The soul of Argus

[tommyhil622]

So when we killed Argus the unmaker where did his soul go? Is there a pocket dimension for him and other deceased titans and titanforged go? Perhaps in an obscure region of the shadowlands or their own shadowlands type domain?

[rayvio]

I'd imagine there'd be something, and the fact that the Jailer wants the World Soul of Azeroth suggests they do have a connection to the Shadowlands else he'd presumably find it impossible to obtain

[Aucald]

We don't really know - it may have gone to the Shadowlands, or it may have gone elsewhere. Shadowlands may touch on what death means for Titans, but if so we've not yet gotten to that point.

[Houle]

the primus mentions something called the "sepulcher", which we apparently need to keep the jailer out of at all costs
my theory is that this sepulcher is where the souls of dead "gods"/godlike beings go

[DarkTZeratul]

I'm not even certain we DID kill him. As I recall there's no death animation, he just hits 0 hp and it cuts straight to the Pantheon ganking Sargeras.

[Unholyground]

I'd imagine there'd be something, and the fact that the Jailer wants the World Soul of Azeroth suggests they do have a connection to the Shadowlands else he'd presumably find it impossible to obtain

Well that is why they shattered the barrier as their plan B since using Arthas failed big time and Bolvar was too strong. Once he is powerful enough to break his chains he can literally just leap into Azeroth, and I hope he breaks free before we can fight him and ends up there before we get back, give him a good year to wreak havok on Azeroth to change the land for the next revamp which is clearly coming. Also time moves differently in the Shadowlands so there is a very good chance a decent amount of time will have passed before we are able to get back canonically so shit is gonna be fucked up.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

the primus mentions something called the "sepulcher", which we apparently need to keep the jailer out of at all costs
my theory is that this sepulcher is where the souls of dead "gods"/godlike beings go

That or weapons or something that are as dangerous as a rogue titan. Thats speculation so...don't take it as fact. I do think we might learn more about Titans and what their relation is with death(Where do they go and well rebirth if thats involved as well).

[Darknessvamp]

Do Titans even die? I mean originally the Pantheon were "killed" but their spirits survived where their bodies were destroyed yet they were so weak that when they ran to Azeroth (for whatever reason) they were absorbed by the Titan Keepers upon "fusing" rather than whatever other outcome was intended...

But then as of Legion their spirits survived apparently (with even Eonar actually having actually been hiding somewhere else all this time as a spirit) and they were able to reform their bodies almost instantly after being freed (as was Aggramar even though we had also "killed" him). So who's to say Argus actually died and isn't just haunting the Pantheon?

[Uthan]

Only "mortal" souls go to the Shadowlands when they die (as well as beings of the Shadowlands if killed outside of it). There's been a few different interviews such as this one where it's been explained that just like how demons return to their home plane (the twisting nether) when killed, the same applies to beings of other cosmic forces such as the Naaru and the Titans (who supposedly have a native plane somewhere).

[tommyhil622]

the primus mentions something called the "sepulcher", which we apparently need to keep the jailer out of at all costs
my theory is that this sepulcher is where the souls of dead "gods"/godlike beings go

would be interesting if thats what Primus meant.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not even certain we DID kill him. As I recall there's no death animation, he just hits 0 hp and it cuts straight to the Pantheon ganking Sargeras.

Technically he survived our fight but the Titans used the last bit of his energies along with their own to seal Sargeras away, Argus is dead.

[Houle]

That or weapons or something that are as dangerous as a rogue titan. Thats speculation so...don't take it as fact. I do think we might learn more about Titans and what their relation is with death(Where do they go and well rebirth if thats involved as well).

yeah, thats why i said its just a theory :P
maybe its even where the first ones rest or some shit

[TickTickTick]

Only "mortal" souls go to the Shadowlands when they die (as well as beings of the Shadowlands if killed outside of it). There's been a few different interviews such as this one where it's been explained that just like how demons return to their home plane (the twisting nether) when killed, the same applies to beings of other cosmic forces such as the Naaru and the Titans (who supposedly have a native plane somewhere).

Exactly what I was thinking. It doesn't make sense for beings of some cosmic plane to end up in the Death plane when they "die".

With us, mortals, things are different. We start on the plane of reality, we don't belong anywhere. I suppose if our "soul" is left untouched, it travels to Shadowlands, but we can speculate that it can travel elsewhere (like this paladin in Icecrown that was "saved" by Na'aru, or being infused with fel).

So in Argus' case, I think after his death he travelled either to the Order plane or Fel plane. Having everyone and everything end up in Shadowlands sooner or later would make this plane the most powerful and, honestly, would make no sense why this plane hasn't dominated the other ones yet...

... unless that's the Jailer's plan. Maybe all the souls do travel to Shadowlands, but Arbiter would then send them off to their respective planes to preserve balance between them? And the Jailer wants to consume them all to be so powerful that not only he has dominion over the realm of death, but also the others?

[tommyhil622]

Exactly what I was thinking. It doesn't make sense for beings of some cosmic plane to end up in the Death plane when they "die".

With us, mortals, things are different. We start on the plane of reality, we don't belong anywhere. I suppose if our "soul" is left untouched, it travels to Shadowlands, but we can speculate that it can travel elsewhere (like this paladin in Icecrown that was "saved" by Na'aru, or being infused with fel).

So in Argus' case, I think after his death he travelled either to the Order plane or Fel plane. Having everyone and everything end up in Shadowlands sooner or later would make this plane the most powerful and, honestly, would make no sense why this plane hasn't dominated the other ones yet...

... unless that's the Jailer's plan. Maybe all the souls do travel to Shadowlands, but Arbiter would then send them off to their respective planes to preserve balance between them? And the Jailer wants to consume them all to be so powerful that not only he has dominion over the realm of death, but also the others?

Hey unfortunately the cosmology chart gives the impression like there's a Order Plane or a Fel Plane.

From Chronicles alone, there is no Order Plane. The "Fel Plane" is the twisting nether. Demons go there when they die, but that's something unique to them. Mortals go in general to the Shadowlands. Naaru do have a plane they go to, and there's a void region. Etc. But from what we know, there is no "order plan" or "disorder" plane etc.

But I do agree it would make some sense if there is one cause they do have souls so one think they have to go somewhere?

[Lady Atia]

Hey unfortunately the cosmology chart gives the impression like there's a Order Plane or a Fel Plane.

From Chronicles alone, there is no Order Plane. The "Fel Plane" is the twisting nether. Demons go there when they die, but that's something unique to them. Mortals go in general to the Shadowlands. Naaru do have a plane they go to, and there's a void region. Etc. But from what we know, there is no "order plan" or "disorder" plane etc.

But I do agree it would make some sense if there is one cause they do have souls so one think they have to go somewhere?

Well, we know at least there is some kind of arcane plane - as Aluneth came from there.

[loras]

So when we killed Argus the unmaker where did his soul go? Is there a pocket dimension for him and other deceased titans and titanforged go? Perhaps in an obscure region of the shadowlands or their own shadowlands type domain?

Well titans do seem to spawn in the material plane, and despite their inclination towards order can shift to chaos in a process not dissimilar to how others mortals can become i.e. lightforged, so perhaps they have more in common with us than we'd think.

So i'd think they'd go to the shadowlands if they truly die, yeah.

[tommyhil622]

Well, we know at least there is some kind of arcane plane - as Aluneth came from there.

Aluneth is told to be from some other plane of existence but it's not very clear from where. It's orgins are quite clouded sadly. But it anything is possible in the future if they reveal more of this.

- - - Updated - - -

Well titans do seem to spawn in the material plane, and despite their inclination towards order can shift to chaos in a process not dissimilar to how others mortals can become i.e. lightforged, so perhaps they have more in common with us than we'd think.

So i'd think they'd go to the shadowlands if they truly die, yeah.

That's interesting. Like some sort of unfinished buisness.

Imo i don't think if we see Varian that it will be in that form. Perhaps a vision could be granted of some kind that allows him to see his father and interact with him or something along those lines.

The other part of this is that Anduin may not be in the position to make that choice. In the beta Bolvar and the others give the impression like we must keep going on about our business, working in the shadowlands and if the opportunity presents itself to save Anduin we will get there etc. So i think he's staying in the maw for a while, perhaps till a later content patch. By then it's possible they may turn him into that "weapon" or he would be corrupted, or he could stick it out like Bolvar, not sure. But in they end i assume he could probably make a sacrifice but more to help the "maw walker" in advancing the cause to defeat Slyvannas and by extension, the Jailer.

But i still think the true purpose of all this is to have a thread to the next threat post Shadowlands.

[Uthan]

Per the interview with Steve Danuser by Taliesin and Evitel a while back:

"You will as you play Shadowlands you'll start understanding that there are certain rules in place for the cosmos and the shadowlands is built specifically as a place for mortal souls to go, or souls that are of death magic in a way, in the same way that demons when you kill them on Azeroth they went back to disorder, to the twisting nether, to all of that, so these are kind of some of the rules of our universe that we go by and if you look at those rules that we've established before and that we are laying the groundwork for here you can start kind of piecing some things together and maybe even might speculate about certain other ways that these interact with and how those beings of other cosmic forces, what might happen to them when they've been killed."

"So if it is only for mortal races and I don't know what the actual status of the Titans is, because what you've said was fascinating but like most people in chat probably got stuck a little bit on titan homeworld when you said that. That's the headline here. Are you saying that Titans wouldn't be found in the Shadowlands, they wouldn't die and head there they might have somewhere else?"

"So what I would say is that, the nature of a being, of a magical being. So I kind of make two big distinctions between magical beings and mortal beings. Mortal beings are what we see in the mortal realm where Azeroth is and worlds like Draenor and other worlds where we've either slightly visited or that could still be out there that we haven't seen yet. So they have, there's a set of rules for mortal beings and then there's a set of rules for magical beings. And I would say that the demons of the Burning Legion, the REAL demons, like they we've seen what happens to them by those rules and so maybe you would project upon that what happens to beings of other cosmic influences when they have died. Maybe there is other places that they go."

There was also mention of a titan homeworld or home plane existing but us simply not having seen anything of it yet.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Hey unfortunately the cosmology chart gives the impression like there's a Order Plane or a Fel Plane.

From Chronicles alone, there is no Order Plane. The "Fel Plane" is the twisting nether. Demons go there when they die, but that's something unique to them. Mortals go in general to the Shadowlands. Naaru do have a plane they go to, and there's a void region. Etc. But from what we know, there is no "order plan" or "disorder" plane etc.

But I do agree it would make some sense if there is one cause they do have souls so one think they have to go somewhere?

The Disorder realm would be the Twisting Nether and who knows whats there we haven't seen. Naaru return to the Light Old Gods go back to the Void or any Void entity. No idea where Titans go but so far only two titans "died" (Argus and the world soul Sargeras killed to "save" him/her from the void). So..who knows what happened with them.

[Alteiry]

I'm not even certain we DID kill him. As I recall there's no death animation, he just hits 0 hp and it cuts straight to the Pantheon ganking Sargeras.

No, he slumps forward and hits the ground a second before the cinematic plays.

[tommyhil622]

The Disorder realm would be the Twisting Nether and who knows whats there we haven't seen. Naaru return to the Light Old Gods go back to the Void or any Void entity. No idea where Titans go but so far only two titans "died" (Argus and the world soul Sargeras killed to "save" him/her from the void). So..who knows what happened with them.

Yea technically in the chart, yes the twisting nether is part of it. But it's not a the realm of disorder if that make sense. It's just in the section that is relegated to disorder. We are saying the same thing in the general sense but there is a difference. Meaning not every entity relegated to disorder in the cosmology chart will go the twisting nether.

But yea in general we don't know where the Titans go but it would be interesting if there's a connection between what happened with Argus's soul and the whats' currently occurring in the shadowlands.

- - - Updated - - -

No, he slumps forward and hits the ground a second before the cinematic plays.

He dies after the Titans use his remaining power to seal Sargeras, Illidan and themselves away.