Do people genuinely think the Horde is evil?

[khazmodan]

Forsaken don't eat people

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Cannibalize Undead Racial
5 yd range
Instant 2 min cooldown
When activated, regenerates 7% of total health and mana every 2 sec for 10 sec. Only works on Humanoid or Undead corpses within 5 yds. Any movement, action, or damage taken while Cannibalizing will cancel the effect.
Spell Details

[NorthernDragon]

Cannibalize Undead Racial
5 yd range
Instant 2 min cooldown
When activated, regenerates 7% of total health and mana every 2 sec for 10 sec. Only works on Humanoid or Undead corpses within 5 yds. Any movement, action, or damage taken while Cannibalizing will cancel the effect.
Spell Details

It's a game mechanic, not a lore trait. I don't recall anywhere were Forsaken have eaten people, ghouls and the Scourge perhaps but not Forsaken. Besides, undead don't even need to eat, it's physiologically impossible without exploding their stomach

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Name a single time that the Alliance has committed genocide in response to Theramore or Teldrassil.

I mean I am pretty sure both Genn and Jaina were urging Anduin to respond in kind. Never said they did, though I do believe Dazar'alor had civilian casualties but not genocide

[khazmodan]

It's a game mechanic, not a lore trait. I don't recall anywhere were Forsaken have eaten people, ghouls and the Scourge perhaps but not Forsaken. Besides, undead don't even need to eat, it's physiologically impossible without exploding their stomach

the mechanic has been in the game since the beginning and most people never read the books or lore beyond what they get in cinematics so it counts in making people think of the horde as at least partly bad.

[NorthernDragon]

So what, just let the Horde keep committing genocide because we don't wanna be mean? Your argument only makes sense if it's equal from both sides, when it really isn't.

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When has the Alliance committed genocide?
And when have they done so against a mutual enemy?

I think you're confusing warfare with genocide. Killing the entire enemy army is not genocide (us vs The Legion). Killing (or even attempting to) their entire race is (Teldrassil).

Teldrassil wasn't really the entire race was it? It's debatable if it was genocide but not that it was a war crime. That said the Alliance have tried eradicating trolls, gnolls, orcs, etc in the past. They literally had concentration camps for orcs...

[EntertainmentNihilist]

Pure evil? No. But their political actions seem far more questionable.

The whole cataclysm war started because Garrosh was a warmonger (and Social Darwinist) who thought he was justified in pillaging the land of another faction because his people didn't have enough resources. I'm sorry, but being poor doesn't give you the right to violently rob from others who aren't.

Thrall was generally a good leader, but he shouldn't have made the insane decision to give Warchief to the second worst leader-figure in the entire horde.

[Trumpcat]

It's worse: it's also hypocritical.

[NorthernDragon]

the mechanic has been in the game since the beginning and most people never read the books or lore beyond what they get in cinematics so it counts in making people think of the horde as at least partly bad.

The mechanic doesn't even make sense. Canibalise would mean only humans. Point is lorewise Forsaken have never been shown chowing down on people AFAIK let alone as a accepted activity. Lorewise we know some trolls are canibals but they have no trait.

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Due to how the story is told from the alliance perspective not a lot of "gray area" is left for people on alliance to doubt this.

The story would be more interesting but i don't think the writers know how to go about this considering the entire plot of BFA had a faction war element to it 'bringing it back to warcrafts core' they try to sell it as, if we have to follow this idea you have to understand that in warcraft 1 and 2 the horde was the evil faction, from warcraft 3 onward we started to only just see them in a more noble tribe light, this was later all written off as the horde being under the control of the fell bloodlust and gul'dan.

All in all the game does not do a good job of telling the whole story, it's disconnected as it jumps all over the place. We are always going back and forward in time sometimes even into the future or alternative realities. If you didn't play every expansion fully it is rather hard to get the entire story.

Nobel (sp) does a fairly good job at it.

tl;dr: BFA design philosophy "bring the war back to warcraft" "Original warcraft games the horde were the bad guys".

Oh no, I totally understand originally they were bad. But throughout WoW they were no more evil than the Alliance until Blizzard randomly disregarded that for BFA. Sylvanas wanting a full on war is believable. The Horde, not so much but it happened because Blizzard wanted it

[khazmodan]

The mechanic doesn't even make sense. Canibalise would mean only humans. Point is lorewise Forsaken have never been shown chowing down on people AFAIK let alone as a accepted activity. Lorewise we know some trolls are canibals but they have no trait.

Trolls are cannibals as well? somebody needs to send some missionaries to those evil savages...either that or take there land through manifest destiny.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Trolls are cannibals as well? somebody needs to send some missionaries to those evil savages...either that or take there land through manifest destiny.

Zandalari aren't (except Blood Trolls, but I think they're something diffrent entirely), so not every troll tribe is

[NorthernDragon]

Trolls are cannibals as well? somebody needs to send some missionaries to those evil savages...either that or take there land through manifest destiny.

Cultural canibalism isn't inherently bad. No more so than murder.

[Clone]

Of course people think Horde is evil, they are also of course wrong. Even Sylvanas's shitty behavior was only possible due to Alliance's shitty behavior. All these bitching about genocide (which has lost all seriousness in WoW) has made people forget that the Alliance have committed the exact same thing to trolls. But since that's so long ago it somehow doesn't count.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

The mechanic doesn't even make sense. Canibalise would mean only humans. Point is lorewise Forsaken have never been shown chowing down on people AFAIK let alone as a accepted activity. Lorewise we know some trolls are canibals but they have no trait.

Alliance side Stormheim has Forsaken NPCs using the spell "cannibalize" on corpses where the ship crashes..

[Aresk]

That's not how ethics works. You can't just say "X is ethical and Y isn't".

Ignoring the fact that I didn't say anything was ethical or unethical, what's your argument for genocide being ethical?

[khazmodan]

Cultural canibalism isn't inherently bad. No more so than murder.

Ok...ill be stepping away now while they call the men in white to take you too your padded room. Seriously, as soon as you go that far into relativism you are either arguing just to win or you are a psychopath.

[Super Dickmann]

Cultural canibalism isn't inherently bad. No more so than murder.

Something being better than murder doesn't make it good. It just makes it less bad.

[NorthernDragon]

Ok...ill be stepping away now while they call the men in white to take you too your padded room. Seriously, as soon as you go that far into relativism you are either arguing just to win or you are a psychopath.

I am saying murder and canibalism are equally bad unless consensual. A canibal isn't more evil than a murderer and since every race commits murder you cannot really pick out a race because of occasional potential canibalism. Besides every race is capable of canibalism.

[Minikin]

Ive run out of the popcorn required for these threads.

[Feanoro]

I am saying murder and canibalism are equally bad unless consensual.

... What? Consensual murder and cannibalism? Seriously, what the everloving fuck?

I mean, I've seen some crazy shit trying to excuse the Horde, but this may very well be the new winner.

[khazmodan]

I am saying murder and canibalism are equally bad unless consensual. A canibal isn't more evil than a murderer and since every race commits murder you cannot really pick out a race because of occasional potential canibalism. Besides every race is capable of canibalism.

Please remember that plenty of psychopaths do very good things for the human race and leave a legacy to be proud of.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Teldrassil wasn't really the entire race was it? It's debatable if it was genocide but not that it was a war crime. That said the Alliance have tried eradicating trolls, gnolls, orcs, etc in the past. They literally had concentration camps for orcs...

Teldeassil was the vast majority of the race No other night elf settlement came even close.

The concentration camps for the orcs only existed because they wouldn’t genocide them they kept the orcs alive at such a great cost that the gilanes left the alliance.

They also haven’t been trying to wipe out the gnolls just fighting against them multiple places because gnolls aren’t exactly peaceful.

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Pure evil? No. But their political actions seem far more questionable.

The whole cataclysm war started because Garrosh was a warmonger (and Social Darwinist) who thought he was justified in pillaging the land of another faction because his people didn't have enough resources. I'm sorry, but being poor doesn't give you the right to violently rob from others who aren't.

Thrall was generally a good leader, but he shouldn't have made the insane decision to give Warchief to the second worst leader-figure in the entire horde.

Garrosh didn’t start the cata war varian declared it in wrath and attacked before the shattering happened the start of the war had litterly nothing to do with garrosh.