[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Dakhath]

Ive had pretty bad experiences joining FC in FF14, I played solo the first time I went through the game but then in 5.3 I tried rolling on a new data center and the first FC I joined was all memes and anime, which is not for me but its not a shock considering the game so I dipped out. Then I joined another that stylized itself a small and friendly FC who valued the interpersonal relationships within so I figured I'd give it a go. I was welcomed warmly and apologized if I don't talk a lot when I'm leveling as I tend to get super focused on things of that nature and then the GM or whatever its called in FF14 sent me messages in private on discord saying she was recently sexually assaulted so she understands not talking much. This was about 2 hours after I joined so this was WAYYYYYY too much info for me. I'm sure there are good groups out there on Crystal, but I haven't had much luck. The people in duty finder are generally pretty friendly though.

[Katchii]

3rded™
Ever since I retired from raiding savage, I too value the flexibility FF is giving me.
I rarely have contact with random players though. Too much tiptoeing required, so I stick to my circle of friends (most of them are from the raid I retired from).

The only "tiptoeing" I feel is when I get into a group and there's someone who is legitimately terrible, and I feel like I can't say anything. Few times do I speak up and give pointers. In those situations it's usually met with silence, a thank you or the rare "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" bullshit, at which point I just put them on ignore and say, OK buddy, initiate a vote kick for harassment and move on. It's VERY rare where it's SO bad that it becomes frustrating though. Many times it's just a "well, this player isn't very good" and the dungeon takes a few extra minutes, which isn't that big of a deal to me.

On those rare occasions though, like @Wrecktangle and his famous Shield Lob only Paladin story, the entire group is commenting, telling them to go look at a guide, to stop wasting other people's time and if (usually not "if" though, lol) they get aggressive and lippy about it they end up getting kicked for harassment and are replaced.

As I said though, those situations are extremely rare for me, I only do maybe 2-4 dungeons in a day through roulettes and only for leveling. I don't usually do the Experts, as I just don't care that much about end game gearing, just about having a high enough gear level to do the story related dungeons each patch.

[Wrecktangle]

The only "tiptoeing" I feel is when I get into a group and there's someone who is legitimately terrible, and I feel like I can't say anything. Few times do I speak up and give pointers. In those situations it's usually met with silence, a thank you or the rare "YOU DON'T PAY MY SUB" bullshit, at which point I just put them on ignore and say, OK buddy, initiate a vote kick for harassment and move on. It's VERY rare where it's SO bad that it becomes frustrating though. Many times it's just a "well, this player isn't very good" and the dungeon takes a few extra minutes, which isn't that big of a deal to me.

On those rare occasions though, like @Wrecktangle and his famous Shield Lob only Paladin story, the entire group is commenting, telling them to go look at a guide, to stop wasting other people's time and if (usually not "if" though, lol) they get aggressive and lippy about it they end up getting kicked for harassment and are replaced.

As I said though, those situations are extremely rare for me, I only do maybe 2-4 dungeons in a day through roulettes and only for leveling. I don't usually do the Experts, as I just don't care that much about end game gearing, just about having a high enough gear level to do the story related dungeons each patch.

Nah, the real scary thing of this game is that the terrible players aren't even the WORST players. It's the lazy and deliberately obtuse ones that really infuriate me.

Great example. From a DPS perspective you can push almost ANY buttons you want as long as you push them on cooldown and use AOE for AOE and ST for ST and do respectable output. That's how this game is designed. You won't be great, but you will do expansion relevant damage with ANY job 100% of the time and NOT A SINGLE good player will give you a hard time over this.

The problem is that there is an overwhelmingly large amount of players in this game who are tired and jaded and know they can be lazy because they're not held accountable. This is why I have players in 25% of my roulettes or content who do damage despite not dying do equivalent damage that I was doing not one expansion ago, but sometimes 2 or 3.

I even tested it myself for science. I went in to some random 24 man and literally afk'd almost the entire thing. I pushed a button maybe every 15 or so seconds and did less damage than a few healers (note, not all) and was straight bottom damage. Rightfully so some called me out on it, and people JUMPED to my defense and called them out for being toxic. It was revolting and sickening to me. I should have been kicked, honestly twice for good measure.

The shield lob story is a great one because not only is it comical, but it made the official forums on 2 separate situations (the daily roulette thread where I vented about it) and the one the person in question made about being harassed. The sheer number of replies were stark. There were either people who agreed with me or people who agreed with the OP. Very few in the middle. I love how people connected the dots and put the two threads together. That was my favorite.

[Soikona]

I gotta see this shield story! Got a link?

[Katchii]

I gotta see this shield story! Got a link?

It's on the official forums, I'll try and find it.

I tried looking for it and I don't have enough details about the post to be able to find it in the ocean of posts on the official forums. Sorry =(

[Xilurm]

Nothing is further from the truth. This game is full of the most carebeary snowflake liberal babies I’ve ever witnessed in any game community. This game is full of “grown” men who want to play games as literal Barbies in pink dresses. It’s fuckijg appalling

What is it about this game that attracts these adult children?

The community probably. I assume they heard about this and just flock to a place where they'd feel "safe". Like with Twitter for example.

[Graeham]

The community probably. I assume they heard about this and just flock to a place where they'd feel "safe". Like with Twitter for example.

Twitter is, unfortunately, the game's target audience. The community representatives who are supposed to operate on the official forum spend their time on Twitter instead - which leads to them gathering feedback from a very biased source. Furthermore, a lot of people on the official forum were banned over the years due to an unreasonably strict set of rules. Simply disagreeing with someone in a blunt manner is enough to get in trouble with the moderators there.

The unofficial communities such as Reddit aren't any better. There's a bunch of nutjobs there who sent me death threats for...liking the 'wrong' character.

[Granyala]

As I said though, those situations are extremely rare for me, I only do maybe 2-4 dungeons in a day through roulettes and only for leveling. I don't usually do the Experts, as I just don't care that much about end game gearing, just about having a high enough gear level to do the story related dungeons each patch.

Yeah DF content is fine. I was referring to actually using the party finder to do savage etc. Stuff that mandated performance and communication.
I could never be arsed to do that, neither in WoW not in FF. It was either "my guild/raid goes in or I don't see the content".

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The unofficial communities such as Reddit aren't any better. There's a bunch of nutjobs there who sent me death threats for...liking the 'wrong' character.

WTF... did you dare to deviate from the kitty masterrace or what?

[Graeham]

WTF... did you dare to deviate from the kitty masterrace or what?

Reddit didn't like me pointing out that not every single Imperial was a terrible person who deserved to be slaughtered.

I pointed to Regula and Gaius as examples.

[Katchii]

Yeah DF content is fine. I was referring to actually using the party finder to do savage etc. Stuff that mandated performance and communication.
I could never be arsed to do that, neither in WoW not in FF. It was either "my guild/raid goes in or I don't see the content".

My experience as well. Every random party finder experience I've ever had has been...less than ideal, to say the least. Everyone who's tried it knows exactly what I'm talking about.

WTF... did you dare to deviate from the kitty masterrace or what?

I'm sure it depends on which thread it's in. As with any toxic fandom, there's a few "correct" characters and the rest are considered blasphemous for whatever stupid reason.

That said, pretty sure all of them agree on Y'shtola.

[Granyala]

I pointed to Regula and Gaius as examples.

Ifalna always liked Gaius. She never knew why.

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That said, pretty sure all of them agree on Y'shtola.

She's my favorite. :3

[StrawberryZebra]

You're not the only one.

The average FFXIV player is too shy, too easily offended, too manipulative and too flaky for me to get along with. My partner shares my frustration - so we sit comfortably in a two person Free Company.

Some of this can be explained by demographics. Younger, less secure, players tend to be shy and flaky - Especially with people outside of their own age groups. We all have those awkward growing pains to deal with at some point, it's just a fact of growing up.

Being easilly ofended is a much bigger issue. I don't intentionally go out of my way to offend and upset people, but sometimes being open and honest has the same effect. People who aren't able to handle that aren't going to be people I want to surround myself with.

I guess I'm pretty lucky then. People talk about toxicity in WoW, but I never really saw any drama in the LFRs or PUGs. Never really seen any drama in FFXIV either. The FC I raid with is pretty chill.

Honestly, I pretty much never see any serious toxicity in WoW. I almost never see any in LoL or Dota. It could just be because I have a high tolerance for that kind of thing, but usually what gets written off as "Toxic" I find tends to be players who are either not getting what they want out of the game or players who are raising concerns.

I've never really considered anything to be completely out of line since some of the smack talk way back in CS 1.6 that got out of hand. I don't know. Your milage may vary.

Ive had pretty bad experiences joining FC in FF14, I played solo the first time I went through the game but then in 5.3 I tried rolling on a new data center and the first FC I joined was all memes and anime, which is not for me but its not a shock considering the game so I dipped out.

This has largely been my experiences too. FF14 players tend to be in Anime, Cosplay and similar interests. It tends to make for quite an insular community, and a difficult one to fit into for those who don't share those hobbies.

It goes both ways. I don't get Anime, but other players don't seem to get me either when I talk about Star Wars, books I've read or Magic the Gathering etc.

The only "tiptoeing" I feel is when I get into a group and there's someone who is legitimately terrible, and I feel like I can't say anything.

This is the other big reason I don't fit in well with FF14 players. I don't tiptoe around issues, I deal with them. I'll point out that we wiped because the healer died to a mechanic, or we need to do XYZ to beat the boss. Not in a high and mighty kind of way, just a simple "You need to stand out of LOS for X, group up for Y and spread for Z". I offer people solutions, not abuse. Even if I have to put markers on the floor or and make macros telling them what to do for each mechanic, I'll give people every opportunity to take things on board.

Those times where I have had to remove people from the group for being genuinely bad, I've always given the player in question feedback on what they were doing wrong and tried my best to show them the right way to do things. It's also usually after 8-10 wipes, so they've had plenty of time and opportunity to get it right.

Unfortunately like @Wrecktangle I've had a lot of bystanders jump on the bad players behalf. Usually for dumb reasons like "Toxicity". Which it isn't. When one player is holding back the rest of the group then I consider it the responsability of the better players to help educate and guide others. The first step to that is admitting that wiping because your Healers keep getting pushed off the cliff by Landslide is a problem for the whole group, not just to the Healers who are failing the mechanic, but also to the other 6 players who are wiping along with them.

[threads]

I guess I'm pretty lucky then. People talk about toxicity in WoW, but I never really saw any drama in the LFRs or PUGs. Never really seen any drama in FFXIV either. The FC I raid with is pretty chill.

same. i feel like the people who always talk about toxicity are actually part of the problem itself and must not realize it.

[Katchii]

This is the other big reason I don't fit in well with FF14 players. I don't tiptoe around issues, I deal with them. I'll point out that we wiped because the healer died to a mechanic, or we need to do XYZ to beat the boss. Not in a high and mighty kind of way, just a simple "You need to stand out of LOS for X, group up for Y and spread for Z". I offer people solutions, not abuse. Even if I have to put markers on the floor or and make macros telling them what to do for each mechanic, I'll give people every opportunity to take things on board.

Those times where I have had to remove people from the group for being genuinely bad, I've always given the player in question feedback on what they were doing wrong and tried my best to show them the right way to do things. It's also usually after 8-10 wipes, so they've had plenty of time and opportunity to get it right.

When it comes to mechanics, I'll always speak up. It's their damage, tanking or healing performance that I have a hard time speaking up about. If it's bad, but not so bad that we wipe and it just causes us to go slow, I usually don't speak up. If the tank isn't using tank stance, picking up adds, etc... or if the healer is letting peope die, not cleansing effects like doom (or healing to full to get rid of it), etc... I'll let them know.

Unfortunately like @Wrecktangle I've had a lot of bystanders jump on the bad players behalf. Usually for dumb reasons like "Toxicity". Which it isn't. When one player is holding back the rest of the group then I consider it the responsability of the better players to help educate and guide others. The first step to that is admitting that wiping because your Healers keep getting pushed off the cliff by Landslide is a problem for the whole group, not just to the Healers who are failing the mechanic, but also to the other 6 players who are wiping along with them.

I've rarely been called out for the advise or guidance I give. When I do, depending on how bad it is I just stop talking, put them on ignore, vote to kick the "bad one" or just leave if that doesn't work. I don't have the time, energy or desire to put up with that crap. It's not worth it.

[Granyala]

same. i feel like the people who always talk about toxicity are actually part of the problem itself and must not realize it.

It probably depends on the server.
In BGs people on my WoW serverpool were more busy fighting in chat than in the game. Was quite amusing at times.
I never saw much talking in LFRs or random dungeons besides the occasional Hi/Bye though.

I never bothered with PuG raids, mainly because I can't be arsed to progress an encounter anew every time I visit. I prefer my raid to learn it once, practice a few repeat kills and then have it on farm.

[Wrecktangle]

I gotta see this shield story! Got a link?

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ht-before-boss.

Enjoy.

[Granyala]

I always just chalk it up to how the genre runs you through the same "chores" so many times, so everyone is impatient about everything.

Agreed, compared to the early days, when everyone was learning and discovering, my patience with others is next to nonexistent.
Nowadays I just want to blitz through, hence why I run with friends.

[Xilurm]

Reddit didn't like me pointing out that not every single Imperial was a terrible person who deserved to be slaughtered.

I pointed to Regula and Gaius as examples.

So what are they going to do if we get a Garlemald expansion and find out that there's good Garleans who take our side?

Reminds me of when the official Star Wars did a poll and asked who you'd like to join, the rebels or w/e or the First Order. And comments went crazy about how everyone who chose first order is a nazi and doesn't deserve to live. They had to remove the poll in the end.

I wonder if the JP community has snowflakes like these.

[Graeham]

So what are they going to do if we get a Garlemald expansion and find out that there's good Garleans who take our side?

Reminds me of when the official Star Wars did a poll and asked who you'd like to join, the rebels or w/e or the First Order. And comments went crazy about how everyone who chose first order is a nazi and doesn't deserve to live. They had to remove the poll in the end.

I wonder if the JP servers are so snowflakey.

Japan is relatively sane on that front. Some of the popular characters are antagonists or straight up villains. They go crazy over Asahi, for example, who is completely rotten.

I don't think the people who use the 'NAZI' claim genuinely believe it. They just know most people panic and back down when it's used against them. Or they just stop responding altogether.

It's a shame, though. The official forum has a lore board and it used to be a pretty pleasant place to chat about the game's story. Yet a fair few posters went nuts whenever Garlemald or the Ascians were brought up.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

So what are they going to do if we get a Garlemald expansion and find out that there's good Garleans who take our side?

They'll probably be sympathetic to the "good Garleans".

I think people just think Garlemald is an evil empire because... well, so far the elements we've interacted with have been your usual evil empire stuff, with the handful of humanizing elements like Drex (that conscript who got trapped in Vylbrand and just wants to go back to his family) or Maxima are hardly given screentime and brushed to the way side. Regula is ostensibly a good general but we hardly get to see him in a friendly manner, only really seeing him when he was doing antagonist stuff.

All other "good" Garleans - Cid, Nero, Lucia - well they're not really Garleans anymore.

So far, the Bozja storyline has given us the most screentime of NOT EVIL Garleans, which is a shame because it's kinda treated as side material. You only get to read about the Garlean NPCs in their field notes, and they only have a little bit of dialogue in the Skirmishes, and that's it. Lyon and Menenius have had about 3 minutes of cutscene time so far, and Noah hasn't even appeared yet. Kinda sad that my favorite characterization of Garlean characters are in the field notes, and not in any NPCs you adventure with or talk to.

I kinda wish that FFXIV had gone the Trails of Cold Steel route, where the Empire weren't the bad guys. Yes, they had a bad history and bad rap with their neighbors, but they were people, just like any of the other nations. You had empire affiliated party members helping out and representing their country just as the republic or the various kingdoms had their characters as party members and helping out. Over the course of the series, you go to travel to adventure through every nation, kingdoms and republics, and the empire was no exception. The empire is probably the most fleshed out country we visited in Trails thus far.

Imagine if traveling to Garlemald was like traveling to Ishgard in Heavensward; you're not coming to defeat the evil Garleans. You're coming to help out people. Just like HW, you arrive in town, get to meet the characters, go adventuring around the region, and then eventually help these people remove a few bad apples who are in power. Imagine if you were attached to the Garlemald cast, just as much as to Haucherfant, or Aymeric, or knew them like Francel or Hilda or Lord Edmont and so on.

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also sad that the Garlean's endemic problem of not being able to wield aether has been completely swept under the rug. I'm not trying to victim blame the people who got annexed by the Garleans, but it seems like no one is acknowledging "oh yeah, these disadvantaged people were nearly driven to extinction. Ofcourse they are they were they are now; it's the only way they could have survived. Hm... maybe we should take that into account before history repeats itself?". Given the mentality of the people fighting against Garlemald, I'm sorta expecting a WW1 situation where the Alliance will come in, trash everything, and then leave without having actually solved the problem, only for history to repeat a few years later.