Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Kaleredar]

I lived in Redding and worked in Red Bluff for about 6 months and they were hell holes. I lived with a friend for about 6 months until I could move into another place and I couldn't wait to get out of the area. I might be wrong but I could have sworn I read that if their dream of a "state of Jefferson" were ever to come they would instantly become the poorest or one of the poorest states in the U.S.

I believe that's the case, yes.

I've said it before in other threads, but the only people pushing for the division of California into 2+ states are out-of-state republicans who want to lessen California's currently monolithic power as a state and divide up its electoral college votes into at least some chunk they think they can reap, the aforementioned rural conservatives living in California who "want the damn big-city liberals to stop taxing them and telling them what to do" and the wealthy, coastal conservatives who want to stop paying to support the second group and who want to prosper from California's built-up resource, human, and infrastructure capital without having to pay taxes to support it.

You'll notice the speculative maps for carving up California into multiple states (I've seen up to 5) are done so to segregate those poorer rural conservatives safely away from the rich conservatives who are drawing the maps, all while whispering in the rural conservative's ears about all the evils the liberals are committing against them.

I like to think of it like an old west melodrama, wherein the rich, greedy land baron convinces the poor, uneducated hothead ranch owner to divest his lands from the federal government under the pretense that the ranch owner wont have to pay grazing fees, and all the ranch owner has to do is give the land baron exclusive access to a mountain on the property that only the baron knows contains gold. And all the while an out-of-state oil tycoon cheers them on so he can more easily secure the rights to tear the whole place up for oil drilling.

[PhaelixWW]

The timeline of COVID-19 could not possibly have been more advantageous to Biden.

And this is really one of the biggest condemnations of Trump you can find. Any halfwit incumbent could have used a national disaster to ride the wave of nationalist sentiment to reelection in a landslide.

He had a ready-made excuse for why his policies didn't bring about the economic growth and domination he promised, by just having a halfway decent record on the pandemic, and trotting it out as a scapegoat.

And Trump couldn't even do that.

Instead, his actions have literally cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

[Xyonai]

And this is really one of the biggest condemnations of Trump you can find. Any halfwit incumbent could have used a national disaster to ride the wave of nationalist sentiment to reelection in a landslide.

He had a ready-made excuse for why his policies didn't bring about the economic growth and domination he promised, by just having a halfway decent record on the pandemic, and trotting it out as a scapegoat.

And Trump couldn't even do that.

Instead, his actions have literally cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of Americans.

I'll always fall back on this point as the thing that fucks me up the most about the situation. Trump's craven desire to be seeing as 'liked' and 'strong' meant he couldn't even get over himself long enough to confront something that would force him to enact - short term - unpopular policies which would have him coasting to 2020 in a fuckin' landslide.

Shit, in a lot of cases they did even less than nothing and actively encouraged its spread and lethality through cartoonishly evil practices (IE: Stealing PPE and Kushner's 'let them die and blame the blue governors' plan) and since the early days of 'It's just one guy' Trump's own Ego has refused to allow him to back track so he's been forced to double down on his crazy stances that have lead his followers to whole heartedly continue spreading it like plague rats and confuse unaffiliated voters on the messaging.

The only reason it's not worse is because of state governments who actually give a shit.

[s_bushido]

Shit, in a lot of cases they did even less than nothing and actively encouraged its spread and lethality through cartoonishly evil practices (IE: Stealing PPE and Kushner's 'let them die and blame the blue governors' plan)

I still can't get over how he was gloating about the trouble blue states have had/been having with the virus during that last debate. Like...in what world is that sort of bullshit going to do anything other than alienate people?

I can't imagine how much more power the GOP could have amassed over the past 4 years if they'd had someone who wasn't utterly inept at the head of their party.

[Xyonai]

I still can't get over how he was gloating about the trouble blue states have had/been having with the virus during that last debate. Like...in what world is that sort of bullshit going to do anything other than alienate people?

I can't imagine how much more power the GOP could have amassed over the past 4 years if they'd had someone who wasn't utterly inept at the head of their party.

I think it goes to show the gap between the Trump base and the GOP's leadership, honestly. The GOP's leadership are conniving and - more or less - smart enough to know how to game the system and dogwhistle enough to keep their radical elements both engaged yet placated enough not to commit random acts of violence (for the most part).

But Trump says all that quiet shit out loud and the base loves it, so they flock to him without realizing that just saying all the quiet shit out loud at an ever growing volume just serves to isolate people who aren't on board. And, like Trump, the base will double down on all sorts of stupid shit and only isolate other non-conservatives at more personal levels.

[Gorsameth]

Well that, and of course encourage everyone you know to vote. Turnout is a big deal.

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For added hilarity:

I don't think what Hunter Biden is accused of is illegal
-- Vladamir Putin

No, really. Putin weighed in enough to say he doesn't really care, but doesn't think anything wrong happened. I guess Trump didn't turn out to be a valuable asset after all.

Trump winning was a cherry on top for Putin, the real goal was always chaos and dividing the American people.
And 1 look at America will tell you that he won, Bigly.

[Breccia]

Bla bla bla trade war, bla bla bla China, bla bla bla sanctions US military firms because Taiwan bla bla bla good and easy to win.

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The president doesn’t need to change the trajectory of the race because the trajectory of the race is strongly in his favor with a massive tailwind behind him

-- McEnemy, when asked directly about Trump's chances

[DingDongKing]

Bla bla bla trade war, bla bla bla China, bla bla bla sanctions US military firms because Taiwan bla bla bla good and easy to win.

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-- McEnemy, when asked directly about Trump's chances

[Redwyrm]

snip

Those aren't tailwinds...

[Fincayra]

This reminded me of an almost 2 year old video


If anyone doesn't want to watch, basically a still grieving father, supporting trump, despite all the other terrible stuff like the racism and islamaphobia, simply because of trump's promise to fight the heroin epidemic. Went to dozens of rallies, wrote songs etc etc. Well trump got elected, tried to repeal obamacare, tore down centers to help addiction simply due to his hatred of obama, and well, I'm sure this guy's not the only one with a similar story to tell, and not the only one who voted trump in 2016 and won't be this time around.

There's all sorts of single-issue things that people can support candidates over. That is a great one, if the candidate was actually going to follow through with it.

Fool me once, shame on me. That guy don't look like he's someone to be fooled twice.

[Breccia]

trump's promise to fight the heroin epidemic.

I don't get single-issue voters, for the most part. There aren't a lot of single-issue political jobs, after all.

THe problem with attracting single-issue voters is that you have to deliver on that single issue. That's why Trump is losing coal, oil, and steel. That's why Trump is what do you have to losing the African-American vote. At least farmers he turned into socialists, so he probably still has them.

[Adam Jensen]

And this is really one of the biggest condemnations of Trump you can find. Any halfwit incumbent could have used a national disaster to ride the wave of nationalist sentiment to reelection in a landslide.

How To Lead Through A Pandemic:

1. Get advice from an expert
2. Follow said advice

That's . . . that's pretty much it.

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Bla bla bla trade war, bla bla bla China, bla bla bla sanctions US military firms because Taiwan bla bla bla good and easy to win.

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-- McEnemy, when asked directly about Trump's chances

If there is a hell, somewhere down there Goebbels is looking at McEnany and then doing a facepalm.

[DingDongKing]

How To Lead Through A Pandemic:

1. Get advice from an expert
2. Follow said advice

That's . . . that's pretty much it.

That's the thing that has baffled me the most. What political advantage is there to ignoring the science? Apart from enabling conspiracy theorists.

Had he embraced science, listened to the experts and put a proper pandemic response in place, he'd have probably won swing voters even.

[Katchii]

That's the thing that has baffled me the most. What political advantage is there to ignoring the science? Apart from enabling conspiracy theorists.

Has he embraced science, listened to the experts and put a proper pandemic response in place, he'd have probably won swing voters even.

I don't think it had anything to do with the science, not directly anyway. Many of the people that follow him are not intelligent enough to understand or follow it, because they care far too much about "muh freedumb" that they couldn't care less about the science. He played the popularity contest with those people so he could maybe get votes from them. Turns out, there's a lot more people a lot smarter than that.

A marginal amount of faith in humanity restored....

[Breccia]

Trump picks up an endorsement: the NYPost, I know, big surprise there.

But um...

We can return to the explosive job creation, rising wages and general prosperity we had before the pandemic

Hold on. Were we seeing "explosive" job growth, wage growth, and prospperity?

Well you know what that means.

@DocSavageFan
@lockedout
@GreenJesus
@Thwart
@Ghostpanther
@Zeth Hawkins
@Hammerfest
@the game
@Derpleton
@Healing Rain

You have 24 hours to find the evidence of "explosive" key word, job growth, wage growth, and prosperity. And bear in mind, any numbers you can find for Trump, I can find for Obama.

Looks like you'll end up with one of these results:

1) You find numbers that did, in fact, "explode" by being much higher than Obama's numbers.

2) You find numbers that are Obama-like, maybe a little higher. Now, that'd still be good evidence for you, just, you know, not the NYPost's endorsement so much. If Trump did about the same as Obama, why have Trump when we have a perfectly good Biden? It's not really an endorsement if you say "eh, they're about the same".

3) You find the numbers are actually worse than Obama's (sharpens knives, waits for job numbers, cackles gleefully)

4) You don't even bother looking, I get to answer for you, and you admit you're cowards for refusing to look.

Bear in mind, you're not directly defending Trump this time. It's okay to say "the NYPost was wrong". The NYPost is not Trump. Granted, you'd be poking holes in the reason for the endorsement of Trump, but you wouldn't, you know, die of shame for failing to support your Orange God.

And I'm fully aware you already have a 24-hour challenge, but hey, does it really matter how many challenges I give you if you never do any of them?

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What political advantage is there to ignoring the science?

Trump wanted things to go well while he was in charge. Covering his ears and yelling LALALALALA I AM NOT LISTENING wasn't really a political move in the sense that it didn't help the party or the country. He just, you know, wanted things to be yuge and bigly.

Trump has proven, over and over, that he wants the respect and title of the office while not doing anything the role requires. Reagan might have come first, but Trump is our first acting President. He has no plans, he offers no leadership, he broke nearly every promise and things are objectively worse now than when he started, because Mr. Only I Can Fix It didn't fix it, blocked others from fixing it, and denied there was a problem.

There was no political advantage, unless somehow the whole thing went away...which, again, would be ignoring science. It was purely about ego and keeping his job, while refusing to do his job.

[Kaleredar]

That's the thing that has baffled me the most. What political advantage is there to ignoring the science? Apart from enabling conspiracy theorists.

Has he embraced science, listened to the experts and put a proper pandemic response in place, he'd have probably won swing voters even.

I think early on trump made the decision to try and maintain the “everything is fine” narrative, and has hard-stuck to that, owing to his inability to admit fault or having made a wrong decision, despite the fact that things are obviously anything but fine. That’s why he’s pushing for schools reopening an other bad ideas and threatening to withhold funding from those that attempt to listen to the actual experts; they all denigrate that “everything is fine” narrative he’s hitched his wagon to.

As to why he chose that bad course of action in the first place... I proffer that Trump has never been interested in leading... anything. He’s really more about handing out his whims and having people execute them or handing out token documents while he relaxes and makes money. A national pandemic, even listening to experts, would require some modicum of both action AND tact from him, neither of which he wants to do or has, respectively.

[DingDongKing]

Trump wanted things to go well while he was in charge. Covering his ears and yelling LALALALALA I AM NOT LISTENING wasn't really a political move in the sense that it didn't help the party or the country. He just, you know, wanted things to be yuge and bigly.

Trump has proven, over and over, that he wants the respect and title of the office while not doing anything the role requires. Reagan might have come first, but Trump is our first acting President. He has no plans, he offers no leadership, he broke nearly every promise and things are objectively worse now than when he started, because Mr. Only I Can Fix It didn't fix it, blocked others from fixing it, and denied there was a problem.

There was no political advantage, unless somehow the whole thing went away...which, again, would be ignoring science. It was purely about ego and keeping his job, while refusing to do his job.

That's what I find so ridiculous. Without trivialising the lives lost, he could've legitimised himself as a great leader by just doing his god damn job.

What's worse is the more you think of it, the easier it would've been for him to genuinely just hire the best and then take the credit for it all.

His entire time in office has been an exercise in proving the bravado is often accompanied by sheet incompetence and cowardice.

I think early on trump made the decision to try and maintain the “everything is fine” narrative, and has hard-stuck to that, owing to his inability to admit fault or having made a wrong decision, despite the fact that things are obviously anything but fine. That’s why he’s pushing for schools reopening an other bad ideas and threatening to withhold funding from those that attempt to listen to the actual experts; they all denigrate that “everything is fine” narrative he’s hitched his wagon to.

As to why he chose that bad course of action in the first place... I proffer that Trump has never been interested in leading... anything. He’s really more about handing out his whims and having people execute them or handing out token documents while he relaxes and makes money. A national pandemic, even listening to experts, would require some modicum of both action AND tact from him, neither of which he wants to do or has, respectively.

So many leaders want to show how amazingly capable they are in the trenches. And here's Trump who is like...ME NO LIKE TRENCHES!

[Breccia]

I think early on trump made the decision to try and maintain the “everything is fine” narrative, and has hard-stuck to that, owing to his inability to admit fault or having made a wrong decision, despite the fact that things are obviously anything but fine.

He told Woodward that he didn't want to create a panic. Which is what I would say, if I was caught being over two hundred thousand deaths worth of wrong, and had to justify not saying or doing anything.

[Redwyrm]

I think early on trump made the decision to try and maintain the “everything is fine” narrative, and has hard-stuck to that, owing to his inability to admit fault or having made a wrong decision, despite the fact that things are obviously anything but fine. That’s why he’s pushing for schools reopening an other bad ideas and threatening to withhold funding from those that attempt to listen to the actual experts; they all denigrate that “everything is fine” narrative he’s hitched his wagon to.

As to why he chose that bad course of action in the first place... I proffer that Trump has never been interested in leading... anything. He’s really more about handing out his whims and having people execute them or handing out token documents while he relaxes and makes money. A national pandemic, even listening to experts, would require some modicum of both action AND tact from him, neither of which he wants to do or has, respectively.

I agree. Trump is like the opposite of the Boy Who Cried Wolf. Trump is the President Who Cried Positive Numbers. He hoped that the pandemic would blow over and that the economy wouldn't take a hit. The two meme's that come to mind are





Because this is all Trump knows what to do. The sad thing is there are still a lot of the American population that keep falling for the same bullshit.

[Kaleredar]

He told Woodward that he didn't want to create a panic. Which is what I would say, if I was caught being over two hundred thousand deaths worth of wrong, and had to justify not saying or doing anything.

And yet we still had people buying the hell out of toilet paper.

It’s oddly ironic to hear Trump parroting China’s talking points for why they kept everything buttoned up until it had spread too much for them to contain when he’s also trying to lay the blame squarely on them. Maybe some panic was necessary, here, people.

Can you imagine what a different world we’d be in if we just shut everything down for like three weeks back in April and made everyone, everywhere, wear masks for a few months?

We’d be in a lot bette financial situation, that’s for damn sure, hard shut down or not, and a lot of people would still be alive.