorder force. So will you give me proof that the warlocks subdue them with Fel, not the Void? Or do you think Warlocks ONLY use Fel? Funny

No, I say that you find fault with words and in the context of our dispute there is no meaning I call them gods or godlike because I just refer to their enormous power, and you behave like a child and this is pathetic.

I meant a dream artifact. Ah, again, you ran out of arguments and you say that Blizzard did not explain it. Bravo.

They may suppress their emotions for the greater good, but she frankly didn't give a damn about them.

It’s just that he’s really talking nonsense, or he’s just evading an answer. Yes, yes, of course, the morally gray Sylvanas, whom no one understands.

Just like Alex helped the players against Malygos. I'm not sure. It would be strange if the soul remained in him after his death (also not sure about the power of Ra). Wrathion seems to have only received memories. Wasn't he weakened? Ragnaros in the raid says that the heroes came too early and he was not at full strength until the 4th phase (heroic only), because before that he was killed in the quest, so apparently the elementals need time to regain all their strength after death in real the world.

LOL what? To be honest, it always seemed to me that when Amantul wrested Isharaj from Azeroth, it freed most of the spirit and that is why there are so many wild gods and ancients on Azeroth. Also I have no idea why you said this. Perhaps the whole Spirit went into the Emerald Dream. As I said, the Emerald Dream is only found on Azeroth, unlike the Shadowlands.

Illidan noted that Magtheridon had become lazy and as such, although he is a powerful pit lord, it will not be difficult to defeat him. And he became lazy in just ... a few years of reigning Outland? It seems the pit lords are getting fat fast.

[Terongor]

He resurrected him as a corpse. Do I really need to explain everything to you? That goblin was a mindless zombie with only a fraction of his old personality left, but that was enough to lead Krasus to Neltharion's lair.

Well? This was long before the Chronicles, when the Fel was thought to be just a darker version of arcane. There was no separate Disorder force. So will you give me proof that the warlocks subdue them with Fel, not the Void? Or do you think Warlocks ONLY use Fel? Funny

No, I say that you find fault with words and in the context of our dispute there is no meaning I call them gods or godlike because I just refer to their enormous power, and you behave like a child and this is pathetic.

I meant a dream artifact. Ah, again, you ran out of arguments and you say that Blizzard did not explain it. Bravo.

They may suppress their emotions for the greater good, but she frankly didn't give a damn about them.

It’s just that he’s really talking nonsense, or he’s just evading an answer. Yes, yes, of course, the morally gray Sylvanas, whom no one understands.

Just like Alex helped the players against Malygos. I'm not sure. It would be strange if the soul remained in him after his death (also not sure about the power of Ra). Wrathion seems to have only received memories. Wasn't he weakened? Ragnaros in the raid says that the heroes came too early and he was not at full strength until the 4th phase (heroic only), because before that he was killed in the quest, so apparently the elementals need time to regain all their strength after death in real the world.

LOL what? To be honest, it always seemed to me that when Amantul wrested Isharaj from Azeroth, it freed most of the spirit and that is why there are so many wild gods and ancients on Azeroth. Also I have no idea why you said this. Perhaps the whole Spirit went into the Emerald Dream. As I said, the Emerald Dream is only found on Azeroth, unlike the Shadowlands.

Illidan noted that Magtheridon had become lazy and as such, although he is a powerful pit lord, it will not be difficult to defeat him. And he became lazy in just ... a few years of reigning Outland? It seems the pit lords are getting fat fast.

They still used the word ressurect and not reanimate and ressurection is still different in warcraft lore.

We have no real indications of player warlocks using void.

As god is term defined by blizzard meaning "divine being" in Warcraft universe you are missusing the term and in arguments and debates terms are important.

I never said nightmare only affects people or objects close to it. Only real theory out there is that Elune is somekind actual deity and her powers activated the lights heart but we have no actual indication that she is so its pointless to bring it up.

I meant she does it and ignores her followers feelings and her on for the greater good but greater good is always individual.

Not really as not all question can be answered because spoilers. As blizzard still keeps with their story that she is morally gray its possible.

No she didn’t.... it was never shown ingame or said the she helped personally.... she only sent drakes so no she didn’t.
Well it was stored in a inanimate object by ra meaning it most likely need to claimed for it to move.
We only know that for creature on a level of ragnaros and players already killed al'akir without any help when he wasn't reganing his strength.

Wild gods were borne of nature not spirit and it was said world souls consume spirit meaning its their food so yeah we have no indication of this theory that spirit spilled out then and spirit is an elemental force for them to be destroyed it means end and lastly we don't know that as it was never stated and saying the maps reality means only Azeroth because they show its map on it. That could be just artistic choice as in that map there are alot those kind of details.

Any creature would be becomen lazy after ruling a whole world that totally without any real opposition.

[Tripzzz]

We have no real indications of player warlocks using void.

Warlocks are stated to use the Void for all specializations in the Legion class posts.

"Warlocks peer into the Void without hesitation, leveraging the chaos they glimpse within to devastating ends in battle—their greatest abilities are fueled by the souls they’ve harvested from their victims. They exploit powerful Shadow magic to manipulate and degrade the minds and bodies of their enemies."

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...series-warlock

[Terongor]

Warlocks are stated to use the Void for all specializations in the Legion class posts.

"Warlocks peer into the Void without hesitation, leveraging the chaos they glimpse within to devastating ends in battle—their greatest abilities are fueled by the souls they’ve harvested from their victims. They exploit powerful Shadow magic to manipulate and degrade the minds and bodies of their enemies."

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...series-warlock

Voic could in this case mean unknown as it descripes this void chaotic which would make no sense as fel represents chaos and in current lore thats the only case void is descriped as chaotic.

Also in the same post they descripe warlocks fel fire as fire like the ones fire elementals, shamans and mages are using

[Tripzzz]

Voic could in this case mean unknown as it descripes this void chaotic which would make no sense as fel represents chaos and in current lore thats the only case void is descriped as chaotic.

It literally says Shadow magic in the sentence after. You are wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Voic could in this case mean unknown as it descripes this void chaotic which would make no sense as fel represents chaos and in current lore thats the only case void is descriped as chaotic.

Also in the same post they descripe warlocks fel fire as fire like the ones fire elementals, shamans and mages are using

Incinerate and Immolate are fire spells if you don't use the Green fire codex.

[darkoms]

They still used the word ressurect and not reanimate and ressurection is still different in warcraft lore.

We have no real indications of player warlocks using void.

As god is term defined by blizzard meaning "divine being" in Warcraft universe you are missusing the term and in arguments and debates terms are important.

I never said nightmare only affects people or objects close to it. Only real theory out there is that Elune is somekind actual deity and her powers activated the lights heart but we have no actual indication that she is so its pointless to bring it up.

I meant she does it and ignores her followers feelings and her on for the greater good but greater good is always individual.

Not really as not all question can be answered because spoilers. As blizzard still keeps with their story that she is morally gray its possible.

No she didn’t.... it was never shown ingame or said the she helped personally.... she only sent drakes so no she didn’t.
Well it was stored in a inanimate object by ra meaning it most likely need to claimed for it to move.
We only know that for creature on a level of ragnaros and players already killed al'akir without any help when he wasn't reganing his strength.

Wild gods were borne of nature not spirit and it was said world souls consume spirit meaning its their food so yeah we have no indication of this theory that spirit spilled out then and spirit is an elemental force for them to be destroyed it means end and lastly we don't know that as it was never stated and saying the maps reality means only Azeroth because they show its map on it. That could be just artistic choice as in that map there are alot those kind of details.

Any creature would be becomen lazy after ruling a whole world that totally without any real opposition.

Who are they? Did I give you a quote? And mb explain to me the difference in raising a goblin's corpse by Kras and a necromancer?

LOL what? https://wow.gamepedia.com/Shadow_Bolt
So you deny that the Warlocks use the Void? This is some completely new level of crap.

Are the Titans not divine beings? It also does not matter in this dispute, because I was only referring to the strength of the titans, not their essence.

You indicated that Xavius ​​was only able to corrupt the Tear of Elune because he possesses the power of the Nightmare and that the Tear is therefore vulnerable to the Nightmare. Therefore, you prove that the Tear is an artifact of Life.

Greater good? She did not kill Arthas when he first invaded Celtalas because she believed that for such a murder she would not be sung and praised for her military genius. And she didn't care about the lives of her people. She considered them just things. Her things. With her arrows in a quiver.

Blizzard also argued that Teldrassil is not so simple and that it makes no sense for Sylvanas to burn it. I'm tired of believing Blizzard's words about Sylvanas.

And Khadgar, Illidan and Velen only held back the demons in the battle with KJ (well, except for the phase with Illidan's vision). Um, what? Ragnaros is stronger than AlAkir.

How did you define it? On Draenor, the counterparts of the wild gods were born of the Spirit, like the various treants. Once again, what? Is the spirit an elementary force that must be destroyed? What are you talking about? Ah, that is, this is an artistic choice. So you tell me how the Emerald Dream of the planetary level can be analogous to the Shadowlands of the multiverse level or not? I've been asking you about this for 5 pages now and you just ignore this question.

So where did you get the idea that Mannoroth fights endlessly? And that he is at war with someone strong?