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  1. #441
    Bloodsail Admiral Misuteri's Avatar
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    You can keep the cap permanent at “X”.

    They introduced legendaries, Azerite etc and all they have to do is get rid of one system and make leveling attached to the next “system”. You do a zone, get to the end of questing and the main lore character for that zone powers up or unlocks one branch/tree of the next “system”.

    Weapon, necklace, cape, helm, etc. Just pick a piece every expansion. I’m surprised they didn’t do something like the Lich King helm for “power” in Shadowlands.
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  2. #442
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    If you buy WoW fresh now you get Vanilla through Legion with the base game and then need to buy BfA separately.
    Soon(tm) you will get Vanilla through BfA with the base game and need to buy SL separately.
    The prepatch gave BfA (and any 1-50 content) for free with game time or a subscription.
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  3. #443
    I don't mind permanent level cap.GW made it work why not WoW too?
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  4. #444
    Nah, the game will be discontinued long before the need for another level squish, and I don't see the point of reverting back to 50 every two years

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by sykoex View Post
    So classic wow characters will be higher level than retail characters when they release classic TBC and classic Wrath? Kind of ironic.
    Exactly because of this i don't think this will happen. I think they go on with 70, change the previous content up to 60 and we go on.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Exactly because of this i don't think this will happen. I think they go on with 70, change the previous content up to 60 and we go on.
    I mean if TBC servers come out next year, that will happen, and classic servers will be ahead of retail until they stop progressing.

  7. #447
    Well, I don't think that's what's gonna happen. Revert lvl 60 players down to lvl 50 to have to lvl 60 again? It would feel even more like a treadmill than it does now.
    A paragon system as some people mentioned would be awful, it sucked in D3 and if it comes to WoW I'll be gone for good.(though to be honest, AP isn't far from it.)
    What I find far more likely is to get rid of leveling all together for max lvl players. I mean remember your last few expansions uplvl experiences. It was mostly finish area after area as quickly as possible, ideally with addons like autopilot, and reach max lvl so you can do anything meaningful.
    Thus what I'd predict would be an expansion system, where they add new areas and content, but no new levels. You'll still basically have to play through the expansion's areas, in order to get Dungeons/Raids to open, maybe a few new talents/skills could be tied to a certain quest or whatever, but you'll not get any lvl ups.
    Last edited by Grmmppff; 2020-10-26 at 02:00 PM.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    It would be a very elegant solution actuallyand pretty smart to just convert everyone above 50 back to 50 and the new expac would always be 50-60.

    Also convert the latest expansion to the "core leveling" to new players (like BfA is now).
    Everything else can be accessed by Chromie time.

    It is set up perfectly and there is literally no drawback. They could cut future development required for another squish and numbers would never get too high again.
    Basically this. Just reset / squish any character over 50 back to 50 for all subsequent expacs. They don't need to squish or mess with any of the previous expacs zones at all this way, and don't have to mess with low characters or stats or XP. Every thing under 50 stays set once the tuning is cleaned up.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  9. #449
    I personally dont mind if they just removed leveling at the start of a new expansion overall. The only real purpose it serves is a buffer to make the new green gear better then your previous epics.

    This way people could potentially get more out of questing in zones because it wouldnt feel like something you had to rush through to get to max level and start gearing.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Grmmppff View Post
    Well, I don't think that's what's gonna happen. Revert lvl 60 players down to lvl 50 to have to lvl 60 again? It would feel even more like a treadmill than it does now.
    A paragon system as some people mentioned would be awful, it sucked in D3 and if it comes to WoW I'll be gone for good.(though to be honest, AP isn't far from it.)
    What I find far more likely is to get rid of leveling all together for max lvl players. I mean remember your last few expansions uplvl experiences. It was mostly finish area after area as quickly as possible, ideally with addons like autopilot, and reach max lvl so you can do anything meaningful.
    Thus what I'd predict would be an expansion system, where they add new areas and content, but no new levels. You'll still basically have to play through the expansion's areas, in order to get Dungeons/Raids to open, maybe a few new talents/skills could be tied to a certain quest or whatever, but you'll not get any lvl ups.
    That's just Paragon with a different name. That said, that would be my choice as well. Leave max level at 50 or 60,then for each new expac we don't gain character levels but instead we level the mechanic of the expac. Like Garrison or artifact weapon, or artifact necklace,etc.

    Dungeons and raids would unlock based on the expac mechanic level.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
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  11. #451
    I always like the consistency between classic > tbc and wrath, you went from classic into tbc and you felt a power gain a noticeable improvement from where you were prior but then the scaling happened and the squishes happened and now you're back to where you were 10 years ago. I don't like scaling that much it ruins the consistency of power, you can have a mob that scales from solo-able to being a raid boss. just no consistency there. I don't really see why they can't just keep increasing the level cap, but you did notice that after wrath they pretty much gave up adding new talent tiers or abilities and just changed or removed the ones that existed. it used to be interesting going into an expansion and wondering how your class will change and what it will gain, but there hasn't been much permanent gain.

    does it really matter how high the levels go or are ppl not able to cope with large numbers, what about numbers that are just modified with K or M at the end. its funny really because the longer it goes on, the more like an incremental it seems. but there isn't a whole lot of permanent gain in the game, you go through an expansion and end up worst than when you started. all this scaling and squishing just feels very arbitrary to me. at this stage the player power has just been knee capped twice in a row, it was squished for bfa and squished for SL. you're back to what you were like before legion, as if that expansion and bfa didn't happen. perhaps mmos like this only work when the numbers are small and the power creep takes months if not years to max out. just put a lid on expansions and change over entirely to horizontal progression.

    something about nerfing everyone into oblivion just so there is room to claw your way back to where you were pre-nerf. there is some sort of irony there. I think the game was fun when there was a clear power gain, but at this point you're just paying to do what you've already done over and over again. its not really moving forward any more it just periodically gets pushed back very little if anything remains, remember when glyphs were part of the min/max and integral to your spec and output, now they are just cosmetic, this just happens over and over again nothing is persistent. some gimmicky mechanic or progression system comes in and is abandoned there after.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-10-26 at 03:28 PM.

  12. #452
    No thanks, I want to feel my progression, not to be randomly downsized every single xpac and then level up to the same number as before. That's be TERRIBLE.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post
    No thanks, I want to feel my progression, not to be randomly downsized every single xpac and then level up to the same number as before. That's be TERRIBLE.
    But that's what you're doing any way until you get to 121.
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  14. #454
    I refuse to play BFA as new characters because the shitty Horde main city is designed to have Flying and when you don't it blows ass and most of the zones on Horde for that batter are terribly designed for Land mounts. So I gladly level all of my characters that were made after WOTLK in BC because it was my favorite expansion. Any characters I have made Pre WOTLK have already done most of the quests so I have to play Legion since I hated that xpac as well so I only leveled 2 characters there as well.

  15. #455
    The only scenario I could see this working with the least amount of issues and player pushback would be if player levels were removed completely. The inherent problem of resetting to 50 every new expansion (with the most recent old expansion going 1-50) is that cycling between 50->60->50->60...etc. is that the levels of that bracket are rendered meaningless. Basically it makes level squish happen every expansion versus the first time in 15 years. I don't think the players would respond to that well at all. If you remove levels, you basically bake in stat squishes occasionally to keep numbers reasonable. However, there a ton of of issues still with level removal when it comes to how the game is designed, and that list is so long that I don't even want to get into it... yet I still think it's better than cycling between 50 and 60 every expansion.

    Now, I think that the long-term goal would be to squish back down to 50 several expansions down the road when most people have memory-holed this level squish, i.e. we go another 15 years then level squish again with all prior expansions put into the 1-50 bracket. Whether they stick with that is the question. The inherent issue is that this mentality of resetting level progress is typically done with non-MMO seasonal games, such as PoE/Diablo 3/etc. In the end, it would be a major mentality shift for WoW to make this happen, and (again) I don't think the players would respond well to it.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2020-10-26 at 05:20 PM.
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  16. #456
    Over 9000! Lahis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    The inherent issue is that this mentality of resetting level progress is typically done with non-MMO seasonal games, such as PoE/Diablo 3/etc. In the end, it would be a major mentality shift for WoW to make this happen, and (again) I don't think the players would respond well to it.
    WoW already operates like those games anyways. Hell they even renamed tiers to seasons snd every season is complete power reset with hugely increased ilvls and catch up gearing.

  17. #457
    1-50 feels so good right now that I never want to have higher levels again.

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasoka View Post
    No thanks, I want to feel my progression, not to be randomly downsized every single xpac and then level up to the same number as before. That's be TERRIBLE.
    Leveling in a new expansion is not progression. It's completely pointless. The character progression in a new expansion is based 99% on gear and borrowed power systems. Leveling is just something you do for the first 5 hours and then forget. So they should definitely just remove the leveling aspect of new expansions because it is completely meaningless for the character progression anyway.

    In new expansion they should focus character progression on: Gear, Reputations and Professions.

    Leveling in new expansions is shit.

  19. #459
    I hope this isn't true.


    I quit guild wars 2 because their expansions are like this. Its awful feeling like your character never makes any progress. Removing new levels from WoW would be an instant game over for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Leveling in a new expansion is not progression. It's completely pointless. The character progression in a new expansion is based 99% on gear and borrowed power systems. Leveling is just something you do for the first 5 hours and then forget. So they should definitely just remove the leveling aspect of new expansions because it is completely meaningless for the character progression anyway.

    In new expansion they should focus character progression on: Gear, Reputations and Professions.

    Leveling in new expansions is shit.

    Pointless.... to you. Your opinion is not shared among everyone. Quit acting like you speak for everyone.

  20. #460
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    I think permanent 60 is what they'd like to do. It would make it a lot simpler each expansion to just roll the expiring one into Chromie's list. That would remove them needing to reinvent the wheel every expansion and decide if it's 5 levels or 10, do another squish, etc.

    But Blizzard does listen to players so right now is kind of the test to see how the new 9.0 leveling model is received. That is what they are hoping for, positive feedback and then they can use this system moving forward.

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