New baseline Death Coil & Death and Decay question

[Unholyground]

you already have death's caress

Death's Caress is less damage.

[jazen]

stealth finder is a good use of dnd

[Saltysquidoon]

Imagine being so into conspiracy theories that you, after listing legitimate reasons for a thing do be done, claim it's a "PR smokescreen". I want to know how your brain works if you think Blizzard thinks such a smokescreen is worth the effort.
How many would buy SL because of it, and be disappointed because it wasn't more than the reasons listed prior? A single person maybe?

1. What an amazing contribution to the thread.
2. This is coming from the person who was simping that it was ok for blizzard to recycle the mantle of the master assassin three expansions in a row.

[Segus1992]

1. What an amazing contribution to the thread.
2. This is coming from the person who was simping that it was ok for blizzard to recycle the mantle of the master assassin three expansions in a row.

Nice argument, I see you've learned nothing about staying on topic since then and still just resort to being toxic when you run out of things to say to make yourself believe you're right.

Death Coil being put back in the game has uses for all specs, niche or not. The game doesn't have to be optimally simple. You're allowed to be asked to think.

[bloodmoth13]

Death's Caress is less damage.

for the purpose of pulling and getting enemies attention it serves the purpose, and they use different resources.

[Unholyground]

for the purpose of pulling and getting enemies attention it serves the purpose, and they use different resources.

Exactly so it is just situational when you would use it, it would be nice though if Blood's version of Death Coil used a rune instead.

[Saltysquidoon]

Nice argument, I see you've learned nothing about staying on topic since then and still just resort to being toxic when you run out of things to say to make yourself believe you're right.

Death Coil being put back in the game has uses for all specs, niche or not. The game doesn't have to be optimally simple. You're allowed to be asked to think.

Toxic? I'm not the one who bumbled into a thread ignored the mini opinion I wrote about optimising a macro, contributed nothing, and accused someone of being a conspiracy theorist. Methinks the lady doth protest overmuch.

You're also missing the thrust of my argument (I would accuse you of being deliberately obtuse but that would be over charitable). The issue is not that DC has niche uses (which is more than can be said about many other unpruned abilities such as flametongue), the issue is not that a niche spell has be readded to the game (it never should have been removed). The issue is that blizzard is selling lazily readded spells as a feature of the expansion to capitalize on nostalgia while they're still riding the classic wave.

Exactly so it is just situational when you would use it, it would be nice though if Blood's version of Death Coil used a rune instead.

With all due respect, spending most a death strike to pull when we already have a tool that pulls using runes (which are infinitely less valuable) is almost never worth it.

[Bloodyleech]

Exactly so it is just situational when you would use it, it would be nice though if Blood's version of Death Coil used a rune instead.

Using up runic power as blood with DC is bad. It's just really bad. Using any RP not on DS/BS is a loss in dps AND selfsustain.
It's better to cap out runic power on range than using it for a low dps ability that costs you almost a DS.

[Unholyground]

Using up runic power as blood with DC is bad. It's just really bad. Using any RP not on DS/BS is a loss in dps AND selfsustain.
It's better to cap out runic power on range than using it for a low dps ability that costs you almost a DS.

Not if you are soloing stuff though it is nice to have it and it does decent damage. I mentioned soloing a few times lol.

[Bloodyleech]

Not if you are soloing stuff though it is nice to have it and it does decent damage. I mentioned soloing a few times lol.

Even when soloing it is worse than just holding to your RP for DS/BS, generating RP on range via Deaths Caress. Just facts, nothing else. If you enjoy it, do it.

[Unholyground]

Even when soloing it is worse than just holding to your RP for DS/BS, generating RP on range via Deaths Caress. Just facts, nothing else. If you enjoy it, do it.

I do enjoy it haha, it would be nice if there was a talent that made it better as an option, maybe have it do more damage and grant a bubble based on damage done.

[Gurg]

Its just part of uprunning which great Brian "The Unpruner" Holinka marketed at Blizzcon as "Feature" for this expansion.
That being said, yea, i understand why they needed to add back some class wide spells which would they then use for the purpose of covenant abilities.
The thing is.. that most of them are just annoying and clutter our spellbooks giving us the feel of "uprunning" when in reality they have niche usages, if any at all. At least on melee characters that i play. - toss an eye on rogue forum and QQ for unpruned Slice and Dice across whole spec.

Its the part of those abilities that have purpose, just not in your Combat rotation.

DnD - as people said, for Frost is extra RP generation before combat starts. If you are up for having it in your bars just for that. Or puling stealthies out of sneaky mode.
DC - again, as other people said, its a good tool for Frost and Blood for quick heal via Lichborne macro, or just for pulling if you are up for it. Or use Death's Caress/Howling Blast and save that RP for harder hitting melee ability.

Its really up to you, but they, as is, have a niche usage.

Personally, i have Coil macroed with Lichborne across all 3 specs. And ignore DnD on frost. since meh, one more button to press with underwhelming reaction/results.

Hunters mark yey!
Aimed Shot on Survival Hunter yey!

[Razion]

you already have death's caress

It costs a rune. When you're out of runes and you have RP and need to get snap aggro on a far-away target and Death's Grip and DnD are on CD, Death Coil is useful for Blood in this situation. Blood also has Dark Command to grab ranged aggro in a pinch, but this should probably be saved for taunt swap mechanics in raids and when not in raids it's more of a last resort due to it being your only real way to guarantee aggro as well as the CD on it compared to Death Coil which doesn't have a CD. Death Coil has the downside of not granting you the healing of Death Strike or the absorb shield from overhealing, but it's better than another member of the team getting hit.

[bloodmoth13]

It costs a rune. When you're out of runes and you have RP and need to get snap aggro on a far-away target and Death's Grip and DnD are on CD, Death Coil is useful for Blood in this situation. Blood also has Dark Command to grab ranged aggro in a pinch, but this should probably be saved for taunt swap mechanics in raids and when not in raids it's more of a last resort due to it being your only real way to guarantee aggro as well as the CD on it compared to Death Coil which doesn't have a CD. Death Coil has the downside of not granting you the healing of Death Strike or the absorb shield from overhealing, but it's better than another member of the team getting hit.

Honestly that is a LOT of conditions for this to be useful, and im not convinced its necessary at that point. Specs shoudnt have every tool for every situation.

[Razion]

Honestly that is a LOT of conditions for this to be useful, and im not convinced its necessary at that point. Specs shoudnt have every tool for every situation.

If you're arguing button bloat, Blood did used to have Death Coil baseline as an RP spender while Death Strike costed runes. Are you arguing to go back to this, or are you arguing just to get rid of Death Coil because you personally don't find it useful? Also, why do you think specs shouldn't have tools to deal with situations?

[deenman]

And yet, it should have never been removed to begin with.

Dont bother with his type,for some people if blizzard does X its bad,if blizzard doesnt do the same X its also bad,its politics 101

[bloodmoth13]

If you're arguing button bloat, Blood did used to have Death Coil baseline as an RP spender while Death Strike costed runes. Are you arguing to go back to this, or are you arguing just to get rid of Death Coil because you personally don't find it useful? Also, why do you think specs shouldn't have tools to deal with situations?

Wasnt making any argument either way, i think it could be incorporated into the spec, its an iconic death knight ability and i think it feels weird that only unholy use it. A free death coil proc could be fine, or maybe a talent or something idk, i was just arguing that 'its useful for pulling' isnt a great argument to bring it back when its actual use cases are minimal, and ultra niche abilities imo should be pruned.

[SirReal]

Wasnt making any argument either way, i think it could be incorporated into the spec, its an iconic death knight ability and i think it feels weird that only unholy use it. A free death coil proc could be fine, or maybe a talent or something idk, i was just arguing that 'its useful for pulling' isnt a great argument to bring it back when its actual use cases are minimal, and ultra niche abilities imo should be pruned.

I was with you until the bold part. Dude made a ridiculous case for it's viability and then started a random argument with himself and asked if you wanted to join. We all saw it....

That said, I kind of like that there's choice available for whatever the reason may be. It could be that @Razion's spreadsheet said all seven conditions were met for DC usage, it could be the person is not very good at the game (and makes silly arguments), or it could for the reason that you think the spell looks cool. Having DC in a random corner of one of your bars for a one off usage every now and then for flavor isn't all bad I don't think.

DC still sounds pretty specific to unholy with maybe 1 or 2 niche uses

[Saltysquidoon]

If you're arguing button bloat, Blood did used to have Death Coil baseline as an RP spender while Death Strike costed runes. Are you arguing to go back to this, or are you arguing just to get rid of Death Coil because you personally don't find it useful? Also, why do you think specs shouldn't have tools to deal with situations?

Because the situation you described is such a forum theoretical as to not be relevant?
Ther is no universe where you're going to have
Caress;
DnD;
Crimson scourge;
Taunt;
Grip;
Other grip;
blood drinker; and/or;
strangulate.
All on CD at the same time, need snap aggro inside a GCD and just be floating rp you don't need to live (especially at low haste levels). Literally, the only situation even close to this I could imagine where you're this tapped out would be if you're already tanking a massive pack.

Im not saying blood shouldn't have dc, I'm saying that even in this scenario you're better off saving the rp for DS and just walking to the mob or having it kited to you (further to this you should basically never have both no runes and capped rp as any spec but especially blood).

EDIT; BTW just to point out how rare it is to actually ever need to pull just a single mob, I've prog tanked inside top100 kills and my fair share of high m+ as blood and I don't even have caress on my bars.