Do people genuinely think the Horde is evil?

[Kiri]

When someone tries to kick you and the rest of your people out from your homes and to imprison you for the actions of one guy, the least you can do is taking up arms. Not only Jaina acted without knowing if her accusations were true against every Sunreaver but she also allowed the Silver Covenant to act without restrictions, therefore becoming responsible for actions like when a High Elf tortured a Sunreaver before letting him fall in the jaws of a shark.

I mean, that's arguing from a point of clear omniscience. If you are making a moral argument, you really need to argue from the character POV, not from the omniscient narrator's.
And when you look at it, Jaina acted on the following knowledge:
- At least one Sunreaver was explicitly involved, but she does not know how many more. At that point, it is only known that the Sunreavers are involved, not who precisely.
- Aethas said that "he did nothing", not even denying his faction's involvement, just that he himself did nothing or did not order it. Jaina has no way of knowing whether or not he is lying and/or even in full control of the Sunreavers.
- Jaina has no idea just how many Sunreavers are actually still neutral and how many are secretly or overtly working for Garrosh, just that at least some of them are.

I still think Jaina jumped to conclusions in this in general and acted too brashly. However, I also find it disingenuous to frame that has 'punishing all for the action of one'. We don't know if she would have done that one. We only know that she knew that members of the faction betrayed her and that she decided to imprison them all to send them back to the Horde, but show no mercy to those who resist. You can criticize how she did it, certainly, but do not misrepresent the motivation.

Considering that same shaman was part of a neutral organisation and ended up saving the entire world in that expansion, I would say it was a good thing the SI:7 failed with their task.
Also, members of the Alliande tried to do the same thing on multiple occasions, Jaina against Orgrimmar in Tides of War, Daelin during the founding of Orgrimmar against both orcs and trolls, Garithos against the blood elves and the Alliance against goblin's refugee ships. The Horde just happened to be the faction with the burden to move the narrative forward and so her single attempt to destroy a kingdom in wow was a successful one.

Those aren't great examples, really. The Alliance as a whole decidedly disagreed with Jaina's plan in Tides of War (she only went with that flooding action because the Alliance would not commit to go all destructive on Org) and even then she eventually allowed herself to be talked down. Both Daelin and Garithos were never members of the current Alliance to begin with. Garithos was a relatively low-ranking officer being catapulted in charge of Lordaeron's remaining forces and not acting under Stormwind. Daelin was Kul Tiran hunting down the orcs that just violently escaped their camps and who were building a new base of power in Kalimdor. I admittedly do not know much about what happened with the Goblins, but again the Alliance probably did not even know that these ships were full of goblin refugees to begin with, just 'goblin ships' in general. So they couldn't have possibly been trying to 'destroy a kingdom'.
None of those really match up to the act you are trying to compare it to since they do not just differ in successfulness, but also in just who does it (non-Stormwind Alliance members vs Horde's explicit warchief, people going against explicit Alliance orders and interests) and motivation (not trying to destroy a kingdom). Hence, bad comparison.

[TheRevenantHero]

You seem to quote word meanings and not get the actual usage when it comes to those particular meanings. Nothing you linked implies that destruction does not mean totally gone. Look up the definition of destroy and come back to me? Oh you refuse because it literally says "put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it" from the exact source you used. Destruction according Merriam Webster is the end of something's existence no matter which version of those 3 you use. Process in the 2nd option isn't implying incomplete. It's saying the entire process of culminating in it being gone.

Also your final definition further supports what I said earlier. Sylvanas never had any intent on destroying the night elves as a people. She wanted the military stations gone from Kalimdor so she would have sole access to the azerite. Show me where she said she wanted to wipe the night elves out in particular.

So it's funny how you linked all of these things and called me stupid when you only prove me more correct. You argued earlier it didn't matter intent and then suddenly link it again.

Destruction does in fact mean completely gone and it's right there in the verb destroy.

Genocide requires deliberate and systematic eradication of specific group. They don't need to be wiped out but a large number definitely have to be. Sylvanas wasn't systematically eradicating the Kaldorei so therefore it technically can't be labeled a genocide.

[Raisei]

When you incriminate an entire ethnic group for the action of one of them and instigate a pogrom resulting in multiple deaths, yes, you are a monster.

Yes, well, the Belfs did not cooperate. Aethas could have stopped it all by alerting the Council, yet he chose to follow his mad Warchief and he kept pretending to have no idea what was going on.

The Divine Bell was an incredibly dangerous weapon, that would have annihilated Pandaria if Anduin had not stopped Garrosh.

So tell me, what was Jaina supposed to do when the Belfs are actively hindering her from preventing that? She had no way to know which Sunreaver and which Belf in Dalaran had been helping Garrosh and they did not give her information. Was she to just ignore the issue? Of course she has to arrest them all then. It's not her fault that they attacked her.

[Ardenaso]

Genocide requires deliberate and systematic eradication of specific group. They don't need to be wiped out but a large number definitely have to be. Sylvanas wasn't systematically eradicating the Kaldorei so therefore it technically can't be labeled a genocide.

but she did, from Silverwing Refuge to Astranaar to Maestra's Post to Auberdine to Lor'danel to all of Teldrassil

[TheRevenantHero]

Read the page you're linking to: "Though compliant Sunreavers were imprisoned, many proved defiant in the face of exile from Dalaran and took up arms against Jaina, the Alliance forces, and the Silver Covenant,", when you start waving weapons around, things escalate.

In all fairness, some Silver Covenant opportunists took advantage of the situation, but it's still a far cry from "I'm feeling particularly spiteful today, let's burn an entire city filled with civilians!"

What Jaina and the Silver Covenant was doing was atrocious and innocent blood elves were trying to get away from them. Jaina casually walked through Dalaran through the questline with her elementals straight up murdering fleeing blood elves and imprisoning others. What happened was heinous and vile. I'm sick of Alliance fans brushing it off by saying "The Silver Covenant aren't Alliance". they are definitely allies and Jaina IS part of the Alliance.

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Jaina's goal was arresting and evicting them though. Some of the Belfs decided to attack her while she was trying that. Bad idea. The canon quest texts specifically tell you that the "compliant" Belfs are send to the Violet Hold, only those that fight against the order are killed.

And the only reason why this was even necessary in the first place is that Aethas Sunreaver looked on in silence as the madman Garrosh had a weapons of mass destruction transported through Dalaran. Had he acted, the Purge would not have happened. But I know it is much easier to just paint Jaina as a bloodthirsty monster then accept that the Blood Elves brought it on themselves.

Considering she strolled through Dalaran killing blood elves simply for having the audacity to BE a blood elf, I'm gonna go ahead say she most certainly is a monster. She also fully intended to completely wipe out Orgrimmar before her dragon boyfriend stopped her. But Alliance fans never want to admit that.

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but she did, from Silverwing Refuge to Astranaar to Maestra's Post to Auberdine to Lor'danel to all of Teldrassil

She wasn't eradicating the Kaldorei. She was forcing them to flee during an act of war. If Sylvanas really wanted all the Kaldorei dead, she would have simply started plague bombing all those places.

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I mean, that's arguing from a point of clear omniscience. If you are making a moral argument, you really need to argue from the character POV, not from the omniscient narrator's.
And when you look at it, Jaina acted on the following knowledge:
- At least one Sunreaver was explicitly involved, but she does not know how many more. At that point, it is only known that the Sunreavers are involved, not who precisely.
- Aethas said that "he did nothing", not even denying his faction's involvement, just that he himself did nothing or did not order it. Jaina has no way of knowing whether or not he is lying and/or even in full control of the Sunreavers.
- Jaina has no idea just how many Sunreavers are actually still neutral and how many are secretly or overtly working for Garrosh, just that at least some of them are.

I still think Jaina jumped to conclusions in this in general and acted too brashly. However, I also find it disingenuous to frame that has 'punishing all for the action of one'. We don't know if she would have done that one. We only know that she knew that members of the faction betrayed her and that she decided to imprison them all to send them back to the Horde, but show no mercy to those who resist. You can criticize how she did it, certainly, but do not misrepresent the motivation.



Those aren't great examples, really. The Alliance as a whole decidedly disagreed with Jaina's plan in Tides of War (she only went with that flooding action because the Alliance would not commit to go all destructive on Org) and even then she eventually allowed herself to be talked down. Both Daelin and Garithos were never members of the current Alliance to begin with. Garithos was a relatively low-ranking officer being catapulted in charge of Lordaeron's remaining forces and not acting under Stormwind. Daelin was Kul Tiran hunting down the orcs that just violently escaped their camps and who were building a new base of power in Kalimdor. I admittedly do not know much about what happened with the Goblins, but again the Alliance probably did not even know that these ships were full of goblin refugees to begin with, just 'goblin ships' in general. So they couldn't have possibly been trying to 'destroy a kingdom'.
None of those really match up to the act you are trying to compare it to since they do not just differ in successfulness, but also in just who does it (non-Stormwind Alliance members vs Horde's explicit warchief, people going against explicit Alliance orders and interests) and motivation (not trying to destroy a kingdom). Hence, bad comparison.

The Alliance fired on goblin ships fleeing from Kezan because they were witnesses to the Alliance capturing Thrall. So the Alliance ships were ordered to attack the goblin refugee ships in order to cover up the kidnapping.

[Ardenaso]

She wasn't eradicating the Kaldorei. She was forcing them to flee during an act of war. If Sylvanas really wanted all the Kaldorei dead, she would have simply started plague bombing all those places.

the original plan was to simply capture the tree and occupy it; why did she burn it? she wanted to erase the night elves

[erifwodahs]

Those aren't great examples, really. The Alliance as a whole decidedly disagreed with Jaina's plan in Tides of War (she only went with that flooding action because the Alliance would not commit to go all destructive on Org) and even then she eventually allowed herself to be talked down. Both Daelin and Garithos were never members of the current Alliance to begin with. Garithos was a relatively low-ranking officer being catapulted in charge of Lordaeron's remaining forces and not acting under Stormwind. Daelin was Kul Tiran hunting down the orcs that just violently escaped their camps and who were building a new base of power in Kalimdor. I admittedly do not know much about what happened with the Goblins, but again the Alliance probably did not even know that these ships were full of goblin refugees to begin with, just 'goblin ships' in general. So they couldn't have possibly been trying to 'destroy a kingdom'.
None of those really match up to the act you are trying to compare it to since they do not just differ in successfulness, but also in just who does it (non-Stormwind Alliance members vs Horde's explicit warchief, people going against explicit Alliance orders and interests) and motivation (not trying to destroy a kingdom). Hence, bad comparison.

Horde rebelled against Sylvanas and Garosh who were only supported by loyalists/Korkron just a part of undead and orcs were in for this.
Horde consists of orcs, goblins, trolls, belfs, taurens, highmountain, pandaren, vulpera, nighbourne, Zandalar trolls and Draenor orcs now. Most of them had nothing to do with "Horde" atrocities so saying that Horde as a whole is evil is plain wrong.

[Akka]

I mean Genocide is subjective to the point of view.

I guess if your point about morality is "genocide is relative", it's surprising to no one that you don't see Horde as evil

[Raisei]

Considering she strolled through Dalaran killing blood elves simply for having the audacity to BE a blood elf, I'm gonna go ahead say she most certainly is a monster. She also fully intended to completely wipe out Orgrimmar before her dragon boyfriend stopped her. But Alliance fans never want to admit that.

Even in that quest, which I think is removed by now, she only kills those attacking her. The rest is teleported away. It's stated several times during this quest chain that this is what is happening. Your refusal to accept that does not change it.

And why did she want to destroy Orgrimmar again? Oh... riiight. Because the Horde annihilated her city, murdering some of her closest friends and the leader of the Kirin Tor. Then they proceeded to capture the fleeing civilian refugees, torture them to death and display them proudly. But Horde fans never want to admit that.

[bowlink]

Even in that quest, which I think is removed by now, she only kills those attacking her. The rest is teleported away. It's stated several times during this quest chain that this is what is happening. Your refusal to accept that does not change it.

And why did she want to destroy Orgrimmar again? Oh... riiight. Because the Horde annihilated her city, murdering some of her closest friends and the leader of the Kirin Tor. Then they proceeded to capture the fleeing civilian refugees, torture them to death and display them proudly. But Horde fans never want to admit that.

Don't forget using them as target dummies

[TheRevenantHero]

Even in that quest, which I think is removed by now, she only kills those attacking her. The rest is teleported away. It's stated several times during this quest chain that this is what is happening. Your refusal to accept that does not change it.

And why did she want to destroy Orgrimmar again? Oh... riiight. Because the Horde annihilated her city, murdering some of her closest friends and the leader of the Kirin Tor. Then they proceeded to capture the fleeing civilian refugees, torture them to death and display them proudly. But Horde fans never want to admit that.

No. She also wandered around with her elementals killing blood elves indiscriminately. A lot of them had the fleeing animation going when it happened. And it's also said that shopkeepers were killed despite them having no connection to the Sunreavers. Oh and then there was the the people feeding blood elves to the shark in the Underbelly. So you're incredibly wrong about what went down in the questchain.

Theramore was a legitimate target because it was the Alliance's largest installation. Furthermore, much of the city's civilian population had been evacuated because Baine had sent Perith to warn them. Yes, it was a truly devastating attack and I also will not try to excuse what the Korkron did to captive alliance members. The point I'm trying to make is that Alliance fans will screech to the heavens about bad things the Horde while also absolutely refuse to acknowledge any bad things the Alliance has done.

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the original plan was to simply capture the tree and occupy it; why did she burn it? she wanted to erase the night elves

She burned it because she wanted to cripple the Alliance's moral. Delaryn told her that Sylvanas can't kill hope and so she decided to burn the tree to try and prove Delaryn wrong. A lot of Teldrassil's inhabitants escaped before the burning through portals. If her goal was to eradicate the Kaldorei specifically, then she would have continued marching south to destroy all Kaldorei settlements on the west coast of Kalimdor.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Yes.

The game narrative wants to depict the horde as honorable and misunderstood, but their actions are a continuous bloodthirsty mess. Especially during BfA there was an incredible split between what they wanted the horde to represent and what the horde actually did, and what they actually did was following yet another crazed leader and using it as an excuse to commit atrocities.

Of course, conveniently, Sylvanas was thrown out (or rather, left on her own accord, because gods forbid she has to do something she doesn't want to, eh?) with a fanfare, when an army was stationed at the city gates, so that the rest of the faction could wash off the blame like they did in SoO.

I have briefly leveled a horde char after playing the alliance campaign and I was utterly baffled at the crap NPCs believed in Dazar'alor about horde morals, it was like talking to people in an asylum.

So yes, the horde is evil, but they will always weasel their way out of every bs they pull, so why even bother.

[Ardenaso]

She burned it because she wanted to cripple the Alliance's moral. Delaryn told her that Sylvanas can't kill hope and so she decided to burn the tree to try and prove Delaryn wrong. A lot of Teldrassil's inhabitants escaped before the burning through portals. If her goal was to eradicate the Kaldorei specifically, then she would have continued marching south to destroy all Kaldorei settlements on the west coast of Kalimdor.

kinda, there were missions were you slaughter evacuees in Exodar

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Yes.

The game narrative wants to depict the horde as honorable and misunderstood, but their actions are a continuous bloodthirsty mess. Especially during BfA there was an incredible split between what they wanted the horde to represent and what the horde actually did, and what they actually did was following yet another crazed leader and using it as an excuse to commit atrocities.

Of course, conveniently, Sylvanas was thrown out (or rather, left on her own accord, because gods forbid she has to do something she doesn't want to, eh?) with a fanfare, when an army was stationed at the city gates, so that the rest of the faction could wash off the blame like they did in SoO.

I have briefly leveled a horde char after playing the alliance campaign and I was utterly baffled at the crap NPCs believed in Dazar'alor about horde morals, it was like talking to people in an asylum.

So yes, the horde is evil, but they will always weasel their way out of every bs they pull, so why even bother.

I just want my WC3 Horde back; the Horde Council looks like it's gonna be an Alliance puppet leadership

[loras]

i personally play on both factions, i honestly find the faction conflict to be completely moronic and forced at this point. and it should have been completely ended at the end of MoP.

however, i find it funny that some alliance players use the whole "it was done by defectors" fairly often so its okay. yet wrathgate, which was always considered to have been done by defectors until they had to make sylvanas look even worse - like she needed help there - was done by defectors, and horde was always blamed. the player faction of horde are also defectors that went after garrosh and sylvanas for their evil deeds, but they are still considered the evil ones by many alliance.

eh whatever. the whole thing is stupid anyway. lets murder eachother and weaken our forces when weve worked together several times the save the planet. especially when we know there are bigger deadlier threats out there that could come at any moment. at this point we deserve to be wiped out by the next threat that shows up.

after all, its world of WARcraft, which means we have to be at war with horde and alliance. its impossible to be at war with other threats!

I don't think the alliance blames the horde for the incident so much as they do Sylvanas for making it possible, that plague was devised under her orders if you'll recall and cooperation with unchained demons is frowned upon in the Horde no less than in the Alliance.
If anything i was somewhat surprised to see how easy the horde trusted her again after that fiasco, but given how she had the most experience versus the Lich King of any of them it might have been mostly pragmatic.
Besides it had rather much worse consequences than a few dead beefies.

Also it would be good to recall that Azeroth's fate is moot to the fallen, there is no point to cooperation after genocide.

[Cwimge]

Horde have been unapologetic monsters for several times longer then not. They started in genocide and demonic magic, set every bar for war crimes and unconscionable behavior. So much so that they should all be going to join arthas upon death, so ruined should their collective spirit be

[Kiri]

Horde rebelled against Sylvanas and Garosh who were only supported by loyalists/Korkron just a part of undead and orcs were in for this.
Horde consists of orcs, goblins, trolls, belfs, taurens, highmountain, pandaren, vulpera, nighbourne, Zandalar trolls and Draenor orcs now. Most of them had nothing to do with "Horde" atrocities so saying that Horde as a whole is evil is plain wrong.

I am not quite sure why you quoted me there, maybe you have the wrong person here? I didn't exactly speak about horde atrocities much at all, just mentioned how the comparison made in the post I replied to didn't really work. Though, admittedly, I have a few issues with the "only a few supported Sylvanas and Garrosh" argument. Pretty much everyone, including Highmountain Tauren and even Saurfang himself still supported Sylvanas after the burning of the tree, for example, and throughout most of the war campaign. I am not saying those who did are 'evil', but they still supported Sylvanas throughout most of her tenure as warchief, even if they did not agree with her. They could have left the Undercity and the Undead to fend for themselves after Teldrassil, for example, but chose to fight and kill for Sylvanas even after what she did. It's a complex situation, of course, and a blanket term like 'evil' does not really do it justice. But neither does absolving them of everything just because eventually they rebelled.

What Jaina and the Silver Covenant was doing was atrocious and innocent blood elves were trying to get away from them. Jaina casually walked through Dalaran through the questline with her elementals straight up murdering fleeing blood elves and imprisoning others. What happened was heinous and vile. I'm sick of Alliance fans brushing it off by saying "The Silver Covenant aren't Alliance". they are definitely allies and Jaina IS part of the Alliance.

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Considering she strolled through Dalaran killing blood elves simply for having the audacity to BE a blood elf, I'm gonna go ahead say she most certainly is a monster. She also fully intended to completely wipe out Orgrimmar before her dragon boyfriend stopped her. But Alliance fans never want to admit that.

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She wasn't eradicating the Kaldorei. She was forcing them to flee during an act of war. If Sylvanas really wanted all the Kaldorei dead, she would have simply started plague bombing all those places.

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The Alliance fired on goblin ships fleeing from Kezan because they were witnesses to the Alliance capturing Thrall. So the Alliance ships were ordered to attack the goblin refugee ships in order to cover up the kidnapping.

Oh, I see. I still don't quite get why the Alliance would even try to abduct Thrall at that point anyway, but I guess it's par for the course that the Alliance gets stupid evil moments for no reason in Horde starting zones to justify the animosity. Just like what happens in the Belf starting zone doesn't really make much sense either (unless one subscribes to the theory that Staglhelm orchestrated that as an agent of Rag).

Though I think I can explain why Alliance players tend to not see the Purge of Dalaran the same way. You see, the scenario where that happens ingame is actually different for Horde and Alliance.

Horde: Jaina runs around nuking every Sunreaver in sight to death
Alliance: Jaina runs around imprisoning and teleporting every Sunreaver she sees, only using violence against those taking up arms.

So, if you primarily play Alliance, Jaina doesn't come across as a vengeful murderer committing atrocities, but as someone who imprisons potential traitors for the most part. It's still iffy, yes, but due to what I said before, it is kind of understandable anyway. But it is a very different experience in that regard between the two scenarios. It is very similar to, say, the assault on Vol'Dun in BFA. Horde quests there deal with alliance forces exterminating Vulpera with extreme prejudice. As an Alliance player, you don't really get to see that, instead having world quests specifically talking about scaring the Vulpera out of helping the Horde, but not really through murder.

You really should not be sick of Alliance players not seeing those actions in the same light because they literally do not get to see them in the same light. That's why discussions of that topic tend to go nowhere, because we have contradictory facts to base arguments on here. There is no "you are wrong, this is what happened" because all the accounts we have of the events are deliberately biased stories by those who were there. And that is what you should rather be sick of. The writers themselves stoking the conflict in-game and outside of it by giving out misleading info.

[AtomR]

Whatever your opinion with individual characters and races story arcs it's kind of obvious they are always or mostly always written as the villains. BFA was not the story of how the Horde was working against their leader but the story of how a select few tried and succeeded in undermining it's leader and the support of the majority. Sylvanas was driven away from the horde because she was tricked into admitting she doesn't care about the horde. That was the only reason the horde stopped supporting (did they?) That does not change the fact that the horde was all in with her crimes.
This is almost the same as in MoP with Garrosh. A small faction of the horde opposed and helped defeat the criminal Horde. But that does not make the Horde less criminal than it did a few Germans working against Hitler made Germany not criminally responsible for the holocaust and all other crimes of WWII (aka Evil).

In the context of the warcraft universe the horde is evil. It's people not all.

[loras]

Horde have been unapologetic monsters for several times longer then not. They started in genocide and demonic magic, set every bar for war crimes and unconscionable behavior. So much so that they should all be going to join arthas upon death, so ruined should their collective spirit be

Would be interesting if we encounter a "spirit of the Horde" in the maw, and then maybe give the horde a chance to save it and send it to Revendreth, heh.

[Raisei]

No. She also wandered around with her elementals killing blood elves indiscriminately. A lot of them had the fleeing animation going when it happened. And it's also said that shopkeepers were killed despite them having no connection to the Sunreavers. Oh and then there was the the people feeding blood elves to the shark in the Underbelly. So you're incredibly wrong about what went down in the questchain.

Probably the Horde quest chain was different so it looks that way. Much like the Rastakhan scene.

Theramore was a legitimate target because it was the Alliance's largest installation.

So is Orgrimmar. Meaning Jaina's attack was legitimate, no?

Furthermore, much of the city's civilian population had been evacuated because Baine had sent Perith to warn them.

And, as I said, those civilian refugees were then captured by the Horde. Tortured, killed and displayed. Your very own Path of Glory.

Yes, it was a truly devastating attack and I also will not try to excuse what the Korkron did to captive alliance members. The point I'm trying to make is that Alliance fans will screech to the heavens about bad things the Horde while also absolutely refuse to acknowledge any bad things the Alliance has done.

Probably this is because all the bad things the Alliance has done put together do not even outweigh halve of Teldrassil.

Yes, there have been mistakes. Taurajo surely was one and is fully acknowledged as such. But it simply does not compare in any way to the atrocities the Horde has commited in the last few years alone. It doesn't even compare to something as small as Brennadam, since the Alliance fully intended to spare the civilian tauren while the Horde in Brenadam nailed civilians to barn doors in front of their children.

And many of the bad things the Alliance has done happened as a reaction to Horde agression. The near drowning of Orgrimmar being such a case. Garrosh nuked an Alliance city, belonging to one of the most powerful mages on Azeroth, what did he think would happen? If Orgrimmar had been destroyed it would have been his fault and no one else's.

But you know what the worst about that is? Jaina would have hated herself more then anyone ever could for it (she does regret the Purge after all now), while Garrosh reveled in his atrocities like the evil bastard he is. This alone should make you realize who is on the right side.

Garrosh was a villian, a murderer and madman, Sylvanas is even worse then him and both of them were supported by the Horde until the very end, when they openly turned on the Horde itself. No amount of digging into the 2-3 bad things the Alliance has done will change that.

[bowlink]

Probably the Horde quest chain was different so it looks that way. Much like the Rastakhan scene.



So is Orgrimmar. Meaning Jaina's attack was legitimate, no?



And, as I said, those civilian refugees were then captured by the Horde. Tortured, killed and displayed. Your very own Path of Glory.



Probably this is because all the bad things the Alliance has done put together do not even outweigh halve of Teldrassil.

Yes, there have been mistakes. Taurajo surely was one and is fully acknowledged as such. But it simply does not compare in any way to the atrocities the Horde has commited in the last few years alone. It doesn't even compare to something as small as Brennadam, since the Alliance fully intended to spare the civilian tauren while the Horde in Brenadam nailed civilians to barn doors in front of their children.

And many of the bad things the Alliance has done happened as a reaction to Horde agression. The near drowning of Orgrimmar being such a case. Garrosh nuked an Alliance city, belonging to one of the most powerful mages on Azeroth, what did he think would happen? If Orgrimmar had been destroyed it would have been his fault and no one else's.

But you know what the worst about that is? Jaina would have hated herself more then anyone ever could for it (she does regret the Purge after all now), while Garrosh reveled in his atrocities like the evil bastard he is. This alone should make you realize who is on the right side.

Garrosh was a villian, a murderer and madman, Sylvanas is even worse then him and both of them were supported by the Horde until the very end, when they openly turned on the Horde itself. No amount of digging into the 2-3 bad things the Alliance has done will change that.

Oh don't bother you can point that big red nose of horde all you want, they'll never see it. Either because they don't want to see it, or worse genuinly can't tell right from wrong.