Neuralink to Demonstrate AI/Brain Interface (Elon Musk)

[cubby]

Do you even read what you're linking?

A proposal means nothing, it is essentially a brainstorm idea. Currently there is no Hyperloop being built in Australia - the predicted price tag between Melbourne and Sydney (according to your link) is $40 billion FFS. After an economy hard hit by some of the world's most harsh pandemic restrictions, on top of the already planned rail and highway infrastructure upgrades (some of which are already under construction) - do you honestly think they're going to start throwing billions next year on this thing?

Someone needs to slap you back into reality.

Even if you add them, including test sides (and that's being generous), that still doesn't add up to dozens. You're not very good at math.

Yeah, I do - I'm wondering if you ever understood my initial position. And I love that you're already arguing about the definition of what I meant in the first place. It still baffles me that you so desperate to die on this hill.

And now, because of your I-can't-admit-when-I'm-wrong (in an argument that was never yours in the first place) you are literally proving me correct, again, by arguing the details of the proposal.

My position has always been that Hyperloop is a legitimate project that dozens of countries and cities are in various stages of projects - including at the start, like your example above for Australia. It's beyond baffling that you put down an entire paragraph that literally proves me right, and then have the laughable audacity to ask if I need to be slapped back into reality.

Now, if you're confused by my position, or need clarification about this sub-discussion, just ask. If you want to dive into the economic implications of countries that headed for a deep recession starting up multi-billion dollar projects that shouldn't be anyone's priority, let's chat. I'm all ears.

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That's just a test tube. They made one in Las Vegas years ago, what eventuated from that? Wasn't there supposed to be a Hyperloop between LA and SF? Here's what'll happen: a proposal will be made, then there'll be feasibility studies done. And those studies will find that not only there will be technical issues, but the economic cost will be too great. Take that to the bank, there's a good reason why there's no fully functional Hyperloop anywhere in the world. Do you realise how expensive it is to maintain a vacuum tube that long?

Here's an article further expanding into that. A pertinent quote:

Proposals are part of ongoing projects, they are in fact the first stage of them - as well as RFP's. Those have always been part of my count when tallying up who is currently working on Hyperloop projects.

And I've never attempted to argue the economics of the Hyperloop, just to be clear.

Might want to revisit your expectations there.

What do you think my expectations are and have been? I'm just curious since you're questioning them.
(also - this might sound snarky, but it's not meant that way - this is our first conversation on this topic, and you bring up some very legitimate concerns about the veracity and viability of the Hyperloop - hence the question )

[Fargus]

Yeah, I do - I'm wondering if you ever understood my initial position. And I love that you're already arguing about the definition of what I meant in the first place. It still baffles me that you so desperate to die on this hill.

And now, because of your I-can't-admit-when-I'm-wrong (in an argument that was never yours in the first place) you are literally proving me correct, again, by arguing the details of the proposal.

Ha, this is coming from the same guy who can't use the word "dozens" properly. Hilarious.

Fact of the matter is, just because something is proposed does not mean it is a project. You are getting the two mixed up. Is the Australian component a proposal or project? Which one is it?

Now, if you're confused by my position, or need clarification about this sub-discussion, just ask. If you want to dive into the economic implications of countries that headed for a deep recession starting up multi-billion dollar projects that shouldn't be anyone's priority, let's chat. I'm all ears.

There is no confusion at all. You link a random article from a blogger and take it as gospel, without understanding the economic situation of the area. Being an actual local, I'm well aware that the Victorian and NSW governments are not going to spend $40 billion (which is being generous) on something that hasn't even been proven to work (as per Musk's initial claims) during a recession. Victoria right now have actually started some infrastructure projects in the past couple of years, which includes extensions to the underground rail network, a rail airport link and an extension of one of the main arterial highways that serve the north-east metro area. That would actually be classified as a project because it's already been funded and work has already been started (surveying/clearing of land/etc). There's a difference between some bureaucrat saying "let's build a vacuum tube hundreds of kilometres along" and actually building one.

I mean christ on a pogo stick, there hasn't even been a feasibility study done with the Australian one and you're already slapping "project" on it like it's going to be some kind of eventuality. Do you even know the difference between a proposal and a project? "Proposals are part of ongoing projects", well no, I guess you don't. The former comes before the latter, a proposal still needs an official rubber stamp and the funding.

[Burgerberg]

Proposals are part of ongoing projects, they are in fact the first stage of them - as well as RFP's. Those have always been part of my count when tallying up who is currently working on Hyperloop projects.

And I've never attempted to argue the economics of the Hyperloop, just to be clear.

Proposals are....... proposals. I could propose baking a cake the size of the Giza pyramids, doesn't mean I've a project underway to actually bake one. The economics tie into the problems such engineering projects will face.

What do you think my expectations are and have been? I'm just curious since you're questioning them.
(also - this might sound snarky, but it's not meant that way - this is our first conversation on this topic, and you bring up some very legitimate concerns about the veracity and viability of the Hyperloop - hence the question )

You are posting a lot about various development projects that haven't even got off the ground yet, like they're a given. The problem with engineering and the economics go hand in hand. In order to overcome some of these engineering hurdles, you have to spend big. The initial tests done don't go even remotely close to what the original hype was all about, but suddenly they're confident that they're going to get these systems up and running like magic? I recall a site was linked to you regarding the engineering issues, have you even addressed them? Do you have any engineering experience at all? Or with large construction projects?

[cubby]

Ha, this is coming from the same guy who can't use the word "dozens" properly. Hilarious.

Fact of the matter is, just because something is proposed does not mean it is a project. You are getting the two mixed up. Is the Australian component a proposal or project? Which one is it?

Then we can disagree on the wording. Is this what you've come to? Picking up someone's dead argument and then losing the same way they did?

There is no confusion at all. You link a random article from a blogger and take it as gospel, without understanding the economic situation of the area. Being an actual local, I'm well aware that the Victorian and NSW governments are not going to spend $40 billion (which is being generous) on something that hasn't even been proven to work (as per Musk's initial claims) during a recession. Victoria right now have actually started some infrastructure projects in the past couple of years, which includes extensions to the underground rail network, a rail airport link and an extension of one of the main arterial highways that serve the north-east metro area. That would actually be classified as a project because it's already been funded and work has already been started (surveying/clearing of land/etc). There's a difference between some bureaucrat saying "let's build a vacuum tube hundreds of kilometres along" and actually building one.

I mean christ on a pogo stick, there hasn't even been a feasibility study done with the Australian one and you're already slapping "project" on it like it's going to be some kind of eventuality. Do you even know the difference between a proposal and a project? "Proposals are part of ongoing projects", well no, I guess you don't. The former comes before the latter, a proposal still needs an official rubber stamp and the funding.

And all this, just going on some diatribe because you don't understand how RFP's work in the adult world. Your arguments about the feasibility literally prove me right - that's what proposals do, evaluate feasibility and ascertain interest to move forward. Since you also seem to have trouble going back through a thread you never were a part of previously, and finding material that's been posted, keep in mind that originally this sub-discussion was initiated by someone who linked a youtube video as "evidence" that these dozens of countries and cities and companies (FOUR now) are all somehow wrong.

When you figure all that out, you'll see that my entire point has been about the fact that DOZENS of countries and cities are working on various stages of Hyperloop projects. End of statement. Let me know if you're confused about that, and we can chat. But this juvenile attempt to play *GOTCHA* with words you don't understand is beneath you.

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Proposals are....... proposals. I could propose baking a cake the size of the Giza pyramids, doesn't mean I've a project underway to actually bake one. The economics tie into the problems such engineering projects will face.

They are indeed, and I include them in my count. If I erred in making that clear before, my apologies.

You are posting a lot about various development projects that haven't even got off the ground yet, like they're a given.

And again, if I wasn't clear before, that was my bad. You are entirely correct that many of the projects are still in various stages of either early development or within the RFP process.

The problem with engineering and the economics go hand in hand. In order to overcome some of these engineering hurdles, you have to spend big. The initial tests done don't go even remotely close to what the original hype was all about, but suddenly they're confident that they're going to get these systems up and running like magic? I recall a site was linked to you regarding the engineering issues, have you even addressed them? Do you have any engineering experience at all? Or with large construction projects?

Good point. This entire conversation started when Kerplunk offered a youtube video that somehow debunked the entire Hyperloop concept. My counter point to him, and where this discussion has now led, is that there are dozens of cities and countries along with four separate companies working on various stages of the Hyperloop concept/project/idea, and that it was beyond ridiculous that some guy in some youtube video had figured out something that multiple genius-level engineers and scientists hadn't. However...

To your question specifically - I have zero engineering training (although I can spell orbital mechanics now thanks to Seveneves) and couldn't even begin to discuss the merits of either the engineering issues nor the large-scale construction project requirements. But those were never my point, and I never have argued otherwise. I'm using other people's data and links to demonstrate my point regarding the veracity of the overall concept.

And to further address what might be your next question, yes, it's entirely possible that Hyperloop won't work - there are many issues still to be resolved. But there is also enough science and engineering already established that dozens of "groups" are moving forward with various stages of Hyperloop projects.

[vergasiv]

Elon Musk always predicts progress "in the next few years" so we should take his predictions with a massive grain of salt, even though I think his optimism is correct over the long-term.

[PC2]

Elon Musk always predicts progress "in the next few years" so we should take his predictions with a massive grain of salt, even though I think his optimism is correct over the long-term.

Bot? You literally just copied my sentence from post #2.

[cubby]

Elon Musk always predicts progress "in the next few years" so we should take his predictions with a massive grain of salt, even though I think his optimism is correct over the long-term.

I think this is a pretty fair evaluation of Musk's initiatives. It will be interesting to see how close he keeps to the Moon/Mars timeline. He said recently that SpaceX will miss the 2022 Mars launch window, meaning the first StarShip launch to Mars (which should be a cargo shipment, not people).

Lol re the bot above. That's weird.

[Narwhalosh Whalescream]

Musk promises a lot. I'll believe it when i see it on a video. Ain't getting it myself though unless i get disabled.

[The Butt Witch]

Nobody is gonna undergo surgery to put chips in their brains unless they really have to.

It's a great advance in technology but it will never be mainstream.

[cubby]

Musk promises a lot. I'll believe it when i see it on a video. Ain't getting it myself though unless i get disabled.

It's probably going to be primarily for that field (the disabled). However, if they find a low-cost way to put it into people's heads with some kind of direct stimulus feed, well, that could have immense consumer implications.

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Nobody is gonna undergo surgery to put chips in their brains unless they really have to.

It's a great advance in technology but it will never be mainstream.

Some people might - especially the severely disabled. And if it leads to some kind of direct neural input to the senses, well, that's the ballgame. Think playing WoW with just your mind....

[Edge-]

Some people might - especially the severely disabled. And if it leads to some kind of direct neural input to the senses, well, that's the ballgame. Think playing WoW with just your mind....

Some of that tech already exists without brain implants. I worked on a game that had mind control for certain elements of it, and it straight up fuckin worked which blew my god damn socks off. Not like, super well, but it worked. And this was a small indie team.

I'm not, however, keen to let a private company into my brain for any reason. Especially one owned by Elon Musk. Like, I like the guys companies for the most part, but he's a right piece of shit and I don't fuckin trust him.

[cubby]

Some of that tech already exists without brain implants. I worked on a game that had mind control for certain elements of it, and it straight up fuckin worked which blew my god damn socks off. Not like, super well, but it worked. And this was a small indie team.

I'm not, however, keen to let a private company into my brain for any reason. Especially one owned by Elon Musk. Like, I like the guys companies for the most part, but he's a right piece of shit and I don't fuckin trust him.

Agreed - I've heard of some of it about a decade ago. Friend of mine was working on the software that would allow prosthetic users to "know" where their arm was when they couldn't see it - like you always have "situational awareness" even if you can't see your arm/foot. I would be very interested to see what you described, however, because that sounds pretty awesome. Especially the outside-the-brain control interface.

Regarding actually putting interfaces inside our brains...that event, whenever it happens, will be the touchstone to a division amongst the human race as to what constitutes being "human".

And the ethics of being able to tinker with someone's mind should not necessarily be left up to Elon Musk.

[PC2]

Some of that tech already exists without brain implants. I worked on a game that had mind control for certain elements of it, and it straight up fuckin worked which blew my god damn socks off. Not like, super well, but it worked. And this was a small indie team.

I'm not, however, keen to let a private company into my brain for any reason. Especially one owned by Elon Musk. Like, I like the guys companies for the most part, but he's a right piece of shit and I don't fuckin trust him.

Why is Musk a POS? Anyone who disagrees with you on policy is a POS and can't legitimately have a different position than yours?

[Edge-]

Anyone who disagrees with you on policy is a POS and can't legitimately have a different position than yours?

I mean, why ask questions if you're going to put words in my mouth when asking?

[PC2]

I mean, why ask questions if you're going to put words in my mouth when asking?

As far as I know he's not a bad person so if someone thinks he's a POS then it's either because they're jealous of him being rich, they disagree on government policy, or they're mad about something his parents did in South Africa. None of which are reasons to view another person as being a piece of shit.

[Edge-]

As far as I know he's not a bad person so if someone thinks he's a POS then it's either because they're jealous of him being rich, they disagree on government policy, or they're mad about something his parents did in South Africa.

Or none of the above. Again, if you want to make up arguments for someone else, why even bother asking a question? Just have the argument with their fictional position.

[cubby]

Or none of the above. Again, if you want to make up arguments for someone else, why even bother asking a question? Just have the argument with their fictional position.

I would actually be curious as to where your strong opinion of Musk comes from.

[Edge-]

I would actually be curious as to where your opinion of Musk originates.

Mostly, his massive reinvention of himself as the "cool executive" and the fact that while he's inarguably brilliant in many, many regards, he's also a massive fuckin piece of shit in many others. His push to reopen his Tesla plan in defiance of the Alameda county closure orders due to covid was a particular move that stuck in my craw, along with his, "If they arrest anyone let it be me!" bullshit. Nobody cares. If he gets arrested he posts bond immediately and there are no consequences, he's filthy rich. If his employees do, they better hope they have lawyers.

The way his companies like Tesla grow, with years of massive losses built on "future profitability" that they've largely hit, but remains an issue overall.

His whole, "I'LL SAVE THE KIDS STUCK IN A CAVE!" nonsense that ended up with him in court over calling an expert diver a "pedo guy" where he somehow successfully argued that it didn't mean a "pedophile" because stupid reasons.

Personally, he seems like a right fuckin piece of shit much of the time.

That being said, I largely like what his companies do, specifically thanks to the amazing people working there. Tesla has been incredible, and seeing the cars get better while the company expands in to more solar and battery technology, including battery farms in Australia that apparently resolved a lot of issues is great. SpaceX is arguably one of the most exciting technology companies around right now, and the fact that they did the impossible and continue to scare the shit outta the old and decrepit aerospace industry is rad as hell. I legit loved watching the Falcon Heavy test. I like what his goals are for the Boring Company, and even if shit like the flamethrowers is whatever (cool, but pointless) I've long dreamed of "underground cities" in a sense, or at least underground parking and transportation tunnels, as a solution for a lot of the congestion problems in cities.

His companies are great. He as a person, seems like a piece of shit. It's not because he's rich and super successful in the slightest. Bill Gates is rich and super successful, but he's not a garbage person about it. He's not perfect, nobody is, but he's not a right narcissi shitdick.

And sorry, but given the ongoing expansive issues with privacy in the digital world, I ain't about to let ANY company get more information than I have to give them. And letting any one of them into my fuckin brain? Fuck right the hell off literally forever.

[cubby]

Mostly, his massive reinvention of himself as the "cool executive" and the fact that while he's inarguably brilliant in many, many regards, he's also a massive fuckin piece of shit in many others. His push to reopen his Tesla plan in defiance of the Alameda county closure orders due to covid was a particular move that stuck in my craw, along with his, "If they arrest anyone let it be me!" bullshit. Nobody cares. If he gets arrested he posts bond immediately and there are no consequences, he's filthy rich. If his employees do, they better hope they have lawyers.

The way his companies like Tesla grow, with years of massive losses built on "future profitability" that they've largely hit, but remains an issue overall.

His whole, "I'LL SAVE THE KIDS STUCK IN A CAVE!" nonsense that ended up with him in court over calling an expert diver a "pedo guy" where he somehow successfully argued that it didn't mean a "pedophile" because stupid reasons.

Personally, he seems like a right fuckin piece of shit much of the time.

That being said, I largely like what his companies do, specifically thanks to the amazing people working there. Tesla has been incredible, and seeing the cars get better while the company expands in to more solar and battery technology, including battery farms in Australia that apparently resolved a lot of issues is great. SpaceX is arguably one of the most exciting technology companies around right now, and the fact that they did the impossible and continue to scare the shit outta the old and decrepit aerospace industry is rad as hell. I legit loved watching the Falcon Heavy test. I like what his goals are for the Boring Company, and even if shit like the flamethrowers is whatever (cool, but pointless) I've long dreamed of "underground cities" in a sense, or at least underground parking and transportation tunnels, as a solution for a lot of the congestion problems in cities.

His companies are great. He as a person, seems like a piece of shit. It's not because he's rich and super successful in the slightest. Bill Gates is rich and super successful, but he's not a garbage person about it. He's not perfect, nobody is, but he's not a right narcissi shitdick.

And sorry, but given the ongoing expansive issues with privacy in the digital world, I ain't about to let ANY company get more information than I have to give them. And letting any one of them into my fuckin brain? Fuck right the hell off literally forever.

Thanks for that. And I can't really disagree about Musk's personal shitiness. Still not sure how he got away with the pedo remark in court.

His commercial success is what I admire about his. Especially the long-term potential of SpaceX and how it's boostrapping literally the world into 21st century space exploration (Mars window in 2024) and a moon colony and orbital base.

Basically, I agree with you.

[Elegiac]

I would actually be curious as to where your strong opinion of Musk comes from.

Insulting people.

Insulting people and saying public transport sucks.

Spreading misinformation.

Pushing blame for not meeting his promises onto others.

Being a capitalist piece of shit. See also: here, here, here, and here.

Attacking the press for investigating his shady business practices.

Outright stealing concepts and claiming them as his own, like the hyperloop. He also does nothing to disabuse people of the false notion he created Tesla (he didn't).

Being a capitalist piece of shit, part deux.

Oh, and his clownery regarding the cave incident in Thailand.